Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • tiresias
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Feb 2006
    • 489

    #1

    Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

    Today's "patient" is a 2-year old Fortron ATX 300-GTF, a very cheap, but usually decent PSU rated for 300W with passive PFC. Background information:


    For the first 2 months of its life, it was used to provide power for one of the kids' "gaming" PCs, before it was replaced with an Enermax device. At this point, the Fortron was 'modded' in such a way that its fan would run directly from the +12v rail, PSON was shorted to ground, and the PSU was used to provide the EMF for an electrolysis demonstration, which ran occasionally, for a few days at a time.

    Two 'dummy' loads were always used as follows to reduce crossloading issues:

    3.3v = 1R resistive 'dummy load', 11 watts.
    12v = Cooling fan, and 10R load, total about 20 watts.

    Main load was on +5v line, usually about 27A, hence about 135 watts.



    Yesterday I decide to set up the 'kit' differently, but don't bother measuring the 5v load, only the voltage, which was (on hindsight, abnormally low), 4.70V. The setup runs for about an hour, after which the PSU shuts itself down, and never starts up again.

    While the fan was running until the moment the unit shut down, the PSU was much hotter than usual, so with another PSU and the Fluke, I measured the current (simulating voltage of 4.70V) on the +5v: it was 37.1A. The Fortron's rated maximum was 30A.


    Observations:

    1. 5Vsb still works fine

    2. When PS_ON is grounded, 12.1 volts appear for a moment on the +12V line, before plummeting to zero as the unit shuts down - with 5Vsb still working. However, no voltage ever appears on 3.3v or 5v.

    3. Measuring with a ohmmeter at the ATX connector, to ground:
    3.3v:8R, unchanging
    5v:15R, unchanging
    12v:150R, increasing to over 2K.

    Any suggestions as to where the problem may lie? Otherwise I'll continue this thread with a component-by-component autopsy, complete with gory pictures

    Note: While a non-IT-related load was used in this case, many people still use older motherboards and GPUs that draw almost entirely from the +5V line. Often they will heavily overclock, possibly leading to a similar scenario.
  • kc8adu
    Super Moderator
    • Nov 2003
    • 8832
    • U.S.A!

    #2
    Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

    shorted rectfier on +5

    Comment

    • tiresias
      Badcaps Veteran
      • Feb 2006
      • 489

      #3
      Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

      Originally posted by kc8adu
      shorted rectfier on +5
      Many thanks for your prompt advice! I shall now proceed to desolder the heatsink bearing the output rectifiers from the PCB and post my findings...

      Comment

      • larrymoencurly
        Badcaps Veteran
        • Oct 2004
        • 960
        • USA

        #4
        Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

        Does it have an empty spot on the PCB for a second output rectifier in parallel? I've seen many PSUs built that way and have added the missing diode if I had one (they're supposed to match exactly).

        Comment

        • tiresias
          Badcaps Veteran
          • Feb 2006
          • 489

          #5
          Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

          I've photographed the output rectifiers in question for identification purposes:


          However, on measuring with a diode meter, all appear good, (both 'side' pins conduct to the central pin, and not viceversa; side pins do not conduct to each other, and no pins short to the heatsink itself)

          Assuming these three be good, where would you recommend I look next?

          Comment

          • Rainbow
            Badcaps Legend
            • Aug 2005
            • 1372

            #6
            Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

            Check main switching transistors too.

            Comment

            • tiresias
              Badcaps Veteran
              • Feb 2006
              • 489

              #7
              Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

              Originally posted by Rainbow
              Check main switching transistors too.
              I have the inverter's two switching, heatsink-mounted MOSFETs in front of me now, desoldered and ready to be 'tested'. The two components are identical - I'm unable to identify the logo, so I've taken a picture of one:



              Measuring them with an ohmmeter: all pin combinations measure OPEN, as in, unlimited resistance. Is this to be expected?

              Comment

              • kc8adu
                Super Moderator
                • Nov 2003
                • 8832
                • U.S.A!

                #8
                Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                if the choppers were bad it would likely blow fuses.it wouldnt come up at all either.
                the +5 rect is the larger of the 3.
                looks like a 40a shindengen part.

