MSI Wind Netbook

[i4004]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

umh...8gb of ram....i bet win would be quite nice with so much ram...

my price argument: i can assemble mighty nice pc for about 300$ here(much less in usa, mind you...parts are cheaper there)...just the box, no monitor...don't need it, already have it...: i doubt i can get nice mac for 300$....
i wonder which PARTS for mac i can get for 300$...hehe...

>And trying to get Windows to do stuff with add-ons? No Thank You.

that's harsh...let me, therefore, briefly go thru your list:

>Other reasons include the relative lack of malware,

this is bigger issue on win, no doubts...apple wins by security thru obscurity...nobody really targets mac for malware....

> quick booting,

i can get p3 800 to boot well under minute (probably under 40sec) and core2d in about 20-30sec on xp...

>the highly secure file system,

i don't think filesystems of win are inherently insecure...based on fat32 and ntfs usage patterns i did, and i DO beat them, mind you...thousands of small files etc.

> Time Machine,

this
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/timemachine.html
is good, no doubts...infact it's fuckin excellent....then again, i wonder can you restore the boot drive itself (from this backup) incase it fails...heh
something tells me you can't as you need fully booted leopard to use timemachine...and leopard won't be booted if its hdd is dead...

>the Dock,

task manager of win7 should be pretty decent...but i think macs don't even have taskbar, so...hehe...

>built-in spellcheck,

gotta wonder what spellchecker would help me when i use croatian slang on some forums...huhu...

>the ability to copy the system drive from within the OS,

you can clone the system drive from os and without any extra programs?
that's sweet....

>Finder,

i dunno if that helps you find files faster than win explorer....
i dunno if anything does, once you have enough folders...probably not...

>the disk utility that allows highly secure erases,

oh, i wish i can revert some erases i've done on win...but i can't...hehe

>the ability to uninstall porgrams completely,

we have that too...any if anything's left in registry, there's no harm....

>and.... it just works.

you wouldn't be able to do many things on mac i do on win....relatively small number of mac programs means some things you just cannot do...
offcourse, that's just fine if you don't do those things anyway, but for me it matters...

[KeriJane]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

Hi again, i4004...

Not to be argumentative but "a Nice PC for $300"?
Can you build them in quantity?
Like enough for everyone at your place of business for example?

In a "Nice" case? Maybe you mean a budget sub-$50 case? Sub $30?

With a "Nice CPU"? Aren't Core2Duos/Quads over $100 alone? Even the cheap ones?

With a "Nice" Motherboard? Other than a Fry's combo special ECS board?

With any sort of decent PSU? Video Card? Memory? Hard Drive? Optical Drive?

Your Operating System? Please don't compare a commercial OS like Leopard with an open source one and please don't advise thievery of M$ products...
You couldn't sell either Open Source or "Genuine Stolen Windows" very well... at least not for long!

As a small-time system builder, I'm hard pressed to assemble something decent for that price with the OS... generally it's a Celeron or maybe a E2200 with onboard graphics which is hardly decent. And that depends upon catching Vista on sale cheap, like for under $50.

Amazingly, most people WANT me to steal Windows for them! Office, too.
UH Uh... ain't gonna go there... M$ BITES in more ways than one!
Gotta have that COA, Disk and manual. OR--- sell it sans OS and let their nephew/uncle/brother/in-law steal from M$.

Curious as to where I can find these really nice prices too,
Keri

[NxB]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

If we're criticizing mac OS then there is a fairly long list of peeves.

I hate finder. I don't like how applications are scattered. They don't make menu entries and you have to dig for them under applications. The dock has no task list so its hit or miss what is running. Rocketdock is a replacement on the PC side. Personally, I'd like a dock AND a taskbar.

In terms of cloning a system Mac works like linux except it supports a fairly limited number of configurations. Not a win.
A secure file system? What, is it encrypted or something? I can read mac drives just fine with software the can interpret the file system.

Lack of malware will change if mac gets a larger market share. Enjoy it while it lasts. Its kind of ironic actually. Fact is macs are expensive because they sell the image of exclusivity. They are form over function and are appliances. A $300 white box pc will do the SAME job but it won't be small or pretty. Hell it could even run OSX.

