CEC Capacitors

[Spork Schivago]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Most of the old ones came with good caps but they are getting old. It improves the sond a great deal to use good quality modern caps like Panasonics and Nichicons. Mostly I use Nichicon KL series low noise for the audio path and PW series for everywhere else. In a lot of the older gear they used big power caps to help with big bass pulls.

Peevey was always the cheaper garage band brand. Marschall was what the big guys used. I remember Ted Nugent had a ramp behind his stacks. At the beginning of a concert he would run up the ramp and jump in front of the amps and speakers. You couldn't see him until he was airborne and he would land playing.

Rhomanski,

Because I still struggle with understanding the purpose of capacitors and how / why to use them in circuits, could you please explain how capacitors affect sound in these systems? And how replacing them with new ones improve the sound?

[rhomanski]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Most of the old ones came with good caps but they are getting old. It improves the sond a great deal to use good quality modern caps like Panasonics and Nichicons. Mostly I use Nichicon KL series low noise for the audio path and PW series for everywhere else. In a lot of the older gear they used big power caps to help with big bass pulls.

Peevey was always the cheaper garage band brand. Marschall was what the big guys used. I remember Ted Nugent had a ramp behind his stacks. At the beginning of a concert he would run up the ramp and jump in front of the amps and speakers. You couldn't see him until he was airborne and he would land playing.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Maybe it was Newark. It was the one affiliated with Farnell's. I think they told me they were owned by Farnell's so that would be Newark I guess.

At any rate it was six years ago and I found only Epcos and Panasonic making a 77mm cap of that voltage and capacitance. The original was 80 volts but no one made an 80 volt in that diameter. I could have changed out the metal mounting ring but instead just bumped it up in voltage. The original was 95mm tall and the replacement was 100mm. It just barely fit. I couldn't find anyone that carried the Panasonic, I only found it, on the Panasonic website.

I just checked and found some that might work and they are only $50 to $80. I would be worried 105mm might be too tall and I wouldn't be able to get the top screwed down without a bulge. Maybe I could though. Luckily the ones I found then barely fit, but they do fit just fine. It's been six years since I overhauled it and it works fine and still sounds better than anything I have ever heard before. That's why it's my favorite amp. I have more that are almost as good but none as good.

http://www.digikey.com/products/en/c...=0&pageSize=25 .

My friend Jay is like you, one of those musicians. He plays the keyboard sometimes, the bass sometimes, drums sometimes, but mainly, he's a guitar man. He's got guitars that costs a couple grand! They're insane looking. Some are electric and they have kinda like F holes in the side.

Anyway, he had something he called a stack. I think it was an amp. But the controls he said were never right. He couldn't get good sound out of it and traded it to Josh for some other one. I can figure out what names they were. I remember Peevy, but I don't know if that was it. I remember Marshal, but I don't remember if that was it. I know I fixed an old amp of his not too long ago, something called a Pignose. The tubes needed replacing. There's a potentiometer that needs replacing as well, but this thing is old and I doubt I'd be able to find the same pot.

Do replacing the capacitors in those amps with high quality ones generally make them sound much better?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: CEC Capacitors

I'd say on par with japanese caps.

What about those 3300/16 D10, wanna? AFAIK nobody else carries those. And I also have some samples of 390/400

No, I was able to get them from Mouser.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...lNsvGkkgnc0%3d

Who makes the 390uF 400Vs that you have? You're from another country, right? I bet that'd take a long time to get here. Things overseas almost always take forever. I'm from the states.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: CEC Capacitors

These models don't have PFC, do they?

What the large caps do on the primary side is take the DC signal from the bridge rectifier and smooth it.

Yea they were Cornell Dubilier SLPX series, specifically these. They were for a project from mid-2011 that didn't come to fruition, so they were perfect for the Enermax.

No one's 100% certain whether Epcos is a reliable brand or not. Someone here claimed they were junk a long time ago... Someone will almost certainly correct this if it's innacurate, but large primary caps don't usually need to be replaced with as much vigilance as small secondary caps because they're only filtering very low frequency ripple, so they're not nearly as stressed.

The exception to this would be primaries with a PFC circuit, where the large caps then do filter high-frequency ripple..

The only complaint about these old Enermax PSUs is that the stand-by circuit gets very hot even when the PC is shut down. But that's been covered here on this forum in great length in other threads, and it's a project for another day.

What are you doing with your Enermax?

Sorry for the delay in the response.

I still struggle very much with trying to understand capacitors. I think it's really one of the last few things I need to figure out before it all clicks and I can start making my own boards. I need to buy some hard covered books that will teach me stuff. Can you recommend any? I try using the internet to learn but every time I sit down at the PC, I get side track! I seem to learn best from actual printed books.

