Your opinion of Apple

[goontron]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Goontron, help me understand your signature. What does EFI hav to do with Mac? /offtopic

The Macintosh adopted EFI back in 2006 when they switched to Intel. Sun Microsystems had used a version since the 90s.

[shovenose]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Goontron, help me understand your signature. What does EFI hav to do with Mac? /offtopic

[goontron]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

While I do have a healthy disdain for Apples iDevices, The Mackintosh can be hammered into a real Unix desktop rather easily With a Mach kernel and a BSD user space. And Xorg is still developed for OSX which helps. I've even had pkg going on OSX once.

[ratdude747]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

That was just "pretend." Best thing was to never install "Client for Microsoft Networks" or "MS Family Logon" in the first place, and/or remove them.

WinME had the TCP/IP stack from Win2k and UPnp. And supposedly, it also had 'standard" drivers for USB mass storage. Supposedly...

Yes ME did have standard USB mass storage drivers... Can't say regarding the network stack though.

[diif]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Forget the hardware. iTunes is the biggest steaming pile of horse shit i have encountered.
It seems to get worse with every update.

[kaboom]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Best feature of old Windows: Escape key = root password.

That was just "pretend." Best thing was to never install "Client for Microsoft Networks" or "MS Family Logon" in the first place, and/or remove them.

WinME had the TCP/IP stack from Win2k and UPnp. And supposedly, it also had 'standard" drivers for USB mass storage. Supposedly...

[synaesthesia]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

As above - Apple have not been innovators since those days.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

I had an Apple II+ and IIe.
They were not locked down. Anyone could build/write software for these machines without Apple.
Though there were probably some Macintoshes that share the same openness, but after these machines I don't think I'll ever get any more Apple equipment.

[Heihachi_73]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

I don't think ME had any NT components, it was just a hacked up 98SE and with MS-DOS hidden away (which still worked via a boot disk). I think one of my older PCs still has Windows ME on it, although IIRC it has a failing HDD.

Best feature of old Windows: Escape key = root password.

[kaboom]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Agreed with Topcat that vista SP2 wasn't too bad... [b]Basically the core of 7, with the skin of XP only jazzed up[/b[ (aero, etc.). But before that, it was vistrash.

That was my impression. Vista SP2 being like a backport of 7... I did get the "pleasure" of the first release of vista, back in 2007. Well shitsta it was- a brand new toshiba laptop, dropping back to 256 colors (like win3.1!) because an installer wasn't "vista ready," whatever that meant. Didn't help that said installer was for AOHell- I was troubleshooting it for some dial-uppers.

Funny thing about ME is that it wasn't useless either... I do know one could make older versions of Opera Browser work better in 98SE by switching one of the DLLs for one from ME... likewise, I suspect the universal mass storage driver for 98SE I've seen and use was probably sourced from ME. If they had left it as a 98 third edition (and not gone as far as they actually did), MS may have been on to something...

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/deta...vice_pack.html

I know for a fact that 98SE's FAT32 was not limited to 137GB. I have a WD black 200GB on an A7V running 98SE to keep me company with old TV shows in the shop, as a test mule.

It's almost like M$ was just getting good with refining things. If complete USB support (no drivers for each piece of "standard" hardware, like card readers/external HDDs/cameras), PCI-E/multiproc/multicore, support for HDA QFEs, better DX8.1 support for video stuff (beyond overlay mixer), decent DHCP (and 802.11B/G(/N?), and support for NTFS, they'd have had a winner.

but nope, at least we got XP out of it (sadly, activation as well )

I don't know whatcha mean... That was never a problem for me.

The real problem with xp's crap-tivation was that it set a precident. People became "used to" begging for permission to use what they paid for, so much so they don't even twitch anymore.

Sorry- take your "Longhorn" and shove(nose) it.

[ratdude747]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Since my only eXPerience with vista so far has been cleaning it up, I can't fairly compare it, especially after SP2- my opinion was obviously biased.

Now given that winME was a hodgepodge of legacy and NT components (98SE was too, but ME took it too far), it was a wonder just for that. The fact that the "rushed prototype" ever got released was even more of a wonder... I did use it for a few months, but then I discovered 98SE...

For legacy stuff, 98SE destroys ME, no question, especially when the "non-optional option" is removed.

Agreed with Topcat that vista SP2 wasn't too bad... Basically the core of 7, with the skin of XP only jazzed up (aero, etc.). But before that, it was vistrash.

Funny thing about ME is that it wasn't useless either... I do know one could make older versions of Opera Browser work better in 98SE by switching one of the DLLs for one from ME... likewise, I suspect the universal mass storage driver for 98SE I've seen and use was probably sourced from ME. If they had left it as a 98 third edition (and not gone as far as they actually did), MS may have been on to something... but nope, at least we got XP out of it (sadly, activation as well )

[kaboom]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Between Apple and Volkswagen, I don't know which is worse. Both are overpriced and operated by a bunch of gay hippies. Did I mention I despise Golfs? Right up there with fart-canned automatic Jap crap (cue all the colours of the gay rainbow on both the car and their clothing) and straight-piped Harleys.

Early Apple products had a rainbow logo; yeah, even in the 70s and 80s you could see who they were marketing to.

Let's all take a "break."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhuUX47h91I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqTSUI-NdU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdPTxUhfrVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOO5ZVm2EN0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOdZkSdNKSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0TpLBObBj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1_uvM-5xKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B3cEMueaDc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRuzGMGhHY

Actually, as much as it pains me to say this.... Vista performs very nice after SP2. WinME? It never functioned right....EVER. You can have winME, I'll gladly take vista over that.

