Could not upgrade to windows 10

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

i find it absolutly hilarious that you have to go to so much trouble to install this product,
yet on their own forums they talk shit about Linux like it's the late 1990's still!!

Roger that, QFT...

[keeney123]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

Ran out of time to edit
I give Microsoft to much credit, you still can not boot from an USB drive like Apple can. This then makes it difficult were it needs not be. So now I have a fully bootable windows 10 HD spare. I used Ease USA Todo free backup for Windows 10 to clone the drive out to the USB HD. I did a few other procedures but do not thing they made the drive bootable. I do think the Todo actually created a bootable drive. I believe they offer to select NX for signatures which I selected. I put the drive in the computer and put the media program for Widows 10 in the USB port. I changed the bios priority to boot the USB HD first. The media program told me to take itself out. Which I did. There was a problem most likely because of the priority setting so it went to the Microsoft tools. I selected safe boot with network. It booted into this in Windows 10. I went back to the Bios change the Boot priority to the internal hard drive first and it booted up no problem. I went out on the internet no problem. I shut down and took the drive out and put it in a closet. Then I put the original drive back in and that is what I am send this information out on. Done up grading. I also check out those things Spork. Widows updates was already set up and selected Microsoft Products when I update; display is AMD, IDE/ ... controllers is Intel (R) ICH9M-E/M Sata AHCI controller So I'm done. I like Cortana. Finds everything on PC and web.

[keeney123]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

i find it absolutly hilarious that you have to go to so much trouble to install this product,
yet on their own forums they talk shit about Linux like it's the late 1990's still!!

The problem is not the product I installed but the security issues and paranoia of some higher up that some poor person might get something for nothing. The other problem is Microsoft is not training their support people enough and they are not giving their people enough tools to quickly do their jobs.

If you think that was funny you would of cracked up watching me build a bunk bed that was made in Asia.

Linux has it own problems with their product. On the other side of the coin they don't have so much bullshit Security to go through. To me a Computer is just a tool. I do not want to program them. I would rather be painting pictures and visiting family and friends because life is short. If a person needs help I help them however that may look. If I can change something that is stupid which affects people in a negative way I do. I will let you program Linux and prove how idiotic Microsoft is because competition is a good thing.

[stj]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

m$ has always been a joke, when i actually did support work i remember installing a zipdrive on a machine running NT.
NEVER have i had to reboot a machine so many times just to install a driver & then get the o.s. to see a piece of hardware connected to a regular interface!!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

I am now trying to clone Widows 10 to my USB drive so I can boot from that drive. So if something goes wrong with the program on the internal drive I will get the old drive out and clone it to the internal drive. I have Acronis 2013 and that is not compatible. They want $20 for the 2016 which I just might buy as I put a bunk bed together today you a neighbor and she gave me some money. I told her to keep it, but she said she will never ask me to do anything again if I did not take it.
The thing is that the Widows 10 updated itself after I installed. It did this automatically. I will check the update an will look at the device manager. Everything seems to be working fine. Printer scan and smart fax works fine. There is also a recovery partition that Windows put on the disk. I used Todo to Clone the disk and will check if it is booting up on the USB.

I don't think Windows supports booting off a USB device, although some people have made a portable version that can run off a thumb drive / USB hard drive. There are some Microsoft mini-OSes that are designed to run off a USB device, like the WinPE.

But is that really necessary? Wouldn't it just be easier to re-install the way you did today, if it came down to it? Just pop in the installation media (DVD / thumb drive / whatever it was), format, reinstall?

Even though everything seems to be working correctly, please double check the device manager. Their generic drivers aren't like they used to be. For the Video drivers, you might not be able to tell just by looking at the screen if you're running Generic or not. Hard drive, my friend Paul, he can never tell until a week of using the PC or so. He'll call saying okay, I redid it a week okay, now it's running slower than a snail. How do we fix it?

After we do the SATA controller drivers, he'll call back and say it's running faster than a raped rabbit.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

i find it absolutly hilarious that you have to go to so much trouble to install this product,
yet on their own forums they talk shit about Linux like it's the late 1990's still!!

