Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

[Shodan486]

Hi guys!

I've got some hardtimes understand a few things. BadCaps guys here always recommend to replace the failing caps with better quality ones and of course, with the same attributes or above, such as more uF and voltage...I am to show the opposite in this thread and I'd like to ask for your clarification/approval.

Ya'll definitely know what the Abit VP6 looks like - 2 FC-PGAs, SDR, AGP...

So I have these 6 of them (I just love this one), including a one that has never been used and still has those Jackon caps (what a rare)...the other 5 have been already recapped - but differently ...

See this:

On this picture, I show the original one - the circled caps are the ones that have been replaced. I picked one of those 5 which behaves the best (and stable). And now we begin:

Red (for CPU & RAM & AGP): 1500uF 6.3v replaced by 2200uF 6.3v
Green (I guess for chipset): 1000uF 16v replaced by 2200uF 6.3v (!!!)
Purple (I guess for AGP & chipset): 1000uF 16V replaced by 1000uF 16v (better quality)

I am particularly concerned with the green couple (what is it for anyway?) and that's why I'm referring to the tradition of not replacing with lower attributes. I'm asking if this could be done and if it's okay...but partially, I have the answers on my hand right now:

1. It boots and runs

2. Since it is a board for PIIIs, I consider the PIII as the older CPU (correct me if wrong) which uses the 5v & 3.3v rails - there is no extra connector for 12v rail, which is used for the CPU (for example in P4 CPUs)

3. It behaves even more stable in OC'd status

I have my machine fully loaded (USB2.0, LAN, sound (PCI) and video card (AGP) inserted + HDD with DVD + some fans), 2x 1GHz @ 1245Mhz OC'd at 166MHz FSB, 41.5MHz PCI and 83MHz AGP. The SDR are Tonicom PC166 single-sided 128MB modules, so it's OK. I tried this config for about 1 hour playing Rainbow Six LV2 and no issues. The Vcore is at 1.85v and Vcc3.3 at 3.5v (but in real its 3.4v, if I raise it to the 3.6v, it's gonna be 3.5v - in Everest). Everest shows all basic rails OK but the 5v is quite lower than should be. When I boot into winxp and run everest, it shows 4.80-85v in idle, stress test lowers it to 4.61v - that doesn't seem right. The PS is Fortron Blue Storm II 500W. Any thoughts?

So what do you think? Is it ok in this board to leave it with those 6.3v instead of 16v? I suppose I'm right that PIIIs have no need to have 16v capacitors, but doesn't the board need those 16 volts? Please explain me this.

Just for fun: on another board, there are the 16v 1500uF replaced by better quality 16v 1500uF, but the system won't run stable unless I remove the LAN NIC and USB add-on card, though tested this only for 15 minutes, will try again. But the 6.3v 2200uF seem to be more stable - does this mean that higher capacitance equals to better stability?

Sorry not providing the brand of the caps, will post later.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

Oh HELL NO. - Not without checking!

The 16v caps there might be on +12v there.
That is the VRM input.
- Between the CPU Voltage Regualtor [VRM] and the power supply.

With a P3 it's hard to say if the actual voltage is +5v or +12v.
You will need to trace the circuit back to the PSU plug and see which pin it is or measure the voltage with a meter to know for sure.

Intel was recommending CPU's be powered by +12v instead of +5v way back in the i810/i815 days but many manufactures didn't do it until P4 came out.

A dual CPU server though is likely to use +12v.
.

[Shodan486]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

Well, I got this and 2 more boards from the same guy, hope he knew what he was doing when recapping. I also have to note that I browsed for few pictures of boards that I have owned before that did not use the extra 12v rail and they all have only 6.3v capacitors near MOSFETs/Coils/Caps (such as A7V600, Abit KT7 etc.), only PCI had some 25v, but that's a different matter. Also some of my boards like QDI celeron/pentium based are the same, no 16v caps. So I guess, and especially when it runs and runs better, it is okay to use them, of course I still am in a little doubt...One more question though!!!. It calls for basic electronic explenation: (on the board pictured above) Do I get it correctly that when I had a +12v rail connected to the mainboard, those 4 capacitors circled in green would each get their share from it? Like each of them gets +/- 3 volts to hold up?

[kc8adu]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

the only major caps on a vp6 that have to be 16v are the 2 rear edge center.
those are on +12 and are the input caps for the +3.3 vrm.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5844
this is my poly mod.
those cpu vrm input caps are mbz 2200@6.3.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

kc8adu knows that board so listen to him.

