Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

[liukuohao]

Hi All,

It is about time, I attempt to replace 11 units of Sanyo capacitors.
There are 1500uf, 6.3V, diameter = 10mm.
As usual, I am bit confused about which Sanyo capacitors to use.
Besides that, Sanyo don't make capacitors any more, information on
replacement ones are hard to find.

I have found some Low Profile version from this eBay seller from UK.
Check out this link:http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/SANYO-Low...item4ad04791a7

Are these Low Profile Sanyo capacitors any good???
Would they able to stand the heat? (since I am living in the
tropical country)

Please see the attached picture of some bulging Sanyo capacitors.

Your advice is most appreciated.

Thank you.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Don't buy caps on eBay, 90% of them are fakes, including the ones you've linked.

Badcaps.net sells capacitors, here is one example:
https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...roducts_id=147

But do post what series of Sanyo caps yours are, it's written on the opposite side of the cap from where you have taken the pictures... (The linked capacitor above might be too low ESR, it's usually not a problem for a CPU VRM though)

Also take a look at your power supply, it might have bad caps too because Sanyo failures are extremely rare...

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Don't buy caps on eBay, 90% of them are fakes, including the ones you've linked.

Badcaps.net sells capacitors, here is one example:
https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...roducts_id=147

But do post what series of Sanyo caps yours are, it's written on the opposite side of the cap from where you have taken the pictures... (The linked capacitor above might be too low ESR, it's usually not a problem for a CPU VRM though)

Also take a look at your power supply, it might have bad caps too because Sanyo failures are extremely rare...

In the past, I did bought a capacitor kit from Badcaps.net store.
But, because of the currency conversion, the international shipping
cost a lot. That is why I turned to eBay, to source out replacement
capacitors. I won't go to my local RS store because their capacitors
are really costly.

Is there anyway to differentiate the fakes and real ones on the eBay?

Currently the motherboard is being used as a Linux Firewall at 24/7
operation, to find the series, I need to do another round of checking.
Which is a real hassle, because some users cannot use the internet.
Does it really matter though?

Anyway, even since, I detected the capacitors are bulging,
I immediately took off old cheap Power Supply Unit and thrown out
to the bin.

So, at the moment, for this mini project, I am actually sourcing out
2nd hand Power Supply Unit
(not really care about the watts, 300-400 watts will suffice)
I am think of getting the ANTEC Power Suppy Unit on eBay.
I heard that ANTEC is a good brand.

and...

Also sourcing out replacement capacitors for this motherboard.

Thank you.

[999999999]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Hi All,

It is about time, I attempt to replace 11 units of Sanyo capacitors.
There are 1500uf, 6.3V, diameter = 10mm.
As usual, I am bit confused about which Sanyo capacitors to use.
Besides that, Sanyo don't make capacitors any more, information on
replacement ones are hard to find.

I have found some Low Profile version from this eBay seller from UK.
Check out this link:http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/SANYO-Low...item4ad04791a7

Are these Low Profile Sanyo capacitors any good???
Would they able to stand the heat? (since I am living in the
tropical country)

Please see the attached picture of some bulging Sanyo capacitors.

Your advice is most appreciated.

Thank you.

There is no reason to pick old Sanyo capacitors. Don't get Sanyos and especially not those low profile capacitors. Particularly you should choose a major brand new stock designed for very low ESR.

You did not mention specifically what price range your other alternatives are, nor what is considered "very costly". I don't know what hardware is worth there, but due to the very old age and that it is not proprietary but rather a plain consumer grade ATX motherboard, that motherboard is probably worth less than the cost of good capacitors to fix it.

Here is what I recommend for all the failed ones that are 6.3V, 1500uF Panasonic FM series. They also make other voltages if needed.
http://malaysia.rs-online.com/web/p/...itors/5260976/

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

999999999

Thanks for the advice.

At the moment, I most likely going to buy the Panasonic,
since it cheaper than the Low Profile Sanyo capacitors
found at this link: http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/SANYO-Low...item4ad04791a7

Reason being....

(1) Most likely capacitors are fake/imitation when buying from eBay.
(2) The cost of getting Panasonic capacitor is cheaper than the Sanyo ones at eBay.

Currently, there are 2 options available:

Panasonic FM series: http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.c...6b805f3abe.pdf
Note: Endurance : 2000 to 7000 hours at +105°C

Panasonic FR series: http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.c...6b80e4e9bf.pdf
Note: Endurance: 5000 h to 10000 h at +105 °C

I am considering on buying the FR series due to its higher endurance factor,
and not to mention higher cost than the FM series. It will be good to have it
since the motherboard is working at 24/7operation. Any advice?

