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**ratdude747** · 09-12-2009, 10:08 AM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

hey keri, a custom built machine is also a work of art. especially the nicer looking cases. there are some that build thier own cased. those look cool as well. and guess what? more performance with less money!

if you want overpriced art, go to an art auction. maybe they will start putting bids on macs too.

**ratdude747** · 09-12-2009, 10:15 AM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

did you hear? the new ipod shuffle SUCKS. you must use apple phones or no vol/forward/back. they put it intro a proprietary remote with the headphones built in.

im happy with my 20gb 4th gen classic. i only paid 20 bux. but then again, no dock or firewire cable. ill have to find those so i open up a usb port.

**ratdude747** · 09-12-2009, 10:25 AM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

and for easy access- just open the side door? wow. nothing new here. JUST LIKE MOST PC's! all my boxes are like that. maybe older macs were a "rats's nest" but thats apple for you. they talk crap

keri, doulbe check your door. i think the papaer might have been painted. a virus may come bustin through. linux viruses= few "in the wild"-- mac- at least 50. even more- a bad one came out this year. they only seem virus-free because they are a minority and ignorant. linux is a minority but remember that servers use linux because it is stable and secure. just see what pwn2own showed. mac and pc busted in, nobody could get liux. nobody.

i actually did a speech for school on this. nobody changed but a few had to think a bit. i only had 8 min so i only got the tip of the iceburg.

**washu** · 09-12-2009, 10:28 AM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

Originally posted by 370forlife

Our school's machine shop still has a really old ibm desktop with a 286 that runs windows 3.1, and controls a mini cnc lathe. That has been running in the machine shop since it was bought new by the school for that purpose. No work has been done on it ever.

If that 286 ever does keel over you can go buy a new PC (just get one with a serial port) and run 3.1 on it and keep going. Win 3.1 won't be able to make good use of the hardware, but it will work at least as well as the 286 did.

If you had a 68K Mac from that era running a cnc machine and it died you would be screwed.

**370forlife** · 09-12-2009, 10:36 AM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

Originally posted by washu

If that 286 ever does keel over you can go buy a new PC (just get one with a serial port) and run 3.1 on it and keep going. Win 3.1 won't be able to make good use of the hardware, but it will work at least as well as the 286 did.

If you had a 68K Mac from that era running a cnc machine and it died you would be screwed.

Well, bad news, the school bought a HP to replace it. It is one of their business computers, is actually really nice. Delta power supply, nidec fans, intel motherboard with all solid sanyo and ucc's. Hitachi 173gb SCSI, core2duo 2.66ghz, nvidia quadro, 2gb ram. Bit of overkill. But no more writing all our small projects in gcode and saving them on floppy.

Lol, I don't think there was even a good cnc program out for the old mac 68K's back then, speaking of which, is there even any good mac cnc programs out now?

**KeriJane** · 09-12-2009, 11:43 AM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

Originally posted by ratdude747

hey keri, a custom built machine is also a work of art. especially the nicer looking cases. there are some that build thier own cased. those look cool as well. and guess what? more performance with less money!

if you want overpriced art, go to an art auction. maybe they will start putting bids on macs too.

Hi RatDude

Ummm...
I tried that. I still have the really, really nice Lian-Li V1000Wplus2 case it was in. It's the nicest PC case I've ever seen.
It's about 2/3rd as nice as my Mac Pro case.

More performance for less money?

OK, Build a dual Xeon workstation IN A REALLY NICE CASE, that is, better than a Lain-Li AND use better CPUs and a better Vidcard and a better PSU than the current 8-core Nehalem Mac Pro.
While you're at it throw in a better Hard Drive and more memory.
AND then make it all tidy inside and out like any Mac Pro
AND then illegally crack OSX and make it a Hackintosh so I'll buy it.

I'll betcha it won't be that cheap.
Or as far superior as you think.
And probably not as tidy.
And would you be willing to play Mac Genius?

I'll stick with my overpriced, awful, slow, vulnerable and cruddy Mac thank you,
Keri

PS. If anyone wants to bid on my particular Work of Art Mac Pro 1.1, it starts at $3200. REMEMBER, THIS MACHINE IS TIGER-CAPABLE!

PPS> It's a nice day! Maybe I'll go throw away $230 for the Snow Leopard Family Boxed Set at Micro center. Just for fun.

