Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

[budwich]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

well you seem to have dug deep. Still some interesting observations since you get a full white screen when the only connection to the "whole panel" has been somewhat compromise with the vertical connection there but the horizontal one removed.

:-(

not sure what else to say. One thing, you indicate that you have two tcons, is that voltage the same in both?

As suggested by budm, maybe the tcon was taken out by the burnt side driver. Some other tests, checking either voltage or resistance depending on power up or not, following vcom towards the panel and or checking for shorts at the same connections.... possibly indicating a smd problem on the bottom edge board, either capacitor ro resistor down there.

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

I do have a second t-con board for this TV, but like I said, I'm not sure of it's true condition. I bought it used, and haven't tested it on a known good TV to see if it actually works. So, I'm not sure if the results would be too helpful. But I will test the same TP's and see what I get. Especially on the previously circled test point. I haven't given up on it yet. I'll do some more checking on things.

[budwich]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

I don't give up easy either... :-) but my time is basically free and I hate throwing things in the garbage that can potentially be fixed for little more than time.

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

I don't give up easy either... :-) but my time is basically free and I hate throwing things in the garbage that can potentially be fixed for little more than time.

Same here, I'm disabled and work on electronics to keep my mind active. I work on my neighbors things to both keep them from being thrown out, but to save my neighbors some money too. If I can.

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

Could this be the reason I'm getting the results I'm getting?

I was thinking about this situation this morning and thought about which side the tabs were on that I removed. It just so happens that the tabs were on the same side as one of the t-con connections for the panel. If one connection to the t-con handles the vertical, and the other handles the horizontal, I may have pulled the first tabs off in the circuit for the horizontal. Thus losing the connection to the other side of the panel where the other tabs are still connected.

I'll be honest, I don't fully understand how a t-con board works completely and this may not have any bearing on the situation. It was just something I thought about and was wondering if it had any merit. If so, then I'd be beating a dead horse to continue to try and fix a problem that is unfixable.

[budwich]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

basically, assuming that this model of samsung follows other set types, there is normally bottom edge boards that the tcon to panel cables connect to. These bottom edge boards have tabs / drivers that are bonded to the panel all along the bottom. Further, there are multiple bottom edge boards depending on the size of the panel. In your case, there is likely two handling each "half".

The corner tabs at the end of each bottom edge board feed sginals / voltages to the sides of the panel for the tabs running along each side. Basically, you can not "play" with the bottom tabs as they are vital and "unity" for the display (ie. are not duplicated). However, the functions of the side tabs is somewhat "duplicated" in most designs such that one side and the other operate in "unison" to "build" the picture along the horizontal "lines" / pixels.... and since along a given horizontal line there is no "half boundary", a side tab / driver has to be able to drive a "full line", hence each side basically does the same function for a given line... its just a matter of timing.

This is my "interpretation" of how / why it works...at a high level. There is likely better explanations around but hope you follow this.

Anyway, back to your "problem". It is possible that the tcon(s) have problems because of the "burnt" side tab... it maybe have caused a lot of "deeper problems".

But back up a bit. First, before you discovered the bad tab, what was the set doing... ie. what was the original problem that started all this? Secondly, as suggested, try measure a few things with one tcon and then do the same measurements with the other especially with the area that you already identified previously appeared to be "wrong".

Lastly, thinking about the current results... first when a tcon to panel cable is disconnected, "normally" that side / half of the display shows a white screen while the other half still connected shows something or black depending on the problems with the set. So from this you see that a "no connection" to the panel results in white while a "some sort of connection" results in black / something / picture.

In your case, you are seeing the white but you are seeing "blue"... that maybe just back lighting maybe. Can you post pictures of the display so we can see what you are seeing?

The other thing that is unusual but maybe not is that when you have the tcon to panel cable connected for the side that has no side tabs is white while the other half that has side tabs but no tcon to panel cable connected has a white screen... if I understand you correctly for that particular test. This goes against what I previously described as "normally" for the "disconnect test". To me, this seems to indicate problems either with the tcon or possibly with the bottom edge board on the connected half.

Sorry for the long post.

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

No problem on the long post, thank you for the explanation. It really helps to understand the process. I'll start by bring you up to speed on what the problem was in the beginning. This will be a little long too.

This thread here was part of the beginnings of the problem.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=74149

The original problem was, there were 31 leds shorted on the two boards. Twenty three on one side and 8 on the other. The TV was working fine with the exception of some weird lights on the sides basically. He didn't even realize the tv was having any trouble. So no telling how long it ran like this.

I couldn't find any replacement boards so I repaired the leds myself. After the repair, the above link occurred and I discovered I had a open led and two that weren't making good contact (like cold solder joint). Fixed that, and then discovered the panel resolution issue.