I don't know what hardware is worth there, but due to the very old age and that it is not proprietary but rather a plain consumer grade ATX motherboard, that motherboard is probably worth less than the cost of good capacitors to fix it.

Yes, it is true that I may as well chuck this old motherboard away, just buy
another one from eBay.

But my main reason of coming to forum and get motherboard replace with
new capacitor is for the learning experience!

Also the motherboard has got some sentimental value to me

Thanks.

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Hrrrr.....the Panasonic FR series capacitor has got a smaller diameter = 8mm, does not
fit well for replacing a capacitor with 10mm. I think position of the lead hole will not
be the same, right?

Please see the attached pics.

[999999999]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Yes, if you want longer service life then consider the FR caps, but the motherboard is so old already that I didn't think it was worth the extra money. Do not drop down in diameter, use 10mm caps, the largest diameter that will fit.

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Yes, if you want longer service life then consider the FR caps, but the motherboard is so old already that I didn't think it was worth the extra money. Do not drop down in diameter, use 10mm caps, the largest diameter that will fit.

Ok, I will get the FM series. Thanks for the advice!!!

[999999999]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Be sure to replace all of them pictured, not just the ones that bulged. Actually if there are some similar near the chipset, memory or southbridge, those would be good to replace too as they may also be near end of life, but I think mainly it was the heat that killed the Sanyos.

In that generation of Athlon platform, motherboards often did not support HALT idle correctly (or it was disabled) so they used a lot of power and produced a lot of heat even when they weren't under much of a load.

An additional measure that might help reduce heat is to mount a 2nd fan over that row of capacitors. Something looks a little strange about the way you have the CPU heatsink fan installed in the picture, but otherwise the 2nd fan could be screwed to the mounting holes on the existing fan so you wouldn't need to figure out an alternative mounting bracket for it.

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Be sure to replace all of them pictured, not just the ones that bulged. Actually if there are some similar near the chipset, memory or southbridge, those would be good to replace too as they may also be near end of life, but I think mainly it was the heat that killed the Sanyos.

In that generation of Athlon platform, motherboards often did not support HALT idle correctly (or it was disabled) so they used a lot of power and produced a lot of heat even when they weren't under much of a load.

An additional measure that might help reduce heat is to mount a 2nd fan over that row of capacitors. Something looks a little strange about the way you have the CPU heatsink fan installed in the picture, but otherwise the 2nd fan could be screwed to the mounting holes on the existing fan so you wouldn't need to figure out an alternative mounting bracket for it.

HALT idle- Asus A7V-SM does not support it, very interesting, where did
you know about this information?

Heat? may be right, but I really think is the lousy cheap PSU (you know
those really dirt cheap PSU that does not weight a lot compare to the good
quality ones) really kill those good Sanyo capacitors when it is running
non stop at 24/7 operation.

I have another motherboard which also using Sanyo capacitors but it was
running on a good quality PSU, and the PSU weights a lot heavier than
those cheap PSU. I have not seen any of the Sanyo capacitors bulging.
And for your information, the motherboard is a Asus P3V4X, it was the
first motherboard that I owed back in 1999 and it is still running now, at
24/7 operation.

Anyway, regarding about the Fan. Yes, the Fan looks funny....
very observant....the original FAN's blades were broken, I had
to find another 3 pin replacement FAN that is obviously not meant
for the original Heat Sink, and as you probably know I tied together
with some flexible insulated single core copper wire.
Currently, it is using a new PSU which has a fan blowing out hot
air from its internal heat, that will also draw a fair bit of heat
away from the motherboard, and plus the PSU is sitting right on top
of the CPU Fan and heat sink. Because, I using a very old mirco atx
tower casing, it does not provide a rear grill for you to place a case fan.

[999999999]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

HALT idle- Asus A7V-SM does not support it, very interesting, where did
you know about this information?

I don't recall the original source but motherboard manufacturers commonly disabled it because they found the warranty return rates were too high because many budget PSU could not transition the 5V rail fast enough from idle to a high load state for Athlon CPU of the era, and users ended up blaming the wrong components. Unfortunately the situation even persisted in some cases where there was almost no purpose at all, once newer Athlon platforms had switched to using PSU 12V rail for CPU power instead of PSU 5V rail.

