Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

[cremator]

A friend of mine gave me his old P4 Machine and it runs perfectly fine for now, the motherboard is a MSI 875p Neo ...I did notice about 6 swollen KGZ caps and the board has ~ 13 KGZs. I could recap yes (I have done it once but wasn't perfectly comfortable with it) but if I can find something decent enough in price I'd rather just replace it. The Abit IC7-G was suggested but I'm not going to spend $100 for a P4 board. Anyone know any decent replacements? Hell I'd even consider trading the MSI board for one that works and doesnt have any bad caps..

[ratdude747]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

anything p4= good chance of a recap. unless it has poly caps, expect 4 out of 5 to need a recap due to a bad mix of popular crap caps (sacon and OST come to mind here) and high heat CPUs.

ABIT= recap now or later. unless the abit already was recapped with good caps, it too will fail. $100 down the drain

get better with recapping and do the MSI. they tend to do well after a recap.

what tools did you do your last recap with? what kind of iron/station (wattage and brand, model a plus)? what method(s) of solder removal? what part are you uncomfortable with?

[c_hegge]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

Where are you located? If you're in the US, you could send it to topcat to recap. I find that most boards based on Intel 865 chipsets are usually pretty good.

@ratdude747, Abit used only rubycon on most of their skt. 478 boards. I've seen quite a few IS-7s and that was all they had

[cremator]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

I'm mostly uncomfortable with the cleaning of the old capacitor holes. My friend and I used his station and it seemed like the only way to get the old caps out was to add new solder first. I "felt" like we were ripping the leads or frying the board... I am going to get my own station so maybe it will be better next go round. If you think the board is worth keeping I'll just give it another go with better equiptment. His station is a Elenco Electronics SL-5. He loaned it to others and it got abused (left on without tinning). What's a decent iron then? I'll kill 2 birds. Edit: we removed caps by leaning one side first. Then used new caps to slightly push in. It was successful but tedious because old solder wasn't melting quite as easily

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

Get a SS needle *slightly larger than the diameter of cap leads and an all metal exacto knife handle to clean holes before installing the new caps.
Needle on one side, iron on the other until the needle passes through.
Then clean excess solder and remove needle by first 'spinning' it in the hole to break it free if it's stuck.
~~ !! No real force, that might bust the via. - If need be reheat & re-do vs using force.
.

[ratdude747]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

I'm mostly uncomfortable with the cleaning of the old capacitor holes. My friend and I used his station and it seemed like the only way to get the old caps out was to add new solder first. I "felt" like we were ripping the leads or frying the board... I am going to get my own station so maybe it will be better next go round. If you think the board is worth keeping I'll just give it another go with better equiptment. His station is a Elenco Electronics SL-5. He loaned it to others and it got abused (left on without tinning). What's a decent iron then? I'll kill 2 birds. Edit: we removed caps by leaning one side first. Then used new caps to slightly push in. It was successful but tedious because old solder wasn't melting quite as easily

you ALWAYS add fresh solder to clear holes. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS.

one method that works is desoldering braid. see a video i did on it (make sure you have annotations ON):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L4iv_m0ZgE

the $11 dollar radioshack desolderirons also work well... mastering them takes a lot of explaining but they do the job well.

needle picks work in a pinch but i don't like them all that well. sourcing SS needles is hard... all the ones i have found are nickle plated (good for 2 uses per needle before the plating fails).

solder suckers are best for single layer things like power supplies... the do's and don'ts of those are also a long story.

what matters is finding what works for you. it took me 3 years and some dumb luck to settle on the radioshack desoldering iron witht h the braid and sucker being alternate methods (have used needle when all else failed)

for irons, the best deal i have seen is the ~$20 xytronic 258. grounded, 30w, temp controlled, high quality replaceable tips (of varying shapes and sizes).

my other recapping video on installing the caps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op-UQLcH5Rc

what area do you live in? if you were near or in Louisville, KY, I'd be willing to give some lessons/pointers.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

SS needles are easy.
They sell them like EVERYWHERE, including Walmart,,, were you work...
.
You can get the all metal handle at home depot or most crafts shops.
.

[yyonline]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

I bought a set of stainless steel dental picks at an arts and crafts store. They're not medical grade, but they work well and show no signs of deteriorating after plenty of use.