I really think they actually borrow code from the various open source programs. I've seen stuff in X-Windows for years and then Microsoft has a similar feature.

Almost every time I gotta reinstall a Windows machine, I gotta go hunt down drivers. I can't believe after all these years, they still can't figure out away to provide all the drivers during install. I couldn't tell you how long it has been since I had to custom compile a Linux kernel for hardware support. I just pop a disc in, install Linux and all my hardware has pre-compiled modules. I don't think this is a Linux only thing. I think most *nix's are like this. I want to try that FreeBSD out sometime.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

Ran out of time to edit
I give Microsoft to much credit, you still can not boot from an USB drive like Apple can. This then makes it difficult were it needs not be. So now I have a fully bootable windows 10 HD spare. I used Ease USA Todo free backup for Windows 10 to clone the drive out to the USB HD. I did a few other procedures but do not thing they made the drive bootable. I do think the Todo actually created a bootable drive. I believe they offer to select NX for signatures which I selected. I put the drive in the computer and put the media program for Widows 10 in the USB port. I changed the bios priority to boot the USB HD first. The media program told me to take itself out. Which I did. There was a problem most likely because of the priority setting so it went to the Microsoft tools. I selected safe boot with network. It booted into this in Windows 10. I went back to the Bios change the Boot priority to the internal hard drive first and it booted up no problem. I went out on the internet no problem. I shut down and took the drive out and put it in a closet. Then I put the original drive back in and that is what I am send this information out on. Done up grading. I also check out those things Spork. Widows updates was already set up and selected Microsoft Products when I update; display is AMD, IDE/ ... controllers is Intel (R) ICH9M-E/M Sata AHCI controller So I'm done. I like Cortana. Finds everything on PC and web.

Good to go!

[jiroy]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

It's the same old frustration . Microsoft releases new windows chaotically and relay on people to report problems . No certified drivers is the always trouble , (although they deal with it later , leaving people frustrated ) .
Thinking about Money is what killing Microsoft each day , and if there was a solid rival , such things won't happen .

[keeney123]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

I don't think Windows supports booting off a USB device, although some people have made a portable version that can run off a thumb drive / USB hard drive. There are some Microsoft mini-OSes that are designed to run off a USB device, like the WinPE.

After we do the SATA controller drivers, he'll call back and say it's running faster than a raped rabbit.

But is that really necessary? Wouldn't it just be easier to re-install the way you did today, if it came down to it? Just pop in the installation media (DVD / thumb drive / whatever it was), format, reinstall?

Even though everything seems to be working correctly, please double check the device manager. Their generic drivers aren't like they used to be. For the Video drivers, you might not be able to tell just by looking at the screen if you're running Generic or not. Hard drive, my friend Paul, he can never tell until a week of using the PC or so. He'll call saying okay, I redid it a week okay, now it's running slower than a snail. How do we fix it?

I did check in the device manager and the drivers are from intel for sata and amc for the display.

Let me ask you if your internal drive has a mechanical failure what do you do then? Apple is able to boot from the USB. One can boot different operating systems very easy.
So if my internal drive mechanically fails I have a back up. I then can buy a new drive and install it and load that drive with all of my information quickly. If one could boot from the USB and a virus wipes my drive I could clone my internal drive very easy. If I wanted to install a new drive and I could boot from the USB then I could use the USB drive to install everything you needed, driver etc. in a very quick way. If one is really paranoid one could make two back up drives.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

...
I did check in the device manager and the drivers are from intel for sata and amc for the display.

I hadn't read the remaining posts when I wrote that, so we're good.

Let me ask you if your internal drive has a mechanical failure what do you do then? Apple is able to boot from the USB. One can boot different operating systems very easy.
So if my internal drive mechanically fails I have a back up. I then can buy a new drive and install it and load that drive with all of my information quickly. If one could boot from the USB and a virus wipes my drive I could clone my internal drive very easy. If I wanted to install a new drive and I could boot from the USB then I could use the USB drive to install everything you needed, driver etc. in a very quick way. If one is really paranoid one could make two back up drives.