**i4004** · 09-12-2009, 12:20 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

>I'll stick with my overpriced, awful, slow, vulnerable and cruddy Mac thank you,
Keri

keri, that's just girlie talk!
<wink>

but i men really, "it's nice so i'll buy it"...it's kinda lowest level of argument one can use when it comes to pcs...
it's essentaily a box plugged to monitor. and you stare at the monitor most of the time, not at the box..or at the monitor from its back or side.

"bang for the buck" argument also doesn't hold water: custom build pc can beat(performance wise...i would put it int the cardboard just ot make you mad...hehe) an ymac while being considerably cheaper.
one time i did some calculus and it seemed to me you can buy 2 decent pcs for price of one mac...

**370forlife** · 09-12-2009, 12:36 PM

**Junk Parts** · 09-12-2009, 03:26 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

I have an oak shoe shine box here from the late eighteen hundreds with all the old shoe products still in it. It smells wonderful. I been toying with the idea of making the box into a PC case. Sorry but I will not be using Apple hardware or software in this project. Its going to be Windows Se7en.

**NxB** · 09-12-2009, 03:32 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

AND then make it all tidy inside and out like any Mac Pro

So you look inside your computer? True, I leave mine open for cooling but if it came all together I probably wouldn't leave the door off until I had to do something in there.

I have beef with apple's saving grace product, the ipod. I had a lyra CF based mp3 player before the Ipod came out. It was expensive but it worked fairly well. Other people I knew had nomads, etc. Then suddenly apple came out and acted like they invented the MP3 player and it got popular. Everyone may have beat them to the market but they were the only ones actually able to market. Now ignorant people think ipod = mp3 player, kinda like with kleenex. The screen-less shuffle is the stupidest idea ever too. Its also NOT the worlds smallest mp3 player by a long shot.

**i4004** · 09-12-2009, 03:42 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

you really did your homework, 370....

i don't go there anymore as mac fan will always find "better" reason to buy mac...hehe...

also, those who say price is the same should be suggesting configs...their claim, they should prove it.

**i4004** · 09-12-2009, 03:49 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

>Everyone may have beat them to the market but they were the only ones actually able to market.

i really don't believe in marketing.
i would say this was just fashion.
people copying other people because it was hip.
and it seems it was mostly american phenomenon....

oh yeah, the term "podcast"...hihih....

**washu** · 09-12-2009, 03:56 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

Originally posted by KeriJane

Hi RatDude
More performance for less money?

Kari, even I admit the high end Mac Pro is a good deal when compared to other OEMs. It's still expensive when compared to build your own, as 370forlife showed.

However, that's one model out of 8 that is a good deal. The rest are ripoffs including the base pro. I think there is a good chance Apple sells the high end pro at or near a loss and makes it up on the others.

Point is that unless you have $3,799.00 (Canadian price) and up to spend on a computer, everything Apple sells is way overpriced. Most people don't have almost 4K to spend on a computer. So if like most people you want a normally priced machine, Apple is ripping you off.

**ratdude747** · 09-12-2009, 04:21 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

the ad's claim that by removing the side panel and its all organized is no achievemet. look at a pc: memoy is togyjer, cards together, drives together. all accesible from the side panel.

BUT WAIT- i forgot there is a computer that can be a mess! one the original macs! its an achievement only in a mac-only world.

**KeriJane** · 09-12-2009, 04:34 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

Hi Washu

Just stopping in between errands and going to the carnival.

Thank you for admitting the Mac Pro can be a good value. No one else here seems to know what workstations cost.

I realize that I won't change your mind, but "regular" Macs aren't a "Ripoff"

Compared to similarly featured all-in-ones and laptops they may be at the high end but not way off of the price charts as most here will insist.
All-in-one iMacs aren't double or triple the price of All-in-one VAIO, Gateway or HP models with similar CPUs and screens so what's all the fuss?
Likewise, the Mini competes with an Acer Veriton or a Moneual C2Duo really tiny system...

But you won't believe me anyway. You'll go comparing Home-built or Atom-based, or Celeron-based store-bought junk or even "Recertified" close out deals that nobody wanted to decently made and equipped Macs that don't go on 50% off sales BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO .

