PS58C7000 sound but no picture

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  • DoubleDratt88
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2013
    • 51
    • Australia

    #1

    PS58C7000 sound but no picture

    Greetings all,
    Trying to troubleshoot a Samsung PS58C7000 with working functions and sound but no picture.

    Have tried replacing the y-main board, but no change.

    Vital signs are all good, Vs209, Va55, Ve90, Vsc-200. Vsch I think was about -40.
    Logic heartbeat LED regular on/off 1 sec.

    The panel is firing up and switching on blank - no signs of cracks or physical damage in that state but I don't really know for certain the history. "just stopped working" is all I have to go on.
    Removing either y-buffer 1 at a time results in the top/bottom half the panel switching on but still blank.

    With x-main disconnected no noticeable change.

    A fairly quick probe of y-buffers between va/gnd and the buffer outputs and I didn't get any beeps, but I will be going back and checking them more carefully before going much further.
    According to Mr Google-search, and the 2nd hand price difference of the upper/lower buffers, the lower y-buffer seems to be the common fault in these.

    However if it was just the lower y-buffer with the problem i might would have expected to see the top half of screen working ok once the damaged lower buffer was removed? and that was not the case. or vice-verse. There is definitely another post around here for a faulty y-main with a Pxxxc7000 that only has 1 y-buffer installed and still gets an image on that half of the screen, and i just get blank, illuminated but blank.

    I read a post somewhere that basically said the small ceramic caps on the y-buffers that are "heatsunk" opa-samsung style- using blobs of hot glue, can fail. But again not sure if that would explain my symptoms- or how to test for it other than removing them all and testing them individually.

    Questions:
    1/ Any ideas? - before i distract you any further

    2/ Do the X or lower buffers on these ever have problems?

    3/ Would a logic main be likely to show a healthy heartbeat but still have a problem that stops the lvds signal passing through correctly?

    4/ Any quick and dirty ways of testing the x-main and buffers? or lower buffers?

    Now I'm leaning towards maybe the x-main but since Ve voltage was ok on the x-main i looked elsewhere and never really checked it.
    As x-mains go, what are the common signs of failure on them? Are they basically the same as y-mains with failed mosfets etc?

    The reason I replaced the y-main is probably moot to try and explain now, but one of the mosfets was buzzing loudly and tapping its heatsink very lightly made the noise come and go and change frequency etc, so i was possibly mislead by the noises. I also thought it looked like the signals were making it from the logic to the y-main ok, just using a dmm on the test points near the input ribbon i could see some flickering to suggest a signal present, but couldn't really see any signal when i probed the same lines on the buffer/output side of the y-main which appeared to the dmm to be mostly all between -97v and -100v and static.

    I want to learn how to safely use a scope to verify these types of things on tvs in future, especially since tinkering with plasmas particularly is becoming more of a regular hobby. Tips or links etc specifically on using a scope for tv repair and diagnosis would be greatly appreciated too.

    I might get back and post pics or more details, but for now that's the nut of it. I have the service manual for the 50" but not the 58 and it's too large to attach here sorry.

    Feel free to request pics or any info I've left out in the meantime.

    Thoughts, suggestions and opinions all welcomed.
    DD
    Attached Files
  • tom66
    EVs Rule
    • Apr 2011
    • 32560
    • UK

    #2
    Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

    I suggest trying this test. It sounds like a main board issue.
    https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...61&postcount=2
    Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
    For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

    Comment

    • DoubleDratt88
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2013
      • 51
      • Australia

      #3
      Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

      Sorry I should have mentioned but my post was long enough already, I had already tried the linked test and just to humor myself I just went and tried it again a minute ago to be sure and no change in results, still just a blank screen.

      I have read of a purple band of death on these models, any idea if that can progress to the point the panel goes blank?
      I would have guessed washed out purple instead of blank.. In any case the owner did mention a minor purple band before it stopped working. Voltages do not appear to have been adjusted above panel label to remedy the purple either so I think it seems unlikely but worth a mention.

      Comment

      • DoubleDratt88
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2013
        • 51
        • Australia

        #4
        Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

        On the trail now.. - See pics below.

