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**mob** · 11-27-2011, 10:00 AM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Originally posted by arazano View Post

Specs of the cap: 68uF/450V AXW Rubycon.

Don't touch those. You have to replace these ones (2200uF 10V CrapXons)

edit: actually - change all of them (2200uF, 1500uF and 470uF ? .. picture isn't clear enough). They will all eventually fail.

Attached Files

**PCBONEZ** · 11-27-2011, 10:27 AM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Those two caps are on the AC side and:
- They won't affect start-up time.
- Those rarely fail - even if they are crap brands.
- You have Rubycon - which are one of the best brands.
.
.
mob pointed you to 'one of' the places where there are caps that could affect start time.
Those are the DC filter caps and if bad they will charge slow so the affected DC voltage can be slow to get to the operating voltage.
Any of them, not just the 2200uF.
There are other things that could do it but that group of caps is probably the most common.
.

**arazano** · 11-27-2011, 11:15 AM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Thanks Mob, thanks PcBones for the clear information.

I was informed by someone that the 2 caps i mentioned were the reason of start up fail.
Anyways, i hope the affected caps you mentionend are still in stock somewere.

thanks again

**PCBONEZ** · 11-27-2011, 11:21 AM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Sometimes there's a tough one but generally they are easy to find.
Use better quality [Japanese] caps with the same or lower ESR.
.
If you give the make and series of the originals someone can probably point you to their data sheet.
.
Also add your location [at least country] to your profile so people aren't sending you 1/2 way around the planet for easy to find caps.
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**mob** · 11-27-2011, 12:27 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Originally posted by arazano View Post

Thanks Mob, thanks PcBones for the clear information.
Anyways, i hope the affected caps you mentionend are still in stock somewere.

No, don't use another set of CapXons or whatever crappy makes and series you have in your power board (I remember fixing one 32" LG with that same board that's why I suggested that yours is equipped with bad 2200uF CapXons).
Please provide a better picture of your caps.

**arazano** · 11-27-2011, 12:38 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Ok, i will provide a better picture tomorrow.
Thanks mob!

**retiredcaps** · 11-27-2011, 02:25 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Originally posted by mob View Post

edit: actually - change all of them (2200uF, 1500uF and 470uF ? .. picture isn't clear enough). They will all eventually fail.

I agree that the picture isn't clear enough. However, it looks like the majority of Capxons are all bloated. If yes, that would explain your long startup time.

**arazano** · 11-28-2011, 12:19 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Ok, I have made better prictures.
Caps are made by "Samwha".

@Mob, the specs of caps you mentioned to be replaced are:
(beginning from top of the picture)
2200 uF/10V
2200 uF/10V
2200 uF/25V
2200 uF/10V
2200 uF/10V

Attached Files

**PCBONEZ** · 11-28-2011, 12:55 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

That info isn't enough. Also need diameter and series to look anything up.

I can see the "WB" series mark on some of them but if other series are present you will need those data sheets too.
.
http://www.samwha.com/electric/product/product23.html
.

.
At the 20C/100kHz used in data sheets basically ESR = Impedance.
[The other components of Impedance cancel each other out at about 100kHz making ESR the only thing affecting Impedance at that point.]
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**mariushm** · 11-28-2011, 01:01 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

You have at least one there in the picture that's 1500uF, 35v. It seems you listed only a part, there's a few that are smaller, probably 820uF or something like that. Please write here all of them.

... for what you already wrote...

Ok, so they're all 2200 uF , 10v and 25v.

The voltage specification is the maximum voltage the capacitor is rated for. You can install capacitors rated for higher voltage without any issues.
For example, you can replace the 10v ones with capacitors rated for 16v if they're easier to find.

Here's some good capacitors - all i paste are better than what you have, the best at the top ... but sometimes the best won't work for you because the diameter is too large... check the diameter of the capacitors you have now and compare it with the capacitors in the links and select accordingly

For 2200uF 25v:

2200uF,35v,25mm height, 16mm wide, 10000h @105c : http://nl.farnell.com/rubycon/35zlh2...35v/dp/8126704
2200uF,25v,25mm height, 16mm wide, 5000h @125c : http://nl.farnell.com/panasonic/eeut...0uf/dp/1890548

For 2200uF 10v :

12.5mm wide, 25mm tall: http://nl.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...16v/dp/1219464

12.5mm wide: http://nl.farnell.com/rubycon/16zlh2...16v/dp/8126313
12.5mm wide: http://nl.farnell.com/rubycon/10zl22...10v/dp/1144685

Farnell is in UK, should be cheap to get them.

**arazano** · 11-28-2011, 02:13 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

ok, here is the complete list: (from top)
ill provide later the complete specs.
470 uF/25V
2200 uF/ 10V
2200 uF/25V
1500 uF/ 35V
470 uF/35V
2200 uF/ 10V
2200 uF/ 10V
2200 uF/10V
470 uF/ 10V

**PCBONEZ** · 11-28-2011, 02:36 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

BTW: Before you start yanking caps - make a cap-map.
Make sure to show polarity on the map [in addition to uF and volts].
Sometimes the markings on PCBs have errors and the polarity marked on the board can be backwards from how the actual cap gets installed.
It's also a big help when you get interrupted with a bunch of caps already out. [All the holes look the same when you come back.]
.
Personally I take a snap-shot, print it big, and write my notes and polarity marks right on that.
A hand sketch is good enough though.
.

