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    Samsung LCD heat problem...?

    Hi all electronics Gurus!

    Here's a first-time post from France, (just across the border to Geneva, Switzerland.)

    I have a strange problem with a Samsung LCD that I bought second hand. (Yes, out of warranty.)

    --- ID ---
    Samsung 40" LCD television
    Model no: LE40A536T1FXXC
    Serial no: AT4F3SLQA12103N
    Version: CN01
    Mainboard: BN94-02459A (Well, um, if I found the right sticker?)

    --- Some symptoms ---

    When switching it on cold there's no problems at all with it, all works perfectly fine and the picture is excellent. (Well, at least as good as it gets on an old LCD like this one - but to me it looks great.) So far so good.

    (One problem it does _not_ have is the on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off phenomenon that I have read happens quite often with Samsungs... (Knocking on wood.))

    Ok, moving along with the error description now.

    -After about 10 minutes-
    The darker parts of the image start to get "strange", and strange in this context means; the color fades a bit to slightly green-ish and the other colors start to get gently washed out.

    -After about 20 minutes-
    More of the above.

    -After about 30 minutes-
    Even more of the above, but not so much if the "green" anymore in the dark parts, just worse colors.

    -After about 1 hour-
    By now it starts to get really annoying to watch the image. The dark parts of the image are really distorted and the other parts of the image are seriously washed out.

    ...And here's a strange part that perhaps might be a good lead to what the problem might be; (?)

    All the black parts are (more or less) fine and the on-screen menus are good. It does not matter if I use the HDMI1 or an RCA input, all the image sources are showing the same symptoms.

    --- What I have tried ---

    Opened up the poor thing and had a look if there would be anything "obvious" problem that would catch my eye. Nothing. All caps _look_ ok, meaning none exploded , no bulging at all, no leaks, all FET:s and diodes look good, etc...

    Well, being the curious person that I am, I thought that I would try an old little trick. I let the beast heat up to "maximum bad picture" and then I opened up a can of "Kälte 75" cooling spray. I started quite gently spraying caps, cooling fins, IC:s, individual components and then the PCB:s in general. All with due pause between components and constantly checking if there would be any change in the image.

    ...But there was no change.

    If I switch the beast off for a while to let it cool the picture is -again- perfect for a while but as it heats up it starts getting worse again. (Well, I guess it's heat-related...?)

    --- What I have not tried ---

    Replacing the caps. If you think that this might do the trick I'll of course do this.

    Dropping it off a cliff and calling my insurance company.

    --- And since a picture says more than a thousand words ---

    ...Here are four pictures where I tried to catch the problem, not really easy to get it photographed. And what's even more bizarre is that the TV picture looks better in my camera than what it does on the TV?

    Pics are; Ice age and Clarkson via RCA (from an old Xbox) and a 2x a local (French channel) in HD.

    --- Some info about myself? ---

    I have been repairing just about anything that breaks From GSM phones to computers, laptops, TV:s, washing machines, various kitchen appliances, many Xerox machines, cars (really everything - including complete engine rebuilds), motorcycles, my hydraulic backhoe, tractors and ~20tonne tracked excavator and skylift too. Ok, slightly offtopic in the end of the list. ...Having said all this I'm still a complete n00b (beginner) when it comes to LCD:s...

    I have a thermostatic Weller WECP-20 soldering iron (that I got as a kid), oscilloscope(s), power supplies, multimeter(s), etc. And at work there's even a particle accelerator if I need one. (Yes, I work at CERN.)

    ...So there goes. Any and all tips are very welcome! Thanks a lot in advance!

    Yours respectfully,
    Magnus
    Attached Files
    - Never underestimate a man who overestimates his capabilities. -

    #2
    Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

    I've worked on the LE40A656 twice, which is a very similar set. This particular series 5 and series 6 of Samsung LCDs have lots of panel failures. The screen itself may be having a problem. The fault is usually repairable though.

    Also, from what we have seen on this forum, it is possible (though unlikely) for capacitors to fail without visible bulging. Can you check the power supply outputs on the power supply. When I repaired bad caps on one LE40A656, it had 11.5V on the 13V, causing lots of odd symptoms.
    Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
    For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

      Hi Tom,

      thanks a lot for your reply!

      Ah, of course. I'll see if I find a moment to check the power supply outputs tomorrow. I'll keep you (all) posted.

      Fingers crossed it's not a screen problem. But if you say that even that is fixable I guess there's hope...

      Cheers,
      Magnus
      - Never underestimate a man who overestimates his capabilities. -

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

        Another thing -- have you tried using hot air instead of cold air to heat up parts?
        Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
        For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

          Nope, I did not try to add heat. (Yet.)

          I'm slightly worried that the "cooling spray" didn't have any effect at all on the PCB components. So just in case, if it's screen-related, what could it be? (I did not try to "cool the rear of the screen", only the PCB:s)

          Thanks again!

          Cheers,
          Magnus
          - Never underestimate a man who overestimates his capabilities. -

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

            If it's screen related, it's possibly this problem: (different symptom, same cause)
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=purk...4&feature=plcp
            Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
            For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

              Hi Tom & co,

              I had a look for the voltages and I think that we might be on to something here...