        The tv is still on the stand, so can't access these boards yet. Next step will be to get it down off the stand and pull the boards and look for reasons why this might has happened.

        Fingers crossed.
        Attached Files

        Comment

        • tom66
          EVs Rule
          • Apr 2011
          • 32560
          • UK

          #5
          Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

          I don't like when address bus fuses blow. That worries me. It can be a bad panel. I hope it is not, sometimes it is not.
          Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
          For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

          Comment

          • DoubleDratt88
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2013
            • 51
            • Australia

            #6
            Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

            Update: It's up and running!

            I removed everything in the way of the 3 lower boards(a real bugger to get at) disconnected them all from each other and poked around searching for shorts, half expecting to find a failed diode or cap- especially between the previously missing 55v Va rail and ground, but couldn't find anything unusual at all.

            So i hooked everything back up and salvaged an identical fuse from another parts tv I was lucky enough to have around, fired it up with fingers crossed figuring there was a very good chance that fuse would blow again instantly, but it didn't!
            I have it on in the background being tested playing an old Short Circuit dvd via bluray and it's been running almost 2 hours now without any fuse related issues at all. Fingers crossed it stays that way.

            It has some minor purple haze going on though which needs to be dealt with next. I'm yet to really confirm with good white backgrounds that show the problem, but looks like it's going to be similar enough to what's shown in this short clip:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpx4UAdm-sw

            Most search results say Vs adjusted up can remedy, some say Va, others say firmware fixed it for them and others say replacing the x and y mains resolved theirs. I don't like changing firmware and on these, upgrading it has apparently often stopped other things from working for many- but I'm still leaning towards firmware and voltage adjustment in that order for this tv.
            Any thoughts on dealing with the purple haze of death as it's been called?

            Comment

            • tom66
              EVs Rule
              • Apr 2011
              • 32560
              • UK

              #7
              Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

              Make sure to replace the fuse with a like-for-like replacement. It's there for a reason.
              Only adjust Vs for purple band. NEVER adjust Va as doing so can damage the plasma panel.
              Firmware update & X/Y swap will not help with purple band specifically.
              Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
              For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

              Comment

              • DoubleDratt88
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2013
                • 51
                • Australia

                #8
                Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

                I made sure the fuse I replaced it with was identical, like i said above. 8A 125v(marked F8R) i believe but don't quote me on that and check your own to be sure to anyone reading this trying to troubleshoot. It's printed on the board right near the fuse.

                A bit annoyed at myself for not noticing it earlier though. Now I have a spare y-main I never needed, but that's never really a bad thing to have for a plasma I suppose.

                Thanks for the tips on adjusting for the purple tom.

                I'll be honest I'm skeptical about the firmware suggestion too and wondered if the tech adjusted the voltages as well while installing firmware for the customer, but I think we both might stand to be corrected on that one as these links I just dug out seem quite sure of the opposite:

                http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post27083458


                I'm going to try the firmware first and see how it goes. Looks like it's just a logic board firmware update, so hopefully won't have the same problems the official firmwares have like stopping the youtube app working etc. In any case a small price to pay if it solves the purple permanently.
                Will post back my findings,
                DD.

                Comment

                • tom66
                  EVs Rule
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 32560
                  • UK

                  #9
                  Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

                  I've said on other forums that updating the firmware may allow the set to work with a lower Vs, or reduce the rate at which Vs ageing affects it. However the fundamental fix to a pinking fault is to adjust the Vs. It is caused by Vs sagging under high-bright loads.
                  Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                  For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                  Comment

                  • DoubleDratt88
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2013
                    • 51
                    • Australia

                    #10
                    Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

                    It is caused by Vs sagging under high-bright loads
                    Is this because the power supply design for Vs is basically inadequate for the panels power demands under high-bright loads?

                    I'm just about to start the firmware update now. more to come soon

                    Comment

                    • tom66
                      EVs Rule
                      • Apr 2011
                      • 32560
                      • UK

                      #11
                      Re: PS58C7000 sound but no picture

                      It seems to be related to panel ageing, the panel requires a higher drive voltage as it ages. Samsung want to save as much energy as possible - lower Vs saves energy.
                      Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                      For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                      Comment

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