Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

[zeus]

I'm recapping an old HV power supply for a vector monitor. There are three lytics on this board, two are Rubycon and one is Elna. I'd like to identify what old series these caps are, (general purpose, low ESR, Hi Freq, etc.).

1st cap: Rubycon, baby blue w/ black text, 47uF/50v/85°c
Markings:
CE w
KR M02
85°c

2nd cap: Rubycon, baby blue w/ black text, 4.7uF/160v/85°c
Markings:
CE w
Ø 20
S.C.
85°c

3rd cap: ELNA, dark blue w/ white text, 470uF/50v/85°c
Markings:
CE 85°c
92 K V (with circles around the letters)

What do you guys think?

I'll thank you all ahead of time for your input.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

85C caps are usually general purpose parts. IIRC, VR or VZ is a GP series from Nichicon and SMG and KMG are GP series from UCC. Some or all are available from Digi-Key. Any of those should be better than the 20-YO GP caps. The KMG series is a 105C series, BTW, which might be a worthwhile improvement.

[zeus]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

85C caps are usually general purpose parts. IIRC, VR or VZ is a GP series from Nichicon and SMG and KMG are GP series from UCC. Some or all are available from Digi-Key. Any of those should be better than the 20-YO GP caps. The KMG series is a 105C series, BTW, which might be a worthwhile improvement.

I know some hi-freq caps are 85c, and 20 years ago some low esr caps may have been 85c also.
Just want to make sure exact series caps are used, these old vector monitors are very sensitive
to replacement components if their not the right ones.

BTW, what is IIRC?

[Krankshaft]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

Whoa that block soldered next to the flyback with the HV wire going into it is a voltage tripler this thing must be really old .

I thought they stopped using external triplers during the early transistor era.

Modern flybacks have the tripler diodes moulded into the transformer case.

Those caps are classic oldies no relief stamp on the top vent. I recapped an old line connected GE radio with a cement line dropping resistor in it that heats up a storm.

The only 1000uf filter cap on the boards vent looked fine however on removal its bung was beginning to press out. So looks on those old caps can be decieving.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

I know some hi-freq caps are 85c, and 20 years ago some low esr caps may have been 85c also.

I started working with SMPSs, and low ESR caps, in 1980. The good low ESR series back then were Nichicon's PA series, UCC's RX and RZ series and Sprague's 672D, 673D and 674D. They were all rated for 105C.

[zeus]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

Whoa that block soldered next to the flyback with the HV wire going into it is a voltage tripler this thing must be really old

Actually, the service manual has that block listed as a doubler and yes,
it's old as dirt but works. If that doubler goes out, you can throw the
monitor way, the same goes for the flyback. As no replacements are made.


PeteS: So we've ruled out low ESR caps, what about hi-frequency ones.
This HV board has a Hartley oscillator circuit that operates at 25KHz.
Go easy on me with those acronyms, LOL, I don't know all the brand
names.

BTW,
What does IIRC mean?
What does SMPSs mean?

[Krankshaft]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

BTW,
What does IIRC mean?
What does SMPSs mean?

IIRC = If I Recall/Remember Correctly

SMPS = Switch Mode Power Supply

Those caps are far too old to have datasheets online unless someone scanned the original print datasheets somewhere.

That would be the easiest way to get to the bottom of this.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

UCC = United Chemicon

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly

SMPS = Switched Mode Power Supply

GP lytics can work at high frequencies, but if you want lytics that handle significant ripple currents at higher frequencies, you need low impedance (ESR) parts, which are also rated for 105C. SMPSs of early 80s vintage operated at 20-50 KHz and output caps hand to handle large ripple currents. Low impedance lytics would work fine in your application. They would be overkill, though and possibly more expensive than high quality GP caps..

[gonzo0815]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

I would suggest some Panasonic FC or FM, quite expensive but it is a definite improvement in this old TV`s.
Apart from that, any good 85°c capacitor series from any of the recommended brands should do the trick.
Data sheets for CE Series from Elna and from Rubycon are available from the manufacturers site.
Those same series are very common in Grundig TV`s, where i have replaced them with Panasonic FM, FC and ED.

In Germany you can buy tripplers for nearly any TV set. And even some Grundig 100hz TV`s are equipped with those (and yes, there are uControlers in them, so it isn`t that old).
Sadly those tripplers aren`t lasting too long, at least from my limited experience.

[zeus]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

I think you guys may have hit on something here. I've been fighting a ripple,
or shimmy problem on a WG V2000 19" vector monitor for months.

Check this out: (click on the pic)




Now, this ripple only happens on text, and only in the upper right corner of the
screen which is X+ and Y+ section of the monitor. Would low impedance lytics
solve this annoying problem?

[tvtech]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

I would suspect the low voltage supply for the ripple you are experencing on the above monitor,probabaly a dried out cap in the power supply.However yes I think low esr caps would be a benefit due to the extremely sensitve oscillator in these monitors.What year is this from,it looks to be late 70's because of the fly using an external doubler diode but you should be able to replace these with GOOD quality modern general purpose caps.

[zeus]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

I would suspect the low voltage supply for the ripple you are experencing on the above monitor,probabaly a dried out cap in the power supply.However yes I think low esr caps would be a benefit due to the extremely sensitve oscillator in these monitors.What year is this from,it looks to be late 70's because of the fly using an external doubler diode but you should be able to replace these with GOOD quality modern general purpose caps.

Excellent I'll check the low voltage side tonight, I know there're some lytics in that circuit.
I've got an ESR meter on the way and should be here tomorrow. I'm hoping this meter will
take the guesswork out of comparing old lytics with new ones.

Yes, the monitor is from a Lunar Lander I'm restoring (1979). Just need to get the game
board and monitor working. Right now I'm using an Asteroids game board to fix the monitor,
and then on to fixing the Lunar Lander game board. These old vector arcades are fun as
hell to work on.

Thanks again guys for all your help!

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

I'd suggest considering replacing all the lytics. They're nearly 30 years old. We had to do that recently with a lab supply ... 30 year old Sprague 30D series axials.

[Krankshaft]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

Speaking of Sprague I've heard that they're now owned by Vishay how is their quality?

Did it diminish or are they still good caps?

[Krankshaft]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

I'd suggest considering replacing all the lytics. They're nearly 30 years old. We had to do that recently with a lab supply ... 30 year old Sprague 30D series axials.

I have radial Sprague and Mallory caps in my late 70s early 80s Tektronix 465 scope and they're still working great.

They must have really sealed the cans well.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Need help identifying 20yr old lytics

IIRC, Sprague lytics and tantalums got split two or three ways. Some of the lytics went to UCC. Maybe the tantalums went to Vishay. The old disc ceramics division got spun off in the late 70s or early 80s as an independent company, Cera-Mite ... which is now part of Vishay.