I did have to go into the panel area to service the leds a couple of times, and I imagine I disturbed the IC on that tab, that otherwise would have naturally been a problem down the road somewhere. I have no idea how long it may have been causing a problem. From the looks of it though, it looks like it's been there for a little while anyway.The tv may be on for about 8 hours a day, I'm guessing on that.

I will take some pictures of the screen as it is now, and disconnect each side on the t-con to the panel and let you see what it's doing. I'll post them as soon as I can, probably later this evening.

[budwich]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

:-( some of the problems when "disturbing panels" is that the edge boards / connections some times find their way toward part of the metal frame structure or possibly are compromised because they are relatively "lightly" bonded to the panel and do allow for much physicalness without possible continuity issues.

Hopefuly, you can get the set back to workable condition.

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

Here are pics:

To explain, the tabs were removed from the right side facing the screen. I named the pictures with an explanation for their name.

I measured voltages on the 2nd t-con board like I did on the one, and they all check out the same as the 1st one that was in the unit while the IC went bad.

Lastly, thinking about the current results... first when a tcon to panel cable is disconnected, "normally" that side / half of the display shows a white screen while the other half still connected shows something or black depending on the problems with the set. So from this you see that a "no connection" to the panel results in white while a "some sort of connection" results in black / something / picture.

In your case, you are seeing the white but you are seeing "blue"... that maybe just back lighting maybe. Can you post pictures of the display so we can see what you are seeing?

The other thing that is unusual but maybe not is that when you have the tcon to panel cable connected for the side that has no side tabs is white while the other half that has side tabs but no tcon to panel cable connected has a white screen... if I understand you correctly for that particular test. This goes against what I previously described as "normally" for the "disconnect test". To me, this seems to indicate problems either with the tcon or possibly with the bottom edge board on the connected half.

Tomorrow I'm going to examine the connections on the bottom of the panel to see if there are any issues there that I can see.

[budwich]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

:-( not sure I still understand whats happening....
but here is my take.

Second picture is somewhat expected as basically there is connection at all to the right side of the screen with both the right side tcon disconnected and the tabs are also removed.

The first picture appears to show an issue with horizontal lines on right side even though there are no tabs attached there... this should normally not happen if the tabs have been cleanly removed unless there is an issue right at the panel, The darkness in the top corner appears to indicate that the driving circuits that remain on the right hand side (probably bottom / corner) still have some impacts / connection to the panel in some form (capacitor / tracking) that holds some voltage for a bit and then eventually disappears... possibly. This might be related to how the bottom corner tab connects and delivers signal / voltage to the side tabs thru the panel tracking. Looking closer at left side, It appears that there is some vertical "bands" on the left... this could be issues with the drive circuits on that side... further of course, there should be a "display" there instead of blank... this means that there is likely no connection / less than good connection on the left side.... although some voltage is present to cause the panel to display white.

The third picture looks some what "correct" in some form. As mentioned, when a tcon to panel cable is disconnected, one may expect that side to go "good white"... meaning clean / uniform. This is your case when compared to the right which has "lining"... it would appear that the backlights have issues though. Since the right side has "white" but with some vertical lining, it is maybe trying to make something happen but most likely the connection between it and tcon is less than good. NOTE: when I indicate "poor connection", it could also mean the "end circuits, either at the tcon or edge board. Since both tests kind of show the same thing, my guess would be at the tcon.... but just a guess.

Ultimately, it is possible that samsungs don't take to the tab removal method as another poster here indicated a similar result (although its not clear what set is being referred to). The "tape cutoff method" or "track cut method" (discussed in some other recent threads) might be the appropriate method. In your case, without "obvious damage" to a tab, I am not sure whether they would have worked because the damage probably needed to be removed as opposed to "worked around".

The horizontal lines that remain even though one set of side tabs has been removed doesn't give one a good feeling... :-( .... BUT they do appear to "correlate" with "three sections" which seem to coincide with "three side tabs". This could be as a result of "poor driving" from the connections from the bottom edge board... which the vertical band on that side kind of shows.... or could be a poor tcon ("broken") that just isn't providing proper signals.

You would probably need a scope to track signals going into the tcon and then thru the tcon to confirm... or a known good / working tcon (which could be taken out again if the "panel" still has issues).

With the amount of "disturbing" that has taken place on the panel, I am not sure it is worthwhile at this point.... but maybe if time is "free". :-)

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

:-( not sure I still understand whats happening....
but here is my take.

Second picture is somewhat expected as basically there is connection at all to the right side of the screen with both the right side tcon disconnected and the tabs are also removed.