People really amazed over OSx probably had trouble configuring linux or something. Lots of stuff seems counterintuitive and like they were trying to dumb-down dialogs and limit settings. I do like the default desktop backgrounds tho.

With your system in particular, you have a shitload of ram and are copying on fast buses anyway. You would have to run a truly crappy OS to get poor speeds.

[NxB]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

Don't talk shit about Linux or "open source". Your precious OSX runs on a BSD core. Remember that joke called OS 8 and 9? Shitty multitasking, machine locks up over stupid things? The reason open source isn't selling is because of lack of computer skills and people's unwillingness to learn. If you've fixed PCs for people you rapidly gain this valuable lesson.

Duh, you can't commercially pirate software. However before WGA came out many shops WERE installing volume license windows. They got away with it for a LONG time.

Here are your $300 pcs
http://www.pricewatch.com/computer_systems_with_os/

[PCBONEZ]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

i4004's "Nice PC's" are Green.
Earth friendly.
Built from recycled parts.

Kind'a like mine really...
But I'm currently recycling a couple of these and $300 ain't gonna cut it.
http://www.supermicro.com/products/s...8R.cfm?PID=TWR
http://www.supermicro.com/products/s...-7045B-TR+.cfm
They are NOS but they are getting reconfigured.
Mobos and SCSI is going by by.
~~ I got the BLACK ones!

I think i4004's $300 is do-able small scale but cutting it close.
Fry's has a decent uATX case for like $35.
Entry level C2D can [E2180-ish] be had for <$50. [But not in bulk that I know of.]
Intel C2D capable mobos with everything on-board can be had for $35-$50 in bulk.
EA-500D for <$50 if you shop.
RAM isn't so pricey these days.
Modest HDD and DVD-RW maybe $75.
-
If you have an actual resellers license and can buy in bulk tax free then it should come in less. Buying in 5-10 pc lots isn't -really- buying in bulk and I don't know anyone [myself included] that can [or wants to] build the same thing over and over in lots of 50 or 100+ units. [Talk about BORING!!!]

All of that is of course is WITHOUT any software..
If you have to provide Windows legally you can FORGET the $300 mark.
.

[i4004]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

>With your system in particular, you have a shitload of ram and are copying on fast buses anyway. You would have to run a truly crappy OS to get poor speeds.

not about copying speeds, nxb, but multitasking....like does copying big files slow down the os?
with win, linux and osx, is there any difference, if we would use comparable hardware?

kerijane
>In a "Nice" case? Maybe you mean a budget sub-$50 case? Sub $30?
With a "Nice CPU"? Aren't Core2Duos/Quads over $100 alone? Even the cheap ones?
With a "Nice" Motherboard? Other than a Fry's combo special ECS board?
With any sort of decent PSU? Video Card? Memory? Hard Drive? Optical Drive?

have you checked the prices of those things on newegg?
how much do you think mobo that runs c2d costs? the i965 and simillar models?
morre than adequate for business users...hell more than adequate for me too!
or, why not i946 chipset?
old? yes, cheap and good! it will run c2d...
cpu and mobo are most of the expense, sure... video card you don't need if it's integrated...psu is fortron, 30$....ram is cheap these days, optical drives too...hdd coul cost about 40$?
does that sound like much more than 300$?
again, do check newegg prices and don't look for crap mfrs...asus and gb bosrds can be yours for as low as 50-60$....

os? no, just hardware...

but let me just throw in what i think:
i would say win2k is(was) worth its price, xp is worth half or third its price....

i just watched guide on osx on apple website: it's just eye-candy with window buttons on wrong side....and eye-candy means nothing for me...that's why i still use win2k...
translucent wondows are crap...offcourse, osx also lacksk taskbar...can't be without it by now...

the only thing they SHOULD of fix(talking about win here) is font resizing(ie zoom for web browser and simillar ways to increase text size...this IS NEEDED as resolutions go up!), and they didn't...afaik it's broken even in vista...
as for osx, i hear methods like "clear type" are on by default(and always on?), and that's an instant failure in my mind...clear type necessarily looks blurier than text without it...