If one of my internal hard drives fail, which happens every so many years, I simply buy a replacement, pop in a disc, pick the filesystem I want to use, setup my partitions, format everything and reinstall the OS. Then, I restore my backed up copy of my /home partition.

Maybe two days ago I decided to reinstall OpenSuSE on my PC. It took maybe 2 hours to do the entire thing. The part that took the longest was actually restoring the backups, but I'm sure it was quicker for me to just copy them over rather than copy an entire image.

Hard drive images / partition images, they include free space as well as data. They contain things such as the partition table. Let's say you have a 500GB hard drive and you've cloned the hard drive. Then your hard drive dies and you go buy a 1TB hard drive and restore that clone, you gotta do some work to get that 1TB of space now. Just restoring that 500GB image won't work. The 1TB will report that it's only 500GB in size. You have to expand the partition and do a bunch of other work.

You can do it whatever way you like, I was just curious as to why you were doing it the way you were doing it. To me, it's just a lot easier and quicker to reinstall the OS and restore my backups. Sooner or later, hard drives will fail. They always do. So I just keep good backups.

That hard drive image you have though, that's not so much a backup of your data, just the original OS. To me, it's actually more work installing an OS from a cloned image then it is to just use the installation discs. But if you prefer to do it the way you're doing it, do it up! In the end, it doesn't really matter how you get your PC back up and running I guess, so long as you get it back up and running!

[keeney123]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

I hadn't read the remaining posts when I wrote that, so we're good.



If one of my internal hard drives fail, which happens every so many years, I simply buy a replacement, pop in a disc, pick the filesystem I want to use, setup my partitions, format everything and reinstall the OS. Then, I restore my backed up copy of my /home partition.

Maybe two days ago I decided to reinstall OpenSuSE on my PC. It took maybe 2 hours to do the entire thing. The part that took the longest was actually restoring the backups, but I'm sure it was quicker for me to just copy them over rather than copy an entire image.

Hard drive images / partition images, they include free space as well as data. They contain things such as the partition table. Let's say you have a 500GB hard drive and you've cloned the hard drive. Then your hard drive dies and you go buy a 1TB hard drive and restore that clone, you gotta do some work to get that 1TB of space now. Just restoring that 500GB image won't work. The 1TB will report that it's only 500GB in size. You have to expand the partition and do a bunch of other work.

You can do it whatever way you like, I was just curious as to why you were doing it the way you were doing it. To me, it's just a lot easier and quicker to reinstall the OS and restore my backups. Sooner or later, hard drives will fail. They always do. So I just keep good backups.

That hard drive image you have though, that's not so much a backup of your data, just the original OS. To me, it's actually more work installing an OS from a cloned image then it is to just use the installation discs. But if you prefer to do it the way you're doing it, do it up! In the end, it doesn't really matter how you get your PC back up and running I guess, so long as you get it back up and running!

So the cloning program can copy one to one, they can be expanded or compressed. It can do different formatting of the partition. I have not done all that, but I do know it is available on clone programs. I have found out though that the one to one works best as the program does not put the Windows Boot record in a spot that Windows does not recognize. I never have a drive bigger than 250 GB. That is all I need. If I were to have a lot of information then yes I would store that information in a external drive or on a desktop. When I clone a drive it does not take over a 2 hour time period. All I have to do is initiate the program and the program takes care of everything. I do not have to hunt for drivers and all my information, music, photos, documents etc. are all ready to go. Also, if you have a desktop with places for more than one ATA port you can connect one to too port 0 and the other too one of the four other ports and decrease the cloning time down to around 30 min for complete clone.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

To me, it's always just easier and quicker to install from disc. But also, in my line of work, installing from a cloned image wouldn't be a good idea anyway, because (although I'm trying to get out of it), I work on a lot of different PCs. None of them are the same.

My personal computer, it's got around 4TB of hard drive space. That's a decent amount, but not insane or anything. I have multiple hard drives but I use some just for backups. To clone a 250GB, it might not be bad, but you need one backup drive per hard drive. With a disc, you just need one disc for any PC you come across.

I think another reason I like the disc option, we don't have a lot of cash. The hard drives and thumb drives we own, we're using. Even with 4TB of space, I run out fairly quick like.