                Comment

                • tiresias
                  Badcaps Veteran
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 489

                  #9
                  Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                  Originally posted by kc8adu
                  if the choppers were bad it would likely blow fuses.it wouldnt come up at all either.
                  the +5 rect is the larger of the 3.
                  looks like a 40a shindengen part.
                  Hi KC8,

                  When measuring this component (or any of the other two output rectifiers for that matter) with my DMM's "resistance" measurement, all three appear to be good - ie. both side pins conduct towards the central pin, but not viceversa, or to each other. None are shorted to the heatsink.

                  Does that exclude the +5 "double-diode" package as the cause of the failure, or is there a more realistic way to test it that you would recommend?

                  Comment

                  • Rainbow
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 1372

                    #10
                    Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                    Use diode test to test the MOSFETs but they're probably fine as they're not shorted.
                    I've repaired one AT PSU where one of the transistors was bad (they were NPN 13007, not MOSFETs) - the the fuse was OK but it did not do anything when powered up.

                    Comment

                    • larrymoencurly
                      Badcaps Veteran
                      • Oct 2004
                      • 960
                      • USA

                      #11
                      Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                      Who makes the 3dd209-1? I got no hits when I looked up the part number, and I can't figure out the logo. Isn't it an NPN rather than a MOSFET? The 300-350W Fortrons I have use NPNs.

                      Comment

                      • tiresias
                        Badcaps Veteran
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 489

                        #12
                        Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                        Originally posted by larrymoencurly
                        Who makes the 3dd209-1? I got no hits when I looked up the part number, and I can't figure out the logo. Isn't it an NPN rather than a MOSFET? The 300-350W Fortrons I have use NPNs.
                        Hi Larry,

                        Many thanks for your help, by the way

                        I've been trying to find out who uses that logo (and, for that matter, for a spec sheet for 3dd209-1), but also to no avail. It's an intriguing logo, one I remember having seen before, but what does it represent? SIF? JIF? III?

                        In any case, the inverter's transistor bank is working, and the output rectifiers all appear to be good. Who would you advise should be my next suspect-for-interrogation? The main transformer? The larger (with multiple windings, in any case) toroidal coil just before the output capacitors?

                        PS. Resistance measurements at the ATX connector remain unchanged, even with the output rectifiers removed - is this meaningful?
                        Last edited by tiresias; 04-02-2006, 08:25 AM.

                        Comment

                        • Rainbow
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Aug 2005
                          • 1372

                          #13
                          Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                          Using diode test, you can determine if it's MOSFET or NPN. It might be MJE13009 clone.

                          Comment

                          • tiresias
                            Badcaps Veteran
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 489

                            #14
                            Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                            Originally posted by Rainbow
                            Using diode test, you can determine if it's MOSFET or NPN. It might be MJE13009 clone.
                            Numbering the pins 1 to 3, from left to right, using the diode test, one obtains two "positives":

                            1 conducts to 2, not viceversa
                            1 conducts to 3, not viceversa

                            Comment

                            • Rainbow
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 1372

                              #15
                              Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                              So it's NPN - the base (pin 1) is P. If you get the same reading (+/-) on both transistors, they're probably good.

                              Comment

                              • tiresias
                                Badcaps Veteran
                                • Feb 2006
                                • 489

                                #16
                                Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                                Originally posted by Rainbow
                                So it's NPN - the base (pin 1) is P. If you get the same reading (+/-) on both transistors, they're probably good.
                                That makes sense - I had assumed they had used MOSFETs for the inverter's switching transistors, but thanks for the correction.

                                They both give exactly the same reading, yes.

                                Comment

                                • tiresias
                                  Badcaps Veteran
                                  • Feb 2006
                                  • 489

                                  #17
                                  Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                                  Ladies and Gentlemen -

                                  After several (documented above) unsuccessful attempts to locate the damaged component, I replaced the main transformer with one I had sitting in the "junk bin" for a year or so, which had originally been stripped from a Fortron PSU of the same model that had died (albeit in a different, less pathetic, but more 'final' manner).

                                  As you may have guessed, the device is, for now, working.

                                  I shall be putting it through some moderate testing in the days to come, and I'll let you know if, at any point, it should 'blow up'.

                                  PS. Moral of the story:

                                  1) Keep the larger components from 'dead' PSUs - they may come in useful
                                  2) Consider replacing the main transformer, if a PSU appears to have failed due to excessive load on one of its rails, and all of its rectifiers appear good.
                                  Last edited by tiresias; 04-04-2006, 09:45 AM.