>generally it's a Celeron or maybe a E2200 with onboard graphics which is hardly decent.

for business work p3-800 is decent...

>Fact is macs are expensive because they sell the image of exclusivity. They are form over function and are appliances. A $300 white box pc will do the SAME job but it won't be small or pretty.

very, VERY well said!
they are essentially the fashion.

apple will probably die as soon as somebody makes a better iphone(android?) and i really don't see why ipod sells as well? probably fashion thing too...
here in europe people have all sorts of different mp3 players...but less have ipods...you can buy few of such players for price of one ipod....and iphone is not happening either...
it never stops to amaze how one company can constantly be on the verge of breakdown and constantly survive probably because they put on such big price tag on something that can be had much cheaper....
today i would say iphone and ipod finance apple, and without that...and without steve jobs...oh yeah, it will be grim... just my prediction...(or just wishfull thinking when i remember some discussions with mac zealots? it was funny when mac switched to intel though... hehe...)

[KeriJane]

Wasn't this thread about a Netbook?

Don't talk shit about Linux or "open source". Your precious OSX runs on a BSD core. Remember that joke called OS 8 and 9? Shitty multitasking, machine locks up over stupid things? The reason open source isn't selling is because of lack of computer skills and people's unwillingness to learn. If you've fixed PCs for people you rapidly gain this valuable lesson.


Here are your $300 pcs
http://www.pricewatch.com/computer_systems_with_os/

POTTY MOUTH!

Anyhow I'm NOT "Badmouthing" Linux or Open Source.
Nothing wrong with it at all.... IF you have the time and skill necessary to master it. The vast majority of people do not and don't care to try. This renders Linux and most other Open Source software commercially unacceptable.

Yes, I'm fully aware that OSX 10.5 runs on an BSD Core. That's one of the great things about it.

My whole point is that a commercially acceptable OS costs Money.
As do all other components of any computer at all... Mac, PC, Mars Rover, Whatever.

There is absolutely NO REASON to go flaming people for pointing that out.

Keri

[NxB]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

Linux is almost commercially acceptable. If you install it on hardware that doesn't require any special configuration it works just like osx. And people learn to use it if they weren't completely computer illiterate.

Regardless, the pricewatch computers come with licenses for around $300 for pretty decent machines. Because of volume sales resellers online will rape mac for value any time. If you build it yourself then you build it how you like it and it still comes out cheaper.

[stretch0069]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

Hmmmm....."commercially acceptable"......sounds like BS to me.

Consumers (in general) want the latest greatest thing and they want it now and they don't want to have to learn anything. Todays consumer is an idiot.

That is why open source OSs aren't common. The beauty is that they are getting close. As soon as someone comes out with a version of Linux that is as stupid as M$ crap, M$ will die a slow agonizing death.

Consumers are stupid. You must make something stupid for consumers to get into it.

Consumers are also lazy. Make an OS that does everything for the consumer and he/she will eat it up.

The old saying "nothing worthwhile comes easy" has been forgotten.

Screw humanity

[PCBONEZ]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

Linux is no longer any harder to learn or use than win9x.

HP and Dell both offer systems with Linux pre-installed.

Not to mention the last time I wandered past the laptops at Walley World most of them were pre-loaded with Lindows. [Yes, with an "L".]

Linux -IS- commercially acceptable now, and it has been for a couple of years.
.

[stretch0069]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

I know a few people that have never heard of Linux. Then there are quit a few that when they hear "Linux", they cry uncontrollably and roll up in the fetal position. They are M$ babies.

I just laugh at them. Pisses them off.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

Shhhh!
Don't tell the wife MythTV is Linux.!!!

[kikkoman]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

--If you install it on hardware that doesn't require any special configuration it works just like osx.

wifi drivers for example?
if packages like (k)ubuntu claim to have everything right "out of the box", then why is it such a pain to get that stupid card running?
windows is so much more transparent, driver-wise. makes it easier for both, "stupid" and professional users.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

wifi drivers for example?
if packages like (k)ubuntu claim to have everything right "out of the box", then why is it such a pain to get that stupid card running?
windows is so much more transparent, driver-wise. makes it easier for both, "stupid" and professional users.