Thanks for sharing why you prefer cloning the disc and restoring that way instead of using a disc to install. I gotta say, I think you're the first person I've met that prefers to use disc images for the reinstallation of a hard drive. Kinda cool.

[keeney123]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

To me, it's always just easier and quicker to install from disc. But also, in my line of work, installing from a cloned image wouldn't be a good idea anyway, because (although I'm trying to get out of it), I work on a lot of different PCs. None of them are the same.

My personal computer, it's got around 4TB of hard drive space. That's a decent amount, but not insane or anything. I have multiple hard drives but I use some just for backups. To clone a 250GB, it might not be bad, but you need one backup drive per hard drive. With a disc, you just need one disc for any PC you come across.

I think another reason I like the disc option, we don't have a lot of cash. The hard drives and thumb drives we own, we're using. Even with 4TB of space, I run out fairly quick like.

Thanks for sharing why you prefer cloning the disc and restoring that way instead of using a disc to install. I gotta say, I think you're the first person I've met that prefers to use disc images for the reinstallation of a hard drive. Kinda cool.

It really is not a disk image. It is a complete replaceable copy of the internal hard drive. This is useful for the owner of the computer. So if anything happens to there computer it becomes a easy fix. The home owner would likely view this as a small price to pay for the protection of the operating system, the drivers if their computer crashes at home. Loading all their programs and the most important data, music, pictures, documents is well worth a 250GB to 500GB hard drive for $45 to $65 dollars. Their other back up drives could be separate.
The type of work you are doing is upgrading a OS and this would be useless for that. If you were installing the same operating system than that would be different. You could use one drive for all machines. Each time you would be cloning a customers machine it gets rid of the previous owners operating system. I am sure this is not want you are doing. You are upgrading a working machine. A disk image whether on a flash drive or a CD Rom disk does not matter. I prefer the flash drive because it is small, holds more data, is quicker and it last longer. These are just some thoughts I like to share with you and others. My intent is to provide information not try and change how anyone does business.

[keeney123]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

Also, if one provided services to clone ones drive. The provider could sell the drives at a mark up. They could make a wholesale deal with the drive manufacturer of their choice. The drive manufacturer would likely would provide the technical repair person the clone program free so they could sell more drives. Set it up as an experiment with the drive manufacturer so they give you say 5 drives if in 6 months time if you have not sold the drives the contract would end and you would return the drives. So say if one provided this service for a total of $75. I think this could be profitable. Just more thoughts.

If this took off where many people wanted this then the drive Manufacturer would have some influence with Microsoft to change their policy of booting from the USB port.

[Packard93]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

i would not go to 10 . 7 is alot more stable . people are finding that they cant get 10 to operate some of there hardware in 10 is incompatilble with software and hardware there non existent support. Some will not run at all . Risky going to 10 .

[keeney123]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

i would not go to 10 . 7 is alot more stable . people are finding that they cant get 10 to operate some of there hardware in 10 is incompatilble with software and hardware there non existent support. Some will not run at all . Risky going to 10 .

I have had no problem with any of those issues. I have noticed that they have worked on ten from when it first came out. I agree with you of their support as when I wanted to upgrade their support people were unable to upgrade me and their upgrade tool even said my processor was not supported. That was not true. Of course my upgrade was windows 10 pro. If seven is what you are comfortable with then that seems perfectly fine.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

It really is not a disk image. It is a complete replaceable copy of the internal hard drive. This is useful for the owner of the computer. So if anything happens to there computer it becomes a easy fix. The home owner would likely view this as a small price to pay for the protection of the operating system, the drivers if their computer crashes at home. Loading all their programs and the most important data, music, pictures, documents is well worth a 250GB to 500GB hard drive for $45 to $65 dollars. Their other back up drives could be separate.
The type of work you are doing is upgrading a OS and this would be useless for that. If you were installing the same operating system than that would be different. You could use one drive for all machines. Each time you would be cloning a customers machine it gets rid of the previous owners operating system. I am sure this is not want you are doing. You are upgrading a working machine. A disk image whether on a flash drive or a CD Rom disk does not matter. I prefer the flash drive because it is small, holds more data, is quicker and it last longer. These are just some thoughts I like to share with you and others. My intent is to provide information not try and change how anyone does business.

