What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

[targeting]

-Can someone tell me what is the power cap or caps for the audio card?
Maybe only the C131? or any one more?

And maybe the line level audio caps for the rear channel on this?

I am runing kx drivers on win7 64 with the rear channel because it got a better opamp quality on the rear!

I want to put a bigger audio cap on the power and on the line level... but don't know which ones are those!
Help!

thanks

[mariushm]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

Here's the PCI slot pinout :

The board is probably (most likely) powered from 5v .. follow the 5v traces in the connector, see where they join up and what capacitors are connected to that 5v and ground traces.

[Khron]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

I'm reasonably sure that the PCI 5v goes into the "29M33" DPAK-package regulator (middle-bottom of the picture) that provides 3.3v to the EMU10K1 and the rest of the digital circuitry, and 12v go into the "78M05" DPAK, to make 5v for the analog stages.

So, C40 and C42, (before and after the 78M05), and perhaps even C44, would be responsible for the analog supply filtering, and C78 and 79, for the "main" digital supply.

I'll have to get back to you on which are the "rear out" output caps, though

[targeting]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!



So i remove those caps labeled RED, that's the power suplly for this board?

I am thinking on putting AUDIO grade caps in there, like ELNA SILMIC 2 , or any other brand but speficifc for audio. What can i expect from that?

And for the rear channel caps... is there someone who know what they are?

thanks.
My language is not native language and i am not techinal guru, but i can solder badly!! lol Enough!

[tom66]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

Since the output is through a low quality sigmatel DAC and cheap opamps, I'd expect approximately zero difference.

[targeting]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

so you are telling me that this board does not use the opamps like the new boards?

where we change opamps for better or prefered choices of sound.

That this use uses other stuff for outputing sound....

I see an 2308-s which i believe is for micro and i see a 33078 which is an opamp... but for what? The green ones.... Can change the 33078 for a 4562 or this board does not uses opamp like the new ones....???
(dont know, so my ask.... go easy... newbie here)

[Khron]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

The PT2308 is actually the headphone amp / opamp for the "front out" (green jack).

The front out comes from the Sigmatel DAC.

The rear out (black jack) comes from the Philips UDA1334 DAC. Its outputs are on pins 14 and 16 (so in the last picture, they would be on the lower left of the chip U4).

C55 might be one of the "rear out" coupling caps, in fact. See if you can trace where the signals from pins 14 and 16 of the UDA1334 (U4) - they might go through some vias under the chip.

I've got a CT4830 here, but it's a bit different - it has a third opamp (ST MC4558C) that buffers the rear outs. The MC33078 on the top is most likely the mic / line preamp.

[tom66]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

What I'm saying is that the power supply capacitors are unlikely to make much of a difference.

The 78M05 for the +5V supply is a general purpose type, with poor ripple rejection above a few kHz. This means the "fuzz" produced by the power supply isn't filtered out.

You can mod in an inductor in series plus a 100n across the input cap. This will chop out a good deal of the ripple from the SMPS. Then adding low ESR capacitors -may- help, although, I wouldn't expect much.

But the DAC is just a standard, reasonably low cost device, so you can't expect much improvement.

[targeting]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

Can you provide a pic of a good audio inductor.
And you talk about a 100n across the input cap... can explain?

what is a 100n? And who is the input cap? c55?

Thanks!

And if i change the 78m05 for a better audion one? Need to something else? or just swap?

What I'm saying is that the power supply capacitors are unlikely to make much of a difference.

The 78M05 for the +5V supply is a general purpose type, with poor ripple rejection above a few kHz. This means the "fuzz" produced by the power supply isn't filtered out.

You can mod in an inductor in series plus a 100n across the input cap. This will chop out a good deal of the ripple from the SMPS. Then adding low ESR capacitors -may- help, although, I wouldn't expect much.

But the DAC is just a standard, reasonably low cost device, so you can't expect much improvement.

[tom66]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

100n is an 0603 ceramic capacitor, little SMD device, X5R/X7R type. Frequency response is useful into the tens of MHz so it's a great high frequency attenuator.

I don't know what the input cap is, but you can trace it by following the lines from the PCI connector.

I use TPS7A4901/TPS7A3001 on a high performance audio design, they are super low noise and block out switcher (SMPS) noise very well. The noise I got was under 1mVp-p even under heavy audio transients (20mA - 100mA in 1ms). But they do not readily substitute 78M05, they are completely different parts.

I don't know why you're expecting good audio quality from this sound card with the low cost DAC + output amplifiers (built in to the DAC). It doesn't matter how good the power supply to the card is, the card wasn't ever designed with superb audio quality in mind. Still, if you just allow yourself to listen, and focus on music not sound, you really won't notice much difference...