[Mad_Professor]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

I'm mostly uncomfortable with the cleaning of the old capacitor holes. My friend and I used his station and it seemed like the only way to get the old caps out was to add new solder first. I "felt" like we were ripping the leads or frying the board... I am going to get my own station so maybe it will be better next go round. If you think the board is worth keeping I'll just give it another go with better equiptment. His station is a Elenco Electronics SL-5. He loaned it to others and it got abused (left on without tinning). What's a decent iron then? I'll kill 2 birds. Edit: we removed caps by leaning one side first. Then used new caps to slightly push in. It was successful but tedious because old solder wasn't melting quite as easily

It's all based on experience, I've only started like maybe... 7 or 8 months ago. I've gotten pretty decent using what I had around the house. An old wellers 25w micropoint iron with a chisel tip, and some old leaded solder. Not much has changed except for desoldering braid and knowledge.

I leave my iron on for long periods without tinning. It's probably a bad habit I'm doing to my iron and tip, but I do clean my iron after each use of it with a wet sponge.

If it was my board, I would recap it. Cheaper then buying a new one.

It is easier to add solder and move the cap forwards and backwards *not too much or you'll damage the track/trace* while jumping back and forth between the two leads/holes until the cap is removed. Then use a dental pick or sewing pin on the other side and heat the solder in the track/hole with the iron and push through with the pin.

I've gotten pretty good with this method and I would recommend it due to it's ease, and quick and dirty. My contact time is barely 3 seconds for removal followed by 1-2 seconds for opening the hole and then 2-3 seconds for installations. Of course during the breaks between the board has time to cool off.

Another method I found recently is to get a heat gun and preheat the board and then focus on area of work. Be sure to have it set to low or 350-500 at a decent distances and work quickly with the iron and de-soldering braid or you'll risk scorching the board or blowing a cap/component or SMD chips falling off on the otherside.

It works but it's complicated and having a heat gun in your face is kind of a hazard because it could fall off it's mount and burn you or set the place on fire.
Typically I don't have to do this unless I get a board with stubborn solder or solder seeps deep through the hole to the other side and my iron's heat alone can't reach it unless I have long contact time.

All you need is practice my friend.

Get some dead boards that can't be fixed and practice on it, and use cheap solder. Save the good stuff for real work.

[cremator]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

what area do you live in? if you were near or in Louisville, KY, I'd be willing to give some lessons/pointers.

Newnan, GA. I won't say my last attempt was unsucessful, but I believe the board was fried before I recapped so I ended up with same result I had before recapping (Powering on then instantly off) and more or less it was discouraging and left questions..like if it hadn't been fried would it have worked...I am gonna order some caps for the board, and in the mean time I'll practice removal and such on the fried board..

[cremator]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

Also what I did at the time to clear the holes was clip the new caps by about half and used the excess pin and needle nose pliers to heat the backside and slip it through the top..I'll look into some less temporary tools this weekend.

[ratdude747]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

SS needles are easy.
They sell them like EVERYWHERE, including Walmart,,, were you work...
.
You can get the all metal handle at home depot or most crafts shops.
.

funny, last time i went there looking for, the only ones they had weren't marked as either. i tried them and they were plated. SS must be more common in your area.

for a handle, i would usually glue on a small wire nut... keeps it nice and compact.

if i ever see the picks, i may buy one to try and test... but my methods i have works, so i'm happy.

[Sparkey55]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

Hello. What I use is a 60W Weller pencil iron with a few inches of #10 gauge copper wire wrpped around the soldering tip. Leave about a quarter inch sticking out then slightly flatten the wire end, works good for me. Also if you have large copper grnd planes start in the center and work outwards from there, makes it easy to get the heat uniform.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

Seems to me SS needles are the most common type if for no other reason that it's next to impossible to get an ultra sharp point on something you are going to electroplate.

I tried dental picks but all I could find were all too fat or had handles that would melt.

I did find something similar to a dental pick made of titanium that was intended for working with jewelery [titanium is also non-stick to solder] but semi-pure titanium alloys are so flimsy it was like trying to push a wet spaghetti noodle through a hole.
.

[ratdude747]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

dollar store needle- nickelplate
walmart needle- pyr creative (i think)- nickelplate (or other plating)
dritz needles- plated too.

SS is expensive and for sewing plated works just as well so they plate to maximize profits.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

How do you know how much they cost if you didn't find any?
Online for Each they run $1 or $2 and ten packs under $5.

Yup that's totally extortionate for a tool that will last years.
.

[ratdude747]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

casuse i know SS is an expensive material.

kinda like titanium...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

And Nickle. The precious metal they make coins out of.

[ratdude747]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

its plated... hence the problem. plating is cheap since so little of the precious metal is used.

plated needle work at first... but after 2 or so uses, the plating wears off and exposes the cheap steel that does accept solder...

SS needles don't have that problem.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Socket 478 Motherboard?

After the cost of the -process- of plating [chemicals, tanks, electricity, bodies with hands] there isn't much room for a difference in manufacturing costs.
.