This isn't my Enermax. It's a customers. It was going back into his broken PC that he brought me to fix, but after we decided he wanted me to recap it, he made the decision that he was going to put it in his nicer system and take the PSU from the nicer system and put it in this broken HP (which, hopefully, won't be broken once the Enermax is recapped).

Do they talk about mods to fix that heat problem anywhere?

[rhomanski]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Maybe it was Newark. It was the one affiliated with Farnell's. I think they told me they were owned by Farnell's so that would be Newark I guess.

At any rate it was six years ago and I found only Epcos and Panasonic making a 77mm cap of that voltage and capacitance. The original was 80 volts but no one made an 80 volt in that diameter. I could have changed out the metal mounting ring but instead just bumped it up in voltage. The original was 95mm tall and the replacement was 100mm. It just barely fit. I couldn't find anyone that carried the Panasonic, I only found it, on the Panasonic website.

I just checked and found some that might work and they are only $50 to $80. I would be worried 105mm might be too tall and I wouldn't be able to get the top screwed down without a bulge. Maybe I could though. Luckily the ones I found then barely fit, but they do fit just fine. It's been six years since I overhauled it and it works fine and still sounds better than anything I have ever heard before. That's why it's my favorite amp. I have more that are almost as good but none as good.

http://www.digikey.com/products/en/c...=0&pageSize=25 .

[Behemot]

Re: CEC Capacitors

I'd say on par with japanese caps.

What about those 3300/16 D10, wanna? AFAIK nobody else carries those. And I also have some samples of 390/400

[Spork Schivago]

Re: CEC Capacitors

I bought two Epcos caps for my favorite amplifier. It is 22,000 uF @ 100V, 77mm x100mm. Digikey had two varieties available one was $200 the other was $100. The specs and manufacturers part number was exactly the same. Digikey said the expensive was in stock, the cheaper was in stock at Farnell and I'd have to wait an extra week for customs. Mouser had them for $200. I bought two from Farnell through Digikey for $200 total. I'll wait a week to save $200. I've ended up buying quite a few parts from Farnell's, just outside London, because it was cheaper, even with shipping.

Wait, why was one capacitor sooooo expensive? Just because of it's capacitance and voltage rating?

I wanted a 390uF 400V cap EPCOS for this PSU I'm rebuilding, although the Hitachi is fine. I thought that'd probably be the nicest cap I could put there. But I can't find any place that will sell just a single one. Mouser and Digikey don't have them in stock and I need to buy something like 240 of them if I want to place an order. I'm not familiar with Farnell. I just googled them and found a site called newark that has some but the wrong diameter.

Are those EPCOS really as good as some of the sites on the internet claim they are? The ones I were looking at had some sort of self-healing property, so if the dielectric dried up, they'd still work or something like that.

[Behemot]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Oh my, 100 bucks for a cap? You kidding me?

As for Enermax units, I have only seen some ancient ones here on photos without PFC (some AT maybe), everything else I've ever seen always had active, boost circuit.

[mockingbird]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Also, when you say primary caps, are you talking those big giant ones? I thought they were called PFC Booster Caps and I thought there was generally only one. I haven't heard of Cornell Dubilier, but I haven't heard of a lot of capacitor manufacturer names. I ran across a company called EPCOS, and that had one that looked real nice, for the PFC Booster Cap, but I'm not replacing that one. I think the one in this is a Hitachi HP3. Those EPCOS ones I was looking at, they said they were self-healing and had a really long lifetime rating of 10,000 hours @ 85c. But I'd have to buy a minimum of 240 and they're around 6$ - 7.50$ a pop!!!! I couldn't purchase that many of them, but boy, would I love to find one of them somewheres.

These models don't have PFC, do they?

What the large caps do on the primary side is take the DC signal from the bridge rectifier and smooth it.

Yea they were Cornell Dubilier SLPX series, specifically these. They were for a project from mid-2011 that didn't come to fruition, so they were perfect for the Enermax.

No one's 100% certain whether Epcos is a reliable brand or not. Someone here claimed they were junk a long time ago... Someone will almost certainly correct this if it's innacurate, but large primary caps don't usually need to be replaced with as much vigilance as small secondary caps because they're only filtering very low frequency ripple, so they're not nearly as stressed.

The exception to this would be primaries with a PFC circuit, where the large caps then do filter high-frequency ripple..

The only complaint about these old Enermax PSUs is that the stand-by circuit gets very hot even when the PC is shut down. But that's been covered here on this forum in great length in other threads, and it's a project for another day.

What are you doing with your Enermax?

