Taicon HH replacement?

[slap_happy]

I'm about to replace Taicon HH 1000uF/16v 10x25mm

I have on hand....Panasonic FM, and NCC KZH. Which of these two would be a better replacement.

I have compared the datasheets, but I would like other opinions anyway to doublecheck, because I had to remove heatsink to get to these caps and I never want to do it again.

[Dgtech]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

I dont know too much about the specific scientific approach to changing caps but I'd make sure that they are rated at high temp being under a heatsinks and all.

[mockingbird]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

Taicon HH
16V 1000uF 10x25:
0.018 2250(Actually, it's unlisted, so I go according to case size according to PCBONEZ)

KZH has not enough ripple and too high ESR.
FM is a near perfect match.
The 16V 1200uF part is even a better match. The 1000uF part is only 10x20 not 10x25.
Panasonic FM:
16v 1000uF: 0.019 2180 10x20
16v 1200uF: 0.018 2470 10x25

[slap_happy]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

Thanks mockingbird, you're great.

You're right, I'm sorry, the Taicon HH 1000uF 16v part in this power supply is actually 8x20.

http://www.taicon.com/product/pdf/hh.pdf

Taicon HH 1000uF 16v 8x20 0.033 0.11 1410

I had it confused with other Taicon HHs in this power supply, it is the HH 2200uf 16v used elsewhere on the board that is 10x25.

Thanks again. I will use the FM.

[mockingbird]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

In that case, you should NOT use the FM... An 8x20 KZH part is identical in spec to the HH:

16V 1000uF 0.033 1410

Taicon probably ripped off the spec from UCC...

If the cap is part of a pi filter, and you lower the ESR on one part of it, you will increase the ripple...

[slap_happy]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

Glad you caught that before I put them in.

But... the KZH I have are 10x16 and 1650, different than the KZH(8x20) at 1410.

I could use KY/10x20 at 1400, but the impedance is quite different than either of the KZH.


(all parts I'm referring to above are 1000uf/16v)

[mockingbird]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

It's ok, the impedance is only 0.001 Ohms less (0.032) with the 10x16 KZH vs the 8 x 20 KZH (0.033). KY impedance is a little too high. KZH is perfect.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

Taicon probably ripped off the spec from UCC...
...

Taicon + Nichicon = Kahoots
Nichicon owns like 1/3 of Taicon.
Unfortunately they don't supply their materials...
.
.

[slap_happy]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

Now I'm stumped on an equivalent for NCC KZH 2200uF 16v 10x25 0.018/0.054/2250

It must be 10mm. I tried to fit in KZE 12.5mm, but there is no chance for so many adjacent parts of that diameter to ever fit.

What's weird, is the datasheet for KZH doesn't even show a 10mm part for 2200uF/16v value - yet I have the used ones right in front of me.

It seems that 10mm high-value parts are the norm in power supplies, yet the parts themselves just can't be found in that size from any decent brands.

Thanks for any ideas...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

Manufacturers ordering custom cap sizes isn't all that uncommon.
Use the specs from the KZH data sheet for nearest same -physical- size cap.
The ESR and Ripple change with can size [not uF or volts] so all the KZH 10x25mm will have the same [or nearly the same] Ripple and ESR.
.
[Note: That 'trick' doesn't work with many cheap cap brands. Their data sheet specs are all over the place.]

[slap_happy]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

So, if I match the diameter and height, and the ESR and ripple are close, it doesn't matter if I use, say, 1500uF 10v in place of a 2200uF 16v part?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

No.
Ripple, ESR, uF, and Volts are all important to the circuit.
.
If you want to cross reference Ripple and ESR,
then, WITHIN A SERIES all the caps with the same can size will have the same Ripple and ESR.

Your original cap is not in the data sheet so you don't know the Ripple and ESR for it.
Look in the data sheet for the same make and series for a cap with the same can size.
- The Ripple and ESR will be the same as for your 'mystery cap'.

At that point you know the Ripple and ESR and volts and uF of the original mystery cap.
So, you then know everything you need to go hunting good replacements.

~~
Following now?
.
.

[yyonline]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

I thought we decided that KZH was an unreliable series much like KZG and KZJ, since they supposedly share some electrolyte components? In any case, KZH comes up so rarely that I have little first hand experience with it. I searched, but nothing jumped out at me to point me one way or the other.

[slap_happy]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

Ah, I see what you're getting at.

I had already done that detective work though, and posted the "best guess" specs a couples of messages back;

NCC KZH 2200uF 16v 10x25 0.018/0.054/2250

Problem is, when I go hunting for the cap, which I've also done a lot of already, I can't find any comparable spec cap in any brand with a 10mm diameter.

Guess I'll have to roll the dice on that auction site... there are a couple of listings for the 10mm KZH 2200uF 16v, but who knows if they're fresh/real and whatnot.

[slap_happy]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

I thought we decided that KZH was an unreliable series much like KZG and KZJ, since they supposedly share some electrolyte components? In any case, KZH comes up so rarely that I have little first hand experience with it. I searched, but nothing jumped out at me to point me one way or the other.

Maybe you guys did.

However, I mostly see the KZH series associated with the KZE series - in various documents from NCC.

The most common NCC parts I see in the secondary of power supplies (even new ones), are KZE, KY, and KZH (in that order).

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

I thought we decided that KZH was an unreliable series much like KZG and KZJ, since they supposedly share some electrolyte components? In any case, KZH comes up so rarely that I have little first hand experience with it. I searched, but nothing jumped out at me to point me one way or the other.

Not as far as I know.
.
I see them mostly in PSUs.
.

[yyonline]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

Ah, I see what you're getting at.

I had already done that detective work though, and posted the "best guess" specs a couples of messages back;

NCC KZH 2200uF 16v 10x25 0.018/0.054/2250

Problem is, when I go hunting for the cap, which I've also done a lot of already, I can't find any comparable spec cap in any brand with a 10mm diameter.

Guess I'll have to roll the dice on that auction site... there are a couple of listings for the 10mm KZH 2200uF 16v, but who knows if they're fresh/real and whatnot.

I'd probably go with Panasonic FK (10x30, 0.025Ω, 2140mA)for the 2200uF:
http://www.newark.com/panasonic/eeuf...16v/dp/32R8994

It's the closest you're going to get in 10mm and a reliable brand. It's slightly inferior to the one you're trying to replace, but your options are severely limited in 10mm size.

Samxon GD 16V 2200uF (10x25, 0.012Ω, 2800mA ripple) are still available from Big Pope last time I checked. Topcat no longer stocks them, and Samxon may have discontinued them.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

At this point I'm lost.
I thought you were replacing a 1000uF 16v?
That should be relatively easy in 10mm.
.

[slap_happy]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

At this point I'm lost.
I thought you were replacing a 1000uF 16v?
That should be relatively easy in 10mm.
.

I'm so sorry. I should have started a new thread.

With today's posts, I moved on to another cap value in this same power supply.

The 1000uF/16v part is finished.

Now I'm working on 2200uF/16v (w/10mm diameter, equivalent to NCC KZH or Taicon HH) - both have same specs.

I just noticed something about the four 2200uF/16v. They are all in parallel. Since space is tight, would two 4400uF/16v work?

[yyonline]

Re: Taicon HH replacement?

At this point I'm lost.
I thought you were replacing a 1000uF 16v?
That should be relatively easy in 10mm.
.

Yeah, I was confused, too. I think he was looking for a 1000uF 16v until post 9 when it switched to 16v 2200uF.