Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

[badhat]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

I thought the date codes on Nichicon caps (at least for HM, HN, and HZ) only begin with "H", not "B". Or am I missing something?

Audjade told me

"A" and "H" is used for Nichicons Japan plant
"B" is Malaysia.
"C" maybe China

I checked the color with Nichicon. They confirmed the "B" code and the copper color print for Malaysia.

A strange thing happened with my "H" code Nichicons. I realized that after passing so many times through my hands the golden print had turned into copper too.
(I wish it were the other way and my hands could turn copper into gold instead :-) )

I'm glad my Nichicons are ok. Thanks for your comments.

Best regards,
badhat

[Behemot]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

Just one thing though, yopu may not find anything suspicious. Chinese makers CAN do low and ultra-low ESR caps. The problem is they can withstand much less than japanese caps and tend to fail VERY quickly in harsh environment. But as new, they may have good parameters.

In other words, they may have just good capacity and ESR readings but you have no idea what it makes in week, month, year…

[badhat]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

I've checked all my cap stocks, PC boards and power supplies for Nichicons. All date codes I found (1998 - 2013) begin with "H". The "B" and the copper color make me believe my capacitors are not genuine.

I'll try to get a 100 kHz generator and an oscilloscope to make some measurements tonight. Any hints on how to measure ESR without an ESR meter?

[ben7]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

Are these alright? The only thing that concerns me is the colour of the bung, they are gray whereas I've only seen black bungs...

Those are fine, I've seen plenty of NCC caps with gray bungs

[Jooo]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

Are these alright? The only thing that concerns me is the colour of the bung, they are gray whereas I've only seen black bungs...

[momaka]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

I thought the date codes on Nichicon caps (at least for HM, HN, and HZ) only begin with "H", not "B". Or am I missing something?

[Behemot]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

I thought exactly the same about KYAs. Been just conforming myself, good manufacturers just don't have "a variation in the manufacturing".

[c_hegge]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

badhat's HZs are probably fine too. I'd say it's just a variation in the manufacturing, or maybe it's a bit faded.

[Behemot]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

yeah, I still wonder whether the NCC caps in post 1 just needed reforming too.

Don't think that is the problem. Cap/ESR meters usually use something like 0,1 V, capacitor needing reforming for such low voltage would be very very bad IMO.

[Behemot]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

No, only Rubycon used similar color for MCZ. The vent on the original is strange and the rimm around those bungs is somewhat „sharp“. Don't like these…you sure they are original? Been told the same…

[badhat]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

Hi,
yesterday I got a shipment of Nichicon HZ and HN 8x20mm size capacitors, 1000 uF, 16 and 10V from Audjade (China) via Ebay. I understand Audjade are trusted sellers specialised in high quality capacitors. However, what puzzles me is the color of the silk screen print. It looks more like copper than like gold.




Comparison with NZ from a trusted local reseller


Bungs look like original


Vent looks almost (better than?)...


...original. Well, Im comparing 8mm with 10mm caps.

I realised the copper colored prints are of higher resolution then the golden ones. Apart from the color the capacitors look quite good, like original. Has Nichicon switched to copper metallic laquer for the silk screen prints?

Best regards,
Badhat

[Behemot]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

They indeed are getting better. Mine KYAs were recignized visualy as fakes after all but I have checked capacitance/ESR as a first and all was OK, that is also why I was so sure from the begining. At least as the ESR Micro can tell with ESR minimum reading of 0,01 ohm (too high for many caps as they are specified under 0,01!).

[ben7]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

I don't have a variable psu so can't test that,but I will definitely keep these and try to reform them when I have one.

Its quite easy to make a variable PSU. Just a potentiometer, an op-amp, and a pass transistor on a heatsink (Other parts needed too, but they are capacitors, resistors, etc...)

[Jooo]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

yeah, I still wonder whether the NCC caps in post 1 just needed reforming too.

I don't have a variable psu so can't test that,but I will definitely keep these and try to reform them when I have one.

[c_hegge]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

yeah, I still wonder whether the NCC caps in post 1 just needed reforming too.

[momaka]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

Yeah, I think they are all genuine too.
I just haven't seen a Chinese manufacturer get everything right and make perfect fakes. They always screw up at least one thing somewhere. Usually the bungs. The more obvious ones don't even bother to get the vent stamp right.

[c_hegge]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

Those FJs are geniune. I've seen identical looking ones on motherboards. Same goes for the MBZs

[kc8adu]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

looks close to the 3300@16 i recently got from digikey.
the datestamp is now goldish rather than dark reddish maroon.

[mariushm]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

I only know of Panasonic FR to be silver on black. It's possible FJ being a oem only series to be made on the same line as the new FR series and use the same silver/white on black paint.

The stylized M looks fake to me, the bends at the bottom of the M are not round enough and overall seems a bit too big, the legs of the M should be curved to the insides, not at 90 degrees.

The bottoms are the panasonic style but it looks a bit weird, like it's not quite 100% panasonic but can't put my finger on it.

pictures below from 2200/16 panasonic fm and 3300/25 fr

[k1b0]

Re: Fake / counterfeit capacitors are getting better

They all look real to me. The panasonics have that sort of bung, and the rubycons have that bung too. The vents are stamped with the right shape too. Old rubycon MBZs were blue with gold lettering, but newer ones are just black with white lettering. Not sure why they changed it, but I know nippon chemi-con changed the sleeve color of their KZE caps from green to brown.

Well yes, I know about newer Rubycon black-and-white caps, but it's first time I see Panasonic in black-and-white