                                  Comment

                                  • Rainbow
                                    Badcaps Legend
                                    • Aug 2005
                                    • 1372

                                    #18
                                    Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                                    Nice find.
                                    I keep everything from dead PSUs - having commonly used components handy is good when repairing PSUs.

                                    Comment

                                    • tiresias
                                      Badcaps Veteran
                                      • Feb 2006
                                      • 489

                                      #19
                                      Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                                      Originally posted by Rainbow
                                      Nice find.
                                      I keep everything from dead PSUs - having commonly used components handy is good when repairing PSUs.
                                      I desolder and keep everything too - except in the case of Compaq PSU's though, since those are often cursed.

                                      Comment

                                      • Rainbow
                                        Badcaps Legend
                                        • Aug 2005
                                        • 1372

                                        #20
                                        Re: Fortron ATX 300GTF fails due to sustained excessive +5v load

                                        I usually keep them complete (motherboards too) and desolder parts only when needed.

                                        Comment

                                        Related Topics

                                        Collapse

                                        • AJ847.63e
                                          Testing ATX PSUs under load - Does loading the ATX 24 pin also load EPS & PCIE?
                                          by AJ847.63e
                                          Hi Folks,

                                          Just wanted to clear up a misunderstanding of mine (or what I expect is one). Isn't the 12V rail from the 24 pin, EPS and PCIE separated? IE if I put a power resistor on the ATX 12V pin that is not going to load, thus tell me if the EPS or PCIE rails are fine?

                                          I was recently watching ArIs from Hardware Busters video on how to properly test ATX PSUs without using 5 figure Croma substations.

                                          The PCB adapter he used breaks out the 12, 5 and 3.3V pins from the 24 pin and gives you banana plugs to connect to. That is a bit useless is it not? Aren't...
                                          05-06-2025, 10:37 PM
                                        • Document Archive
                                          HP Elite Slice G2 + Image Load & Asset Tag Elite Slice i5-7500T Specification for Upgrade or Repair
                                          by Document Archive
                                          This specification for the HP Elite Slice G2 + Image Load & Asset Tag can be useful for upgrading or repairing a desktop PC that is not working. As a community we are working through our specifications to add valuable data like the Elite Slice G2 + Image Load & Asset Tag boardview and Elite Slice G2 + Image Load & Asset Tag schematic. Our users have donated over 1 million documents which are being added to the site. This page will be updated soon with additional information. Alternatively you can request additional help from our users directly on the relevant badcaps forum. Please...
                                          09-12-2024, 02:20 PM
                                        • Document Archive
                                          HP ProBook 450 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag Notebook 400 Specification for Upgrade or Repair
                                          by Document Archive
                                          This specification for the HP ProBook 450 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag Notebook can be useful for upgrading or repairing a laptop that is not working. As a community we are working through our specifications to add valuable data like the 450 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag boardview and 450 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag schematic. Our users have donated over 1 million documents which are being added to the site. This page will be updated soon with additional information. Alternatively you can request additional help from our users directly on the relevant badcaps forum. Please note that we...
                                          09-06-2024, 10:56 AM
                                        • Document Archive
                                          HP ProBook 450 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag Notebook 400 Specification for Upgrade or Repair
                                          by Document Archive
                                          This specification for the HP ProBook 450 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag Notebook can be useful for upgrading or repairing a laptop that is not working. As a community we are working through our specifications to add valuable data like the 450 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag boardview and 450 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag schematic. Our users have donated over 1 million documents which are being added to the site. This page will be updated soon with additional information. Alternatively you can request additional help from our users directly on the relevant badcaps forum. Please note that we...
                                          09-06-2024, 10:56 AM
                                        • Document Archive
                                          HP ProBook 430 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag Notebook 400 Specification for Upgrade or Repair
                                          by Document Archive
                                          This specification for the HP ProBook 430 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag Notebook can be useful for upgrading or repairing a laptop that is not working. As a community we are working through our specifications to add valuable data like the 430 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag boardview and 430 G6 + Image Load & Asset Tag schematic. Our users have donated over 1 million documents which are being added to the site. This page will be updated soon with additional information. Alternatively you can request additional help from our users directly on the relevant badcaps forum. Please note that we...
                                          09-06-2024, 10:56 AM
                                        • Loading...
                                        • No more items.
                                        Working...