Since my only eXPerience with vista so far has been cleaning it up, I can't fairly compare it, especially after SP2- my opinion was obviously biased.

Now given that winME was a hodgepodge of legacy and NT components (98SE was too, but ME took it too far), it was a wonder just for that. The fact that the "rushed prototype" ever got released was even more of a wonder... I did use it for a few months, but then I discovered 98SE...

For legacy stuff, 98SE destroys ME, no question, especially when the "non-optional option" is removed.

[Topcat]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

FWIW, between vista and winME, winME wins.

Actually, as much as it pains me to say this.... Vista performs very nice after SP2. WinME? It never functioned right....EVER. You can have winME, I'll gladly take vista over that.

[Heihachi_73]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Between Apple and Volkswagen, I don't know which is worse. Both are overpriced and operated by a bunch of gay hippies. Did I mention I despise Golfs? Right up there with fart-canned automatic Jap crap (cue all the colours of the gay rainbow on both the car and their clothing) and straight-piped Harleys.

Early Apple products had a rainbow logo; yeah, even in the 70s and 80s you could see who they were marketing to.

[shovenose]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Well, Apple and Microsoft both do this "cloud bullshit" because that's what's in right now. If they don't do it, they will not keep up and they will die.

[kaboom]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Right on. I still do prefer 8 over 7. If you can get past the annoying Start screen it's got lots of great improvements. You can reinstall the OS easily from within the OS. Better battery life for laptops and tablets. Faster boot and shut-down times than 7. Installs faster. Overall Win8/8.1 is more responsive and feels quicker which is more important than how it actually performs, even though it does actually perform better.

Windows 10 so far is just an evolution of this. Just like Windows 7 was what Vista should have been, 10 is going to be what 8 should have been. but honestly an OS is so complicated I do understand that it takes time to get it right.

Microsoft took a huge gamble with Windows 8, and it looks like it might finally pay off with Windows 10. The free upgrades from 7 are really going to help adoption rates. It's my opinion that they should have included Vista in that upgrade path to see an even faster migration (plenty of people out there running Vista that can't justify spending lots of money to upgrade to 7 or 8, but would like to move on from Vista).

Microsoft services (Microsoft Store, Office Web Apps, Microsoft Office 2013/265, Outlook.com, Windows Phone, etc) are all tied into Windows 10, bring it a helluva lot closer to how well Apple's ecosystem works. I don't like Apple, I don't like Mac OS, and I don't like iOS - but that shit does work well together, which is something Microsoft has been unable to master until now.

All I know is that when you search for a file on your machine. using that "taskbar omnibox," your request sure as hell ain't staying local, if ya know what I mean.

The question isn't how if the database exists or not; the question is how pervasive it is, and will those far reaching "services" be "required" for M$'s stupid cloud pipedream.

When have we seen this particular arrogance from M$ before? Right- when they did IE-gate ("required" for OS to run) and "rentalware" with "modern office."

It's like all these companies are announcing that they'll get away with it, because you've no other choice.

The best kept secret is older hardware, and non-sucky software from past times.

"You won't join the cloud? Then we'll force it into new OS'es, and provide incentive$ to make you upgrade." You know, like SSL-busting, for instance.

Too bad there's a certain percentage who'll have nothing to do with any of it.

FWIW, between vista and winME, winME wins.

[shovenose]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Then again, I'll take any version of windows over a Mac (maybe with the exception of ME).

Right on. I still do prefer 8 over 7. If you can get past the annoying Start screen it's got lots of great improvements. You can reinstall the OS easily from within the OS. Better battery life for laptops and tablets. Faster boot and shut-down times than 7. Installs faster. Overall Win8/8.1 is more responsive and feels quicker which is more important than how it actually performs, even though it does actually perform better.

Windows 10 so far is just an evolution of this. Just like Windows 7 was what Vista should have been, 10 is going to be what 8 should have been. but honestly an OS is so complicated I do understand that it takes time to get it right.

Microsoft took a huge gamble with Windows 8, and it looks like it might finally pay off with Windows 10. The free upgrades from 7 are really going to help adoption rates. It's my opinion that they should have included Vista in that upgrade path to see an even faster migration (plenty of people out there running Vista that can't justify spending lots of money to upgrade to 7 or 8, but would like to move on from Vista).

Microsoft services (Microsoft Store, Office Web Apps, Microsoft Office 2013/265, Outlook.com, Windows Phone, etc) are all tied into Windows 10, bring it a helluva lot closer to how well Apple's ecosystem works. I don't like Apple, I don't like Mac OS, and I don't like iOS - but that shit does work well together, which is something Microsoft has been unable to master until now.

[ratdude747]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Just run it in a VM. I prefer VMWare Workstation myself but I'm sure something free like VirtualBox would be ok for testing.

That's not a real test IMHO. A real test is a real install running on it's own.

[c_hegge]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Windows 10 is going to be great - I've been previewing it. Very excited for its release.

It looks like it will be an improvement over Windows 8, but from 7, it's a side-grade at best. Then again, I'll take any version of windows over a Mac (maybe with the exception of ME).

[shovenose]

Re: Your opinion of Apple

Just run it in a VM. I prefer VMWare Workstation myself but I'm sure something free like VirtualBox would be ok for testing.