              The voltage(s) measured at startup (=cold TV) on the 24-pin connector "CN801" are as follows;

              13,0V m (Main?) = 12,56V
              5,1V = 5,06V
              13,0V s (Second?) = 13,02V

              This is with the TV still relatively "cold". It's heating up as I write this and I'll post more values in ~30 minutes and 1 hour from now. That will be interesting to see when the colors go bad...

              So... If I guess that it's the 13,0Volts that has gone bad, are we indeed looking at some bad capacitors here then?

              And, is the 5,1V level of 5,06Volts a tad on the low side?

              Thanks for your help!

              Cheers,
              Magnus
              - Never underestimate a man who overestimates his capabilities. -

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                5.06v on a 5.1v line is fine. That's only a variation of less than 1%. Your meter could easily be off by that much. +/- 5% Would usually be within spec for a regulator.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                  Thanks for confirming that randtek. So I guess the 5,1V is out of the list of suspects then. That leaves us with the "almost 13V" line.

                  For measuring I'm using my trusty old Fluke 75. It's been around but I think it's still fairly accurate.

                  ...So, after ~45 minutes, there's still the same voltages. (Picture quality has gone down a bit.) I think I just might use my heatgun _very gently_ on the power board to see what happens to the picture and the voltages. I'll keep you posted.

                  Thanks,
                  Magnus
                  - Never underestimate a man who overestimates his capabilities. -

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                    I heated the power board a little bit (really gently with the heat gun) and the voltages went to;

                    13,0V m (Main?) = 12,55V
                    5,1V = 5,06V
                    13,0V s (Second?) = 12,99V

                    ...So basically no big difference in voltages.

                    And this _might_ just be my imagination but I think that I heard a brief little high-pitched "squeip"-sound a few seconds after switching off the heat gun. (Capacitor leak?) And now the picture quality is bad...

                    Good ideas?

                    Thanks,
                    Magnus
                    - Never underestimate a man who overestimates his capabilities. -

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                      Those voltages are fine. I only had a problem on the LE40A656 when the 13V hit 11.5V. It would crash or reboot randomly after the caps cooled down.
                      Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                      For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                        Ok, thanks for confirming that Tom.

                        I just had a look at the top of the display, under the metal cover that protects the flat film cables. I'm feeling a bit unsure about poking the flat film cable connectors too much, there's 12 of them going down to the screen and they do look very fragile. Well ok, I did gently nudge them a little bit but there's no effect. I also tried to apply a bit more pressure on the two (white) flat cables coming from the LVDS (?) cable split connection.

                        I'll reattach the metal cover over the flat film cables going into the LCD now.

                        Any good ideas on where to look now?

                        Thanks,
                        Magnus
                        - Never underestimate a man who overestimates his capabilities. -

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                          Gurus,

                          I have found the place where the problem comes from.

                          Have a look at the two pictures attached, one is a general view of the rear of the TV, without the metal cover over the "display card" (?). The other picture shows the "display card". On this "display card" I found that the CPU (?) was getting quite hot. (The big IC with the heat transfer "rubber" attached.) If I heated this one gently with my heat gun the image quickly got really really bad. And then, when using the cooling spray on the same IC, *tadaa* the image got back to normal...!

                          I really can't tell why this IC (cpu?) was getting too hot... The primitive metal heatsink was having a solid contact when I had to pry it loose.

                          Anyway, what I'm going to try next is to simply re-use a CPU heatsink with an electric fan. I don't think I'll hear the fan from over the room. Perhaps another card would do the trick but if I can make it work with a simple PC CPU fan I'm quite pleased.

                          I'll keep you posted if it works or not.

                          Cheers,
                          Magnus
                          Attached Files
                          - Never underestimate a man who overestimates his capabilities. -

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                            We have seen this before, I think the CPU itself fails in some manner. If the CPU fan has no affect then replace the T-con. It's about £40 on eBay.

                            http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proscan-LC...item51a3645dd9

                            Ask these guys if they have any in stock:
                            http://flattvparts.co.uk/index.php?m...ord=V400H1-C03

                            And a chi-mei panel in a Samsung, I am disappointed, I would expect a Samsung panel, though it seems to be the norm nowadays.
                            Last edited by tom66; 11-22-2012, 04:32 PM.
                            Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                            For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                              Those images almost look like the 'negative' images we've seen before on here but no fix posted. Good to know that's probably the T-con board.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                                Dear all,

                                After fixing it my TV has now been working without any problem for weeks!

                                Thanks a lot to all for your help! In the end the problem did indeed turn out to be the T-con board. I'm guessing that probably there's (at least) one bad solder connection between the CPU and the board. (?) ...But since I found a cheap-ish replacement board from eBay, -thanks for the link-, I just went ahead and bought one from there to try.

                                Well, board installed, and all is back to normal, the picture stays perfect, even if it's running for a whole day!

                                Thanks again, hope this information can help others with the same problem!

                                Cheers,
                                Magnus
                                - Never underestimate a man who overestimates his capabilities. -

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                                  If that small square ic is an AS15F that is your problem seen it bad on several Tcons.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                                    Have just now repaired a Samsung LA32R81 which had distorted colours.
                                    I replaced the AS15-G IC on the T-Con PCB.
                                    Attached Files

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                                      Is this the IC?
                                      https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...61ea6520a5.pdf
                                      Never stop learning
                                      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                      Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                      TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Samsung LCD heat problem...?

                                        Originally posted by budm View Post
                                        Looks the same but mine was AS15-G. I bought a few from an eBay seller.

                                        Comment

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