**mariushm** · 11-28-2011, 02:46 PM

**arazano** · 11-28-2011, 03:00 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Thanks Pcbonez for the good tips, i did not thought about that issue.
Thanks Mariushm for the help and search work.

you guys are really great.

**arazano** · 11-30-2011, 11:15 AM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Ok, i have more details now:

C1= 10,25mm W, 13,7 mm H, 470uF/25V RD
C2= 12,7 mm W, 22,2 mm H, 2200uF/10V WB (bloated)
C3= 12,7 mm W, 22,2 mm H, 2200uF/10V WB (bloated)
C4= 12,6 mm W, 25,3 mm H, 2200uF/25V RD
C5= 16,4 mm W, 26,4 mm H, 1500uF/35V WB
C6= 10,1 mm W, 17,1 mm H, 470uF/35V RD
C7= 12,7 mm W, 22,2 mm H, 2200uF/10V WB (bloated)
C8= 12,7 mm W, 22,2 mm H, 2200uF/10V WB (bloated)
C9= 10,0 mm W, 21,6 mm H, 2200uF/10V RD
C10= 6,4 mm W, 13,6 mm H, 470 uF/10V RD

**PCBONEZ** · 11-30-2011, 05:35 PM

Re: LG 32LC51 power supply caps

Your format kind of threw me for a minute.
Except for 6.3mm it is standard to round dimensions to the nearest 1/2mm - but you wouldn't know that yet.
Figured it out, corrected to the data sheet dimension, and added Ripple [mA] and ESR [ohms] as applicable.
Also rearranged to make it an easier read.

Some of this may have been covered already.

The WB are low ESR.
They are roughly the same grade as Panasonic FM and FR but differing can sizes can make better or lesser ESR grades good choices as replacements.
-
[Want Ripple the same or more. (Ripple is basically a current -limit- for the AC component.)
[Want ESR the same or less. (ESR can be thought of as the resistance to Ripple.)
[Want the same uF. (If you MUST fudge then go up by one standard value. That's ~20%.)
[Want volts the same or more. (Lacking actually measuring the voltage present.)
[Never get 85C temp rated caps. They don't last as long.
[And of course they have to fit in the the space and not be too tall.
-
The old and new cans don't have to be the same size as long as they fit and the specs are good.
But: when you change can size consider that the lead spacing might be different. [Mounting consideration.]
10mm and 12.5mm are usually both 5mm LS but not always. Other diameters are usually different.

[C2, C3, C7, C8] WB 2200uF/10v 12.5x20mm - 2360 mA - 0.025 ohm
Some Options:
Panasonic FM 2200uF/10v 12.5x20mm - 2600 mA - 0.018 ohm
Panasonic FR 2200uF/10v 10x25mm - 2470 mA - 0.018 ohm
Nichicon HM 2200uF/10v 12.5x25mm - 2800 mA - 0.012 ohm

[C5] WB 1500uF/35v 16x25mm - 3460 mA - 0.015 ohm
Some Options:
Panasonic FM 1500uF/35v 12.5x35mm - 3750 mA - 0.012 ohm
Panasonic FR 1500uF/35v 12.5x30mm - 3630 mA - 0.013 ohm

~~ On to RD ~~

The RD are not low ESR so you skip ESR when choosing replacements. [It's not in their data sheet.]
These are aka: 'GP caps', meaning General Purpose.
You still want the same Ripple or more.
That said, most techs I know choose 'entry level' low ESR caps anyway because the QA is tighter.
'Entry level low ESR' means low ESR but on the low end of the low ESR totem pole. [IAW: ESR Grade.]
[It's my term that some have adopted but it's not an official term.]
Those are series like Panasonic FC, Nichicon PW, Chemicon LXZ.
There are probably dozens of 'entry level' series of Jap caps that will work for these.
As long as the Ripple is enough you're good.
-
The gotcha is that RD [like most GP caps] have Ripple rated at 120Hz and low ESR caps use 100kHz.
There is a conversion in the RD data sheet. [In the Frequency Coefficient of Ripple table.]
I included the Ripple correction to 100kHz in the brackets at the end to help things along.

[C1] RD 470uF/25V 10x12.5mm - 449 mA [674 mA @100kHz]

[C4] RD 2200uF/25V 12.5x25mm - 1235 mA [1420 mA @100kHz]

[C6] RD 470uF/35V 10x16mm - 521 mA [782 mA @100kHz]

[C9] RD 2200uF/10V 10x20mm - 844 mA [971 mA @100kHz]

[C10] RD 470 uF/10V 6.3x11mm - 272 mA [408 mA @100kHz]

I'll let you look for the GP replacements.
Partly because I don't have the slightest idea about what is available in Holland.
Doesn't do any good to recommend parts you can't get anyway.
Let us know what you find.
.

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LG 32LC51 power supply caps

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