There are methods of toggling chipset register bits once the OS has booted to re-enable HALT idle's effectiveness at saving power, but it has been so long since I have dealt with the issue that I don't remember all the finer details of doing it. For example here is one utility claiming to do it, but I don't know if it can do it alone or still needs the chipset bit flipped separately to work:
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/deta...oftcooler.html

Heat? may be right, but I really think is the lousy cheap PSU (you know
those really dirt cheap PSU that does not weight a lot compare to the good
quality ones) really kill those good Sanyo capacitors when it is running
non stop at 24/7 operation.

The board is now about 13 to 14 years old. That's more than should be expected, if it had worse capacitors than Sanyos then they probably would have failed a long time ago.

I have another motherboard which also using Sanyo capacitors but it was running on a good quality PSU, and the PSU weights a lot heavier than
those cheap PSU. I have not seen any of the Sanyo capacitors bulging.
And for your information, the motherboard is a Asus P3V4X, it was the
first motherboard that I owed back in 1999 and it is still running now, at
24/7 operation.

Of course a good PSU can help but at the same time, that's not an Athlon board so the HALT idle likely worked on it. Plus it is hard to really compare because these two boards could have led different service lives over the dozen plus years they have existed.

Anyway, regarding about the Fan. Yes, the Fan looks funny....
very observant....the original FAN's blades were broken, I had
to find another 3 pin replacement FAN that is obviously not meant
for the original Heat Sink, and as you probably know I tied together
with some flexible insulated single core copper wire.
Currently, it is using a new PSU which has a fan blowing out hot
air from its internal heat, that will also draw a fair bit of heat
away from the motherboard, and plus the PSU is sitting right on top
of the CPU Fan and heat sink. Because, I using a very old mirco atx
tower casing, it does not provide a rear grill for you to place a case fan.

I would see whether there is space to cut a hole in the case side panel and mount a 92mm (or 120mm if it will fit) there as an intake fan.

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7S-VM motherboard

I don't recall the original source but motherboard manufacturers commonly disabled it because they found the warranty return rates were too high because many budget PSU could not transition the 5V rail fast enough from idle to a high load state for Athlon CPU of the era, and users ended up blaming the wrong components. Unfortunately the situation even persisted in some cases where there was almost no purpose at all, once newer Athlon platforms had switched to using PSU 12V rail for CPU power instead of PSU 5V rail.

There are methods of toggling chipset register bits once the OS has booted to re-enable HALT idle's effectiveness at saving power, but it has been so long since I have dealt with the issue that I don't remember all the finer details of doing it. For example here is one utility claiming to do it, but I don't know if it can do it alone or still needs the chipset bit flipped separately to work:
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/deta...oftcooler.html



The board is now about 13 to 14 years old. That's more than should be expected, if it had worse capacitors than Sanyos then they probably would have failed a long time ago.



Of course a good PSU can help but at the same time, that's not an Athlon board so the HALT idle likely worked on it. Plus it is hard to really compare because these two boards could have led different service lives over the dozen plus years they have existed.



I would see whether there is space to cut a hole in the case side panel and mount a 92mm (or 120mm if it will fit) there as an intake fan.

Hi 999999999,

Thank you for sharing.

I made an error in my opening title, the motherbaord should be A7S-VM motherboard and
not A7V-SM. The motherboard is using SIS chipset.
According to your link given, the HALT feature is not applicable to SIS
chipset. Besides that, I am using Linux OS not Windows, so it won't apply to
my case. Please see the pic. attached.
Thank you.

[999999999]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

^ I had wondered why I couldn't find a picture of an A7V with caps where yours where.

I see now that some of them did have the yellow Rubycon solid capacitors, but unfortunately they budgetized and didn't use them where they put the Sanyos.

I don't know if the chipset register(s) can be flipped on that chipset or not. An alternate method without software was to directly edit a bios image to start out that way and then flash that to the board, but I can't remember enough about the process to continue investigating it.

It is probably best to just leave it as is. That it survived over a dozen years was good and the Panasonic FM capacitors are a better cap than the Sanyos they would replace.

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Phew..... after spending much time and a help from a clamp vice,
eventually those 11 pcs of Sanyo caps were out for good.

Having a few weeks of non-stop work and baby sitting my daughter,
I finally have some free time to continue this recapping work on my
ASUS A7S-VM motherboard ( YES, I made a blunder, it is actually an
A7S-VM and not A7V-SM, I made an error on my title for my post)
Now, I can proceed and order the replacement Panasonic capacitors from
RS at my country.