[targeting]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

Because that's the board i got right now... and want to see if audio caps are worth it... and to see the diferences... and i was thinking of a better opamp... but i see that's not possible on this card...



thanks

[targeting]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

Ok, 2 questions now!
-And the caps for the line level of rear channels, anyone knows who they are?
I mean which caps, because i asked the power ones and someone identify them (thanks)

-and for this:

-What are the beneficts in audio using film caps instead of electrolitcs? For that they removed the front ones, right? or they are in paralell?

Sorry if my ask is noob but i am learning!

[mariushm]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

Are you serious?!!!

The leads of those capacitors catch so more EMI noise and interferences from inside the computer that they completely nullify any benefit they would bring compared to electrolytic capacitors.

Loooks like an audiophool had nothing better to do.

Ridiculous.

Dude, you have a crappy sound card with crappy DACs/opamps... you're just polishing a turd. Yeah, it was a decent soundcard compared to alternative soundcards AT THE TIME IT WAS POPULAR. Nowadays even newest onboard sounds have better quality than that sound card.

[targeting]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

By the way neither of this photos is mine:

Read the pic above... it says xonar.... and it is for showing the film caps. Can you answer what i wasked?

and the process here is learning... can provide what line level caps are on this board or not?

Then after i do this to this board i can do to a more serious one!

Peace!
I have really interisting photos, let's see:

Are you serious?!!!

The leads of those capacitors catch so more EMI noise and interferences from inside the computer that they completely nullify any benefit they would bring compared to electrolytic capacitors.

Loooks like an audiophool had nothing better to do.

Ridiculous.

Dude, you have a crappy sound card with crappy DACs/opamps... you're just polishing a turd. Yeah, it was a decent soundcard compared to alternative soundcards AT THE TIME IT WAS POPULAR. Nowadays even newest onboard sounds have better quality than that sound card.

Honestly? the SB090 (Audigy Player) that died a few weeks ago had worst sound then this Sb4830. It coould be a better processor for games... but sound... i like this one better! And don't woory i got auzuntech's (prelude) and m-audios(2496) on other computers! Not modded, but i like to start it!

Never underestimate someones just by the questions, we are all learning till we die!

I understand that it have no chance for better opamps. But really want awsners for what i ask!

[mariushm]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

I didn't even look carefully to see if it says xonar or Creative, because that mod is a stupid thing. You don't need 250v rated film capacitors to do dc decoupling on speakers (or whatever they do).

As for the other sound cards... it's all about how you fool yourself into thinking a particular sound card sounds better.
It's enough to check the datasheets of some of those capacitors to burst out laughing.

Here, let me give you a few examples :

Nichicon Muse KZ :

Ideally suited for first class audio equipment where qualitative and quantitative
comfortableness is required.

Tell me, how do you compare the COMFORTABLENESS between two series of capacitors?

elna rfs (silmic-2) :

Due to the silk fiber's pliability, the capacitor makes a dream of the high quality
sound.
For examples ;
● To relieve the music's vibration energy.
● To decrease the peak feeling sound at high compass and rough quality sound at
middle compass.
● To increase massive sound at low compass.

makes a dream ... to relieve the music's vibration energy, peak feeling sound at high compass , rough quality sound .. what the f#$k do those even mean?

It's bullshit..

Yeah, I don't doubt it that the music sounds better for those people who made the mods, but that's because their brains don't want to admit there's minimal difference or they're just fooling themselves.. it's in large part a placebo effect :

http://www.head-fi.org/t/604176/plac...io-enthusiasts
http://www.audioholics.com/editorials/placebo-effect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlhvgG8lRhk

No matter how many mods you do, you still power that sound card from a high frequency switching atx power supply which injects noise in the sound card and the sound card is still within centimeters of noise generating video cards, along with their EMI interferences and other stuff.

Then unless you use coaxial cable from each output, noise from the computer will inject into the speaker cables and add noise.

And if you care so much about sound, why do you even bother with ANALOGUE outputs? You have optical/coax out ... take the digital to analogue conversion made inside the computer out of the equation and transfer the sound digitally (without any distortion or loss) to a receiver/decoder outside the computer which can be powered using a less noisy linear transformer, and has better opamps than the sound card.

If you think some through hole parts on a prototyping boards soldered with a few inches of wires to the pcb would bring a lot of improvement... you're fooling yourself.

[targeting]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

Well i can asume it makes a diference in sound quality the ELNA SILMIC 2, for instance! My Luxman and Denon are full of them! Instead of jamicon caps, or wincaps like the sound blaster jokes caps!

But i see that they cange the caps for audio quality ones because they change the power ones, and change their opamps for better audio quality ones... some requiring external power for the best results!

(thats what azuntech made to their boards with the x-fi processor from creative... puted better audio opamps and audio capacitors, and they sound a lot better quality sound then creative!, Why?) Because