Vista has the same issues with many wifi cards.
It comes up at least daily at Experts Exchange.

[kc8adu]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

i would say linux is set to start taking a chunk out of the desktop market.
as an experiment i burned a bunch of ubuntu cd's and gave them to a bunch of folks in my area that kept getting their windows boxes owned by doing risky things on the web.most of these cases involved teens and porn sites.
all 12 of these folks are still running ubuntu.none have looked back at windows.
a friend at the shop is a complete computer illiterate.can turn on the box and click the mouse.
we put him on a ubuntu machine to show us his new corp. logo's he had made.
he figured out instantly that the "start" was at the top rather than the bottom.
he opened firefox and did his thing.
when we told him he had been running linux for the past hour he gave a shocked look.now to slip a dual boot on his machines to set the hook!

[i4004]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

>all 12 of these folks are still running ubuntu.none have looked back at windows.

with usual habits of most people i think most would be surprised in how many cases linux can replace windows..
i mean, what do people use pcs for?
internet, mail, watch video or youtube, make a doc....
and simillar stuff....
if you have a linux distro that's easy to install and use many people can use it...
BUT there's one HUUUGE problem there: most people wil see windows on their friend's machines and will want windows too....monkey see monkey do factor....
in such situation it's harder for linux to gain any significant marketshare..esp. with windows more and more becoming eye-candy that osx is, etc.

>windows is so much more transparent, driver-wise. makes it easier for both, "stupid" and professional users.

yes

[NxB]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

Windows is simply graphical with drivers. You can see what device has no driver. Linux puts them in modules and the kernel so you have to check your logs or notice a lack of functionality to know something is amiss.

I've put it on people's machines too and they have rarely complained. Usually when they have no windows license and don't want to buy one.

>>Hmmmm....."commercially acceptable"......sounds like BS to me.

Yea, it overlooks the very real enterprise market where *Nix really kicks ass.

>>he figured out instantly that the "start" was at the top rather than the bottom

Thats why I like linux mint. "Start" is at the bottom where it belongs.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

My wifes' sister's family is a house full of PC illiterates [couple + several teenagers & college kids] and they got rid of Windows around 2 years ago now.
NONE of their PC's run an MS OS anymore.
I set up a laptop for them with Ubuntu while I was visiting two months ago.
The ENTIRE install took less time than just running MS updates after a Windows install.
I don't recall ANY significant issues or problems, including getting wifi to work.
.
Young people are not as MS-dependent as folks in their 30's+, and most don't wanna spend money for software. These kids know about things like MythTV and know they don't need MCE and $100 plus just for software to set up a media PC.
That's going to eat away at MS's user base over the next few years big time.
.
For home PC's MS's only real strong holds are older AOL type users and gamers.
The AOL type users won't even know when they've switched and I suspect the population of gamers 'stuck' on MS is a vocal minority.

I don't expect MS to suddenly go *POOF* but their level of domination is clearly already eroding, I DO expect that to continue, and MS can blame no one but themselves.
.
As most companies that get 'too cocky' do, eventuall MS will go the way of IBM.
Still big but no longer a leader.
.

[i4004]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

>Young people are not as MS-dependent as folks in their 30's+, and most don't wanna spend money for software.

>For home PC's MS's only real strong holds are older AOL type users and gamers.

the thing is, many young people ARE gamers.
kids originally buy pcs to game, not to learn....
even those not liking pcs at all like to game.

ms will probably regain with 7 what they lost with vista....if they lost anything much...

[acstech]

Re: MSI Wind Netbook

I thought the majority of gamers went to consoles. Only if you're a computer nut will you play games on computers any more. Sure there's more to it than that, like better detail, etc, but if you know about that then you're a computer nut.

And if you're a computer nut, you're more likely to use linux.

Myself, I dual boot. I keep the Win Vista around just so I can run some games. Period. All my useful work, and the majority of the gaming, goes on in Linux. But some games just won't work right under wine. I might get into windows once every 2 weeks, once a month at most.

If the game manufacturers decided to make Linux versions of the major games, it'd be game over Microsoft, at least for me anyway.