You can not use caps on a higher voltage [actual voltage] than they are rated for.
They will overheat and short internally.
That's WHY they HAVE a voltage rating.

[Shodan486]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

okay, so the ones in the green circle in my picture are OK to be 6.3v instead of 16v, right?...The 2 in center, you mean the ones close to the AGP slot, right?

[Shodan486]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

PCBONEZ, I DO understand you ...but I'm curious that it works, just that...Yes, I need someone who definitely knows this board, more opinions please !!

[370forlife]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

What brand did they recap it with?

I've seen recapped boards going on ebay, but the owners recap them with teapo.

[Shodan486]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

will check soon, in few hours when I get back home...but I think it's the Rubycon

[Shodan486]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

might be sanyo, it's green.

[370forlife]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

Looks like nichicon or samxon to me. Those are the only 2 reputable brands that use the X vent.

Sanyo and rubycon use a K vent, UCC/NCC use a three pronged vent, like a Mercedes logo. Panasonic uses a T vent with the top curved up at the edges.

[Shodan486]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

so it's teapo ...well, I've got to say, I'm more stable with them than sanyo (???)...guess they really went a bit higher with their quality...166mhz FSB for dual PIII is not bad...anyways, while overclocking really too much, I get BIOS checksum error and it resets it self to default on the next boot...can this have something with the little black caps down near the bios?...like not providing enough charge for the chips?

[i4004]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

no, you just went too high with overclocking...

>more opinions please !!

once you turn off the power, feel the cap(s) you suspect...they'll be hotter to the touch if they're running on more than rated voltage...

but by the look of things thus far it's ok...and if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

yes, they can put 16V instead of 6.3 in the factory, what's stopping them?
esp. if they just run out of 6.3V type...
then somebody puts 6.3 again, and there's no problem.

[Shodan486]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

yup, no thanks...I've got 3 boards that really need caps upgrade...those are not able to overclock so well, but yes thanks, I still think I can squeeze more from it using 3300uF caps...of course I may be not right, but it all looks like that anyway

[i4004]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

well, it's not like you'll do some mega-damage even if something goes wrong..i mean those boards are like...
i mean moses was writing Ten Commandments on such mobos, right?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

yup, no thanks...I've got 3 boards that really need caps upgrade...those are not able to overclock so well, but yes thanks, I still think I can squeeze more from it using 3300uF caps...of course I may be not right, but it all looks like that anyway

More uF improving performance is an old wives tale.
It doesn't help at all. - Lower ESR does.

Back when people started messing with this some would use higher uF caps as a mod and when they got good results they'd hoot'n'hollar all over about how more uF improved things. - They were competely oblivious to the fact that when they switched from el'crapo to good caps they lowered the ESR in the process. It was the lower ESR that helped, not more uF.
.

[Shodan486]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

so Teapo have usually lower ESR? but they're not that good quality as I read here all over.

[i4004]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

more capacitance usually also means lower esr...

ie same series of caps, one 2200 other 3300, and chances are 3300 has lower esr...

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/2003esrchart.txt
from
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...7&postcount=20

there is a connection between capacitance and esr...

[gdement]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

The reduced ESR is a function of the can size, not the capacitance.
Also, unless I'm wrong, changing the capacitance changes the frequency where the cap performs the best. Due to that, it might be more ideal to get the bigger can with a higher voltage rating instead of changing the capacitance. But it's probably a minor issue unless you go crazy.

so Teapo have usually lower ESR? but they're not that good quality as I read here all over.

Depends on the series. Every manufacturer has a variety of different caps with different specs.
I think the series on Teapo caps is marked next to the temperature rating. It's probably 2 or 3 letters. For example, I think "SEK" is one of Teapo's series.

Lower ESR doesn't necessarily mean good quality - the most problematic caps from bad manufacturers tend to be low ESR types.

[Shodan486]

Re: Abit VP6 using different caps than the originals

I just want to reach 175MHz FSB, and I was like first 150mhz with some nichicon 1500uF, then sanyo 2200uF with the VRM to CPU, but 1500uF for the RAM & and I suppose the chipset...and now I have the Teapo with all 2200uF all over the board and I have 166mhz FSB stable (which gives approx 1250mhz for the CPUs)...I guess that this really is related to the capacitance of certain caps on certain spots mounted to the board.