The first picture appears to show an issue with horizontal lines on right side even though there are no tabs attached there... this should normally not happen if the tabs have been cleanly removed unless there is an issue right at the panel, The darkness in the top corner appears to indicate that the driving circuits that remain on the right hand side (probably bottom / corner) still have some impacts / connection to the panel in some form (capacitor / tracking) that holds some voltage for a bit and then eventually disappears... possibly. This might be related to how the bottom corner tab connects and delivers signal / voltage to the side tabs thru the panel tracking. Looking closer at left side, It appears that there is some vertical "bands" on the left... this could be issues with the drive circuits on that side... further of course, there should be a "display" there instead of blank... this means that there is likely no connection / less than good connection on the left side.... although some voltage is present to cause the panel to display white.

The third picture looks some what "correct" in some form. As mentioned, when a tcon to panel cable is disconnected, one may expect that side to go "good white"... meaning clean / uniform. This is your case when compared to the right which has "lining"... it would appear that the backlights have issues though. Since the right side has "white" but with some vertical lining, it is maybe trying to make something happen but most likely the connection between it and tcon is less than good. NOTE: when I indicate "poor connection", it could also mean the "end circuits, either at the tcon or edge board. Since both tests kind of show the same thing, my guess would be at the tcon.... but just a guess.

Ultimately, it is possible that samsungs don't take to the tab removal method as another poster here indicated a similar result (although its not clear what set is being referred to). The "tape cutoff method" or "track cut method" (discussed in some other recent threads) might be the appropriate method. In your case, without "obvious damage" to a tab, I am not sure whether they would have worked because the damage probably needed to be removed as opposed to "worked around".

The horizontal lines that remain even though one set of side tabs has been removed doesn't give one a good feeling... :-( .... BUT they do appear to "correlate" with "three sections" which seem to coincide with "three side tabs". This could be as a result of "poor driving" from the connections from the bottom edge board... which the vertical band on that side kind of shows.... or could be a poor tcon ("broken") that just isn't providing proper signals.

You would probably need a scope to track signals going into the tcon and then thru the tcon to confirm... or a known good / working tcon (which could be taken out again if the "panel" still has issues).

With the amount of "disturbing" that has taken place on the panel, I am not sure it is worthwhile at this point.... but maybe if time is "free". :-)

Budwich,

Thank you for all your help and understanding of how all this works together. I inspected the bottom tabs and boards to see if there was any obvious issues. I even used the magnifier on my loupe to see if any of the connections showed any abnormalities. I couldn't find anything wrong, so I put things back together to protect it.

I did find/order a "New (other)" t-con board that was supposed to have been pulled from a new TV with a broken screen. I think it will be my last ditch effort. If that doesn't do something positive, I'll figure it's a lost cause.

I will do some more research in the meantime while I'm waiting for the new t-con board to get here. If I do happen to find a fix, I'll post it in this thread, at least a link to it anyway. Thank you again for all your help and explanations of how things work, it really helped me to understand this part of the tv better.

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

Never give up!!! That is unless you know it's dead no doubt about it.

I decided to look into something this morning on the remaining tabs on the bottom of the screen, but also the side ones that I didn't take off. I powered up the unit with the tabs exposed so I could hand touch each one and see if there was a problem. Lo and behold, I touched a tab on the lower left side (from the back), and the screen came to life! It turns out I probably disturbed the tab working on the leds, and caused the loose connection. I am going to remedy this situation and put it back together and see what it looks like, and see if it's only a temporary fix.

Moral to the story, as Yogi Berra said it, "It ain't over till it's over!" Thanks Budwich for your insights and encouragements to keep looking.

[budwich]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

the tabs are pretty delicate... :-( hopefully you can find some sort of "pressure padding" or otherwise that will improve things.

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

the tabs are pretty delicate... :-( hopefully you can find some sort of "pressure padding" or otherwise that will improve things.

Yes, they are, and I really tried, and try, to handle them very gently. But sometimes they accidentally catch on something, and you don't even realize it.

I took a piece of the heat resistant material under the tuner and sliced off a small piece of it, to make a wedge between the tab and the metal bezel. The bezel applies pressure to keep it in place, when it's fully attached. Hopefully it will last a while (the overall hot patch). This did fix the problem, and the set is back in working condition. I'll post some "after" pictures of the screen later.

I did check the other t-con boards I acquired, and they're all good, so I have some spares. Thanks again Budwich!

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

Here's the results, I chose some cartoons for the graphic colors involved and to gauge picture quality.

[budwich]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

excellent

[DesertRat]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

excellent

It's been on now for about 3 hours. Going to turn it off for the night, and see if I get the same results tomorrow.

[budm]

Re: Samsung UN46ES6003FXZA panel question

Great!