Generally, I do not do upgrades. I honestly couldn't tell you when I upgraded the OS for a person. Almost always, when I work on a PC (which isn't often now), I have to backup their data, format, and then reinstall the operating system.

The way I do it is this:
I pull the hard drive and make an image of the entire hard drive first using dd. That way, after I redo the PC, if the user says hey, I had this on the old PC but it's missing now, I can simply mount their hard drive image and copy the files that where missing. After a few months, if I don't hear from the customer (or if I start running out of space), I delete the hard drive image. If it's a really big hard drive (1TB or so), I'll just copy the files instead of creating an image. An image is an exact copy of the hard drive (or partition if I just clone the partition with dd). So I can take a completely blank, unformatted hard drive, and write the entire image back to any hard drive I want that's the same size or bigger, and it's an exact copy of the hard drive I cloned, including all the "free" space.

I then go ahead and delete everything on the customer's PC. I'll destroy all partitions, everything.

Then I prepare the disc for pre-activation. I install the SLIC certificate on the thumb drive, I might slipstream some drivers, the product key, etc. I do most of this using the Microsoft DISM tool.

Then I install the OS and fully update it. After that, I'll usually setup the recovery partition and do away with the Microsoft recovery partition, if there is one. I'll use the recovery partition that was on the old hard drive. I'll enable any of the POST recovery keys, if there were any.

When all the programs are installed, all the drivers are installed, everything, I give the PC back and charge the customer 175$ (or 75$ if they seem to not have a lot of money, or free if they're a friend / family).

Unfortunately, the backup of the data and the restoring of that data is what takes the longest and is the most pain in the butt. If it wasn't for that, it'd take, I dunno, maybe 15 minutes to install the OS. A while longer to run updates, but that's not much work. Just hit a button and away we go. Nowadays, most drivers are included on the installation disc, but if they're not, it's not very hard at all to find the various drivers. Sometimes, Windows Update has them. But it literally takes, I dunno, maybe 5 minutes to do the various drivers.

I can't keep images of people's hard drives for long. Hard drives have gotten much bigger. Customers, they want to save cash the best way possible. Most of them don't want a hard drive they'll never use. If their PC breaks again, they'll bring it to me. It doesn't make sense to sell them a hard drive that has the same information that their PC has on it, just so in the future, if I need to redo their PC, I can just copy the data back.

It's like buying a car. That car might break, but you're not going to let the car dealer sell you another car, just so you have a ride, in case your main car breaks, right? Or have him sell you another engine, in case yours goes.

With a personal PC that is yours, I can understand why you keep the hard drive. Just to me, it seems more logical to do it the way I do it (and, well, free).

If a decent amount of time has gone by since you imaged the hard drive, when you restore it, you're going to have to run Windows update. Now-a-days, when you use the Microsoft download tool to download the ISO (to burn to disc or to use to create a bootable thumb drive), it downloads an updated ISO each time, not an outdated one. So the ISO it downloads today will be different than the ISO it downloads in a month. By downloading the ISO each time I redo a PC, I don't have to run Windows update for days at a time like I did with Windows XP, in the end there. I don't have to worry about Microsoft updates not working because the Update Agent has changed too much since when the ISO was burned to disc. I get the latest updates installed when the OS is installed.

I'm not trying to get you to switch how you do things though Keeney. I respect your right to decide how to do things anyway you want. I just wanted to try and understand why you do it differently, and show you how I do it. Thanks.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

Also, if one provided services to clone ones drive. The provider could sell the drives at a mark up. They could make a wholesale deal with the drive manufacturer of their choice. The drive manufacturer would likely would provide the technical repair person the clone program free so they could sell more drives. Set it up as an experiment with the drive manufacturer so they give you say 5 drives if in 6 months time if you have not sold the drives the contract would end and you would return the drives. So say if one provided this service for a total of $75. I think this could be profitable. Just more thoughts.