Have Fun,
Gonna see if I can spot Ratdude's place from the Ferris Wheel,
Keri

PS. The modern aluminum MacBooks in particular are hard to beat. Have you ever tried one out in the Mac Store? No one makes as good of a laptop at any price.
Just one detail, the Magsafe power plug makes all the difference if you trip on the power cord. Instant Death for a PC laptop doesn't even scratch a MacBook as the cord just pops off. (instead of dropping the laptop right on to the plug, which breaks the connector on the mainboard).

**ratdude747** · 09-12-2009, 04:38 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

i heard magsafe cords frayed really easily. also one button for the touchpad sucks.

**NxB** · 09-12-2009, 04:58 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

What about Thinkpads? The T series are just as good as macbooks and they had some innovative concepts in general (thinklight, x21 pretty much a "netbook"). They even have something that beats the macbook air, the x300 (still too pricey).

Mac vs Hp,etc ... ghasp!! oem shit aimed at rich people is expensive.

**370forlife** · 09-12-2009, 05:02 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

Originally posted by NxB

What about Thinkpads? The T series are just as good as macbooks and they had some innovative concepts in general (thinklight, x21 pretty much a "netbook"). They even have something that beats the macbook air, the x300 (still too pricey).

Mac vs Hp,etc ... ghasp!! oem shit aimed at rich people is expensive.

My brother got a thinkpad x31 free. Basically never used. Essentially the pioneer of netbooks. 10" screen, 1.6 pentium m, 512mb ram, 40gb hd. Runs cool, and is fast. Titanium hinges, scratch-proof finish. Very nice for free.

**Junk Parts** · 09-12-2009, 05:20 PM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

Yes I know that my PC's were built by The Big Evil Coporation called "DELL" but they are more like home builts than anything. The only original "Dell" parts in my Optiplex GX 180 are as follows. Lets see... The case, mobo, and CPU. Everthing else came right off the shelf from Best Buy, C-Tech, and my brothers trash can. The Dimension 4550 has just little more Dell content than the Optiplex does in that it still has its original PSU in it too. Try that with an Apple. I spend more on coffee in a year at 7-11 than it has taken me to build and maintain these little PC's. Nothing wrong with Apple but regular PC parts are cheaper and found everywhere. Now its a different story with my Dell Latitude C640 Laptop. Nothing is cheap or easy to find for it. Thats why its working but still semi broken at this time. All I need is the main battery, the backup/CMOS battery, and a new CD/DVD Burner drive for it and it will be whole again.

**KeriJane** · 09-13-2009, 12:45 AM

Re: Another example of superior Apple hardware

Originally posted by NxB

What about Thinkpads? The T series are just as good as macbooks and they had some innovative concepts in general (thinklight, x21 pretty much a "netbook"). They even have something that beats the macbook air, the x300 (still too pricey).

Mac vs Hp,etc ... ghasp!! oem shit aimed at rich people is expensive.

Hi NxB!

Yes, T-Seried Thinkpads are decently tough and very repairable. The DC jack is separate, bolted to the metal frame and plugs into the mainboard with a flexible wire.
It's interesting to see the difference in Philosophy here.
ThinkPads and ToughBooks toughen the notebook considerably while MacBook tries to keep it from falling in the first place!
T-series ThinkPads aren't exactly cheap and ToughBooks aren't either.

These are the only 3 serious Notebooks I recommend: MacBooks, T-Series ThinkPads and ToughBooks. Anything else is just too fragile.

Mac vs. HP? OEM Stuff aimed at rich peeps?

But that's my whole point! Compare Similar systems, not compare an iMac with a homebuilt mid-range PC.
Or, compare Mac Pro to a similar HP or Dell workstation or a very serious homebuilt.

Homebuilt PCs have their place, but unless you're talking about a miniITX with a C2D vs. a Mac Mini OR a Dual-Xeon Workstation against a Mac Pro,
there's no direct comparison to any Mac model.

This is probably intentional as Apple has no interest in competing in the "Mid-Range Tower" market. How would they benefit from taking on the major PC stronghold directly? They would lose both money and reputation so they don't try.
Same with Netbooks. Apple has judged them to be a pain to use and low profit, so they're not going to go there.
They have (wisely in my opinion) decided to let PC have the low-profit mass market and cater to well, people like me!

Apple: great for a certain (large) MINORITY of users.
They cannot be everything to everyone so they do not try.

Have Fun,
Keri

PS. Darn! they didn't have a Ferris Wheel this year.
Just some old "Ides Of March" band.

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