I must admit getting out the caps requires a bit of technique / skill,
for sucking up the solder.

Tip: never do desoldering on a motherboard that is lying upside down
flat on the table, if you DO NOT have a proper, expensive desoldering
vacuum gun, because from experience, some solder will flow back into
to the tiny hole, then getting out the solder will be difficult, and you are
likely to ruin the soldering pad. As for me, I used a cheap desoldering build-in
with a manual suction vacuum pump. I clamped the motherboard with
some anti-static form using a vice, lock in an upright postition.
I did my desoldering at 90 degrees angle, so when the solder heated up,
flowing back to the hole will not be minimized and hence it would not block
the tiny hole.

I have attached some pictures for your viewing.

Question is do I need to replace 1 unit of Rubycon XYG 6.3v 1500uF cap,
located at the RAM slot (see the right most pic attached)??? It does looks
fine to me. I have missed out this cap.

[999999999]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

^ I doubt that you need to replace the Rubycon cap in question, although it would of course be a more complete recap if you did.

In a pinch you can keep the holes you desoldered open by inserting a dental pick while the solder is molten, and moving it around slightly as the solder hardens so the tool is not soldered to the board.

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Hmm....I am wondering, if you are going to insert a dental pick,
I need to be very fast in poking in the tiny hole, right?? If not,
then the solder get harden before you have a chance of moving
it around.

I never grasp this idea of inserting a dental pick, besides,
my dental pick (in general, readily available) is not smaller
than the tiny hole diameter side of 1mm. So it is not possible
to push the dental pick in.

So, to substitute the dental pick, here is another tip:
I use a sharp tip electric solder, let it contact the topside of
the motherboard's tiny hole, do not push in yet, let the remaining solder
melt first, and gently push in. If you push in too soon, you may ruin
the soldering pad on the underside of the motherboard.

While one hand is holding the electric solder (still inserted into
the tiny hole, at this point, solder has are already melted, and the
tip is now emerging on underside of the motherboard). I grab another
desoldering manual pump with a diameter tip of 1mm on my right hand,
place it on the same hole, but on the underside of the motherboard,
when I am ready, I release the plunger of the manual pump, and
hopefully it will suck out the remaining solder.

[999999999]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

^ You heat the solder with the soldering iron while inserting the dental pick, which of course would have to be thin enough to fit. Dental picks are available in sizes smaller than soldering iron tips so I don't understand how you can find the very rare sub-1mm soldering iron tip but not the dental pick, but regardless you could instead use a needle, with the head cut off and pushed into a mechanical pencil to hold it. I think everyone can find a needle small enough.

Another option is narrow desoldering wick, or trimming the capacitor leads ahead of time and rocking it in, or using a heat gun and shield... whatever works for you.

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Today afternoon, I received the package from RS component,
In the package, I received 20 pcs of......

Panasonic 6.3V 1500uf 10mm diameter FM series capacitors.
See the pic attached below.

I will find a suitable time to install these new caps on motherboard,
most probably on the weekends.

[momaka]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

...or trimming the capacitor leads ahead of time and rocking it in

That's what I do, and it works just fine.

Before you rock the caps in, though, first you need to at least partially clear the holes (that is, you don't need to "see" through them, but just make indentations on the top side of the board where the capacitors go). I do that with a cork board tack/pin. Basically, just heat the hole on the motherboard with the iron, let solder melt, push with tack/pin on the other side of the board, remove solder iron and let solder cool (about 1 to 2 seconds), move or twist tack/pin around and pull (should pull out fairly easily). Once the holes are partially cleared, then position the cap and hold with hand (that cap will not stay by itself), then start rocking it in.

Here's how I do the walk/rock method:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...7&postcount=23
Note that the tutorial above is for removing caps. But for putting in caps, it's exactly the same, but you push the opposite way than what is shown in the pictures. I'm sure you've probably done it before with other components.

[liukuohao]

Re: Sanyo Capacitors Replacement job on Asus A7V-SM motherboard

Finally my weekend project of my capacitor replacement on the A7S-VM
motherbaord completed!!!

Now, I just need to get a decent Antec ATX PSU, and test the whole system
whether is it is running stably at 24/7 operation.

Initial test looks promising!!!

May be I need to get some fans as well just to cool off the capacitors + VRM,
MOSFETs.

Because the FAN is always blowing heat down the heat sink and that
is where the VRM MOSFETs + capacitors are located.

Last but not least, I would like to thank to those who guided me
in getting my little project of capacitor replacement a success!!!