[rhomanski]

Re: CEC Capacitors

I bought two Epcos caps for my favorite amplifier. It is 22,000 uF @ 100V, 77mm x100mm. Digikey had two varieties available one was $200 the other was $100. The specs and manufacturers part number was exactly the same. Digikey said the expensive was in stock, the cheaper was in stock at Farnell and I'd have to wait an extra week for customs. Mouser had them for $200. I bought two from Farnell through Digikey for $200 total. I'll wait a week to save $200. I've ended up buying quite a few parts from Farnell's, just outside London, because it was cheaper, even with shipping.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Also, when you say primary caps, are you talking those big giant ones? I thought they were called PFC Booster Caps and I thought there was generally only one. I haven't heard of Cornell Dubilier, but I haven't heard of a lot of capacitor manufacturer names. I ran across a company called EPCOS, and that had one that looked real nice, for the PFC Booster Cap, but I'm not replacing that one. I think the one in this is a Hitachi HP3. Those EPCOS ones I was looking at, they said they were self-healing and had a really long lifetime rating of 10,000 hours @ 85c. But I'd have to buy a minimum of 240 and they're around 6$ - 7.50$ a pop!!!! I couldn't purchase that many of them, but boy, would I love to find one of them somewheres.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Yeah, I figured you didn't actually need the datasheets anymore, but I've seen a lot of posts of people asking for them and when I used google to search for them, I was redirected here, so I thought hey, want not share in case someone else goes looking, you know what I mean?

I just happen to be recapping an Enermax PSU as well. I wanted to use some nicer caps that had a much longer lifetime (around 10,000 hours) but in some areas, I had to go for ones that only had 3,000 or so hours. It's because the caps that were on there where only 10mm in diameter (3,300uF and either 10v or 16v). They were sooooo close together that if you moved one of them, they'd all move. I could only find one capacitor that was 10mm in diameter at that capacitance and voltage rating. If I could have fit 12mm in diameter caps there, I could have gotten the 10,000 hour lifetime caps. That would have been nice!

[mockingbird]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Thanks Spork...

The Enermax PSU was re-capped a while ago with Rubycon ZLS (And two, nice Cornell Dubilier primary caps), and it's waiting to go into a K6-2 build (for old dos games)...

Still got those CEC caps sitting in a baggie here somewhere... It would be interesting to see how they test after all these years.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: CEC Capacitors

I know this is an extremely old thread, but I came here looking for those datasheets as well. I actually found the company that I think makes them now, JYE FWE Electronics Limited Co.

http://www.jyefwe.com/en/products.html

I've downloaded all of the datasheets from their website and have uploaded them in a .zip file, in case the site ever goes down and people need them.

The zip file contains datasheets for the following capacitors:

(SMD Type)
Pce-TGV
Pce-TRV
Pce-TSV

(General Type)
Pce-TUK
Pce-TUM
Pce-UMA
Pce-UMH

(Power Supply or High Frequency Type)
Pce-TEB
Pce-THZ
Pce-TLF
Pce-TPE
Pce-TPG
Pce-TUL
Pce-TUT
Pce-TUX
Pce-TUZ

(Screw-Mount Standard Type)
Pce-TME
Pce-TMH

(Snap-in Type)
Pce-EKM
Pce-TLM
Pce-TMA
Pce-TMM
Pce-TMP
Pce-TUF
Pce-TUS
Pce-TUW

(Special Type)
Pce-THE
Pce-TUH

(Standard Type)
Pce-TKM
Pce-TNP
Pce-TUA
Pce-TUC
Pce-TUR

There's also some extra stuff I grabbed from their website. This is what they called and what I named it:

Lead Forming and Cut Foot.jpg
Packaging.jpg
Product Overview - 1.jpg
Product Overview - 2.jpg
Tape Standard.jpg

They had two product overviews, so I just added a - 1 and a - 2.

I hope this helps someone out who's looking for the datasheets for those pesky buggers! These datasheets that I've uploaded seem to be higher quality than the various ones I've found floating around on badcaps. This company, as far as I can tell, only sells capacitors and it only sells these capacitors, so I think this might be the new owners of those pesky Pce capacitors, not that CEC company.

Thanks!

[mockingbird]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Very nice. So TUL are the Low Impedance ones. This will do the trick. Thank you very much.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Best I could find was this. - Series Table 2002-March

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/200.../ecap_e/02.htm

The TUL Series is the only one they even claim Low Impedance for.
The rest are all GP caps.

[mockingbird]

Re: CEC Capacitors

They have a catalogue on their website, but their mains specialty is not capacitors, so they're not listed in this catalogue.

I also sent them an email and asked them for info. Let's see if they get back to me.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: CEC Capacitors

I remember now.
Their website is a waste of time.
-
Why have a website when you don't even LIST any of your products?
- Let alone provide product information...

I sent them an email and told them they are stupid.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: CEC Capacitors

Reliability is comparable to Capxon or Teapo.
Sometimes they last sometimes not.

I have found their site before and may have data sheets.
Will get back on that.
.