If this took off where many people wanted this then the drive Manufacturer would have some influence with Microsoft to change their policy of booting from the USB port.

You don't have to buy cloning programs either. dd can do everything you want. And there's ddrescue as well, for times when the hard drive is dying, but you can still access some of the data.

For some customers though, I just make a recovery disc, if they really want it. I generally don't suggest it though, because it loses me business. But for friends where I'm not making any money, I'll generally make them a recovery disc. They just pop it in, and they don't even hit a button. The whole thing is completely automated, well, minus picking out a username, password and connecting to their wireless devices.

Out of curiosity, why not just make a recovery disc instead of copying the entire hard drive? You just pop it in, it will have all the drivers, you can tell it how to partition the hard drive, you can store the product key on it, so you don't have to type it, you can slipstream the drivers, so you never have to look for them, you can tell it to install certain programs when the OS is installed, you can even fine tune your settings for Windows (ie, make Chrome your default browser instead of IE, import these bookmarks when the OS is installed so you don't have to do it later, etc) and it doesn't cost anything but a DVD or a thumb drive.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

i would not go to 10 . 7 is alot more stable . people are finding that they cant get 10 to operate some of there hardware in 10 is incompatilble with software and hardware there non existent support. Some will not run at all . Risky going to 10 .

A big problem seems to be older video cards. A lot of the older AMD (I think it was AMD) video cards don't seem to be compatible. People have contacted AMD and asked and they say the hardware just isn't compatible at all. It might have been nVidia, I don't remember.

Anyway, for the most part, it's not true. There's this third party program that will allow you to modify the drivers to work with 10, although, some of these video cards features might not _fully_ work. I've done it with a few laptops now. It sucks. The hardware in these laptops is fully capable of running 10 really well, but the GPUs in these laptops are really old and outdated. I think Microsoft and the various companies are just saying hey, this is a really old PC. Although it costed a couple grand back in the day and is still faster than some of the newer PCs, it's time to upgrade.

[keeney123]

Re: Could not upgrade to windows 10

So Spork why do you take the data off the machine and then put the same data back on it? That does not make sense to me?

So cloning the whole hard drive is not but a few minutes more than just cloning the C partition. Most of the data is on that. So yes just to put the basic programs on does not take long. My experience with Microsoft has taught me to not change anything on the hard drive. I use to do that and something would always happen to the boot record. Even if I ran the repair portion of the Microsoft program it would not matter. I used their ISO disk image and was unable to mount the image. After a few occurrences. Losing my data and starting from scratch. I decided that I would buy a 500GB esata Seagate Hard drive for $60 for my Windows 7 desktop and bring the ATA internal connection to the back of the machine with cable that connected to the ATA port and on the other end had a esata connector. The esata drive had a cable that came with it. So I could clone the internal HD in 15 min. If I had wanted to get another esata drive for storage I could of used the same connector to for storage. Much, much faster than usb. When I gave the machine to a friend the drive went with it. Every year or so I could do another clone and that would update everything.
It would be safe on the self as It would be hard to get a virus disconnected from the machine. If my machine had a virus and it affected the hard drive I can then boot up with the spare and then let that drive clone the internal drive which would wipe out everything on that drive and replace it with a bootable good programs that included all my data and all the updates to when I last cloned the drive. Remember this would take just 15 mins.
All the extra stuff you do I do not have to do because I have it all. Now if I had two esata ports on my machine I could of booted up with the internal drive and then I could clone the program on one esata drive to another drive esata drive in 15 min. If I get a connector that has multiple connectors on it then I could connect what ever drive I want to the esata connector.

So if you told the customer that if he would buy the drive and the service for $75 to fix his machine and told him that if he would store the Hard Drive in a safe place and not use it the next time he came in with the drive you would only charge him $30 to fix his programs again. All you would have to do is take the drive clone it through the usb port to the internal drive. and then run windows updates on it. So say the drive retails for $60 you set up buying a drive from a drive manufacturer $30. At $60 retail the drive manufacturer is going to at least have a 500% mark up. That means at most the drive manufacturer is paying $12 for that drive. That would mean you make $45 for your work and $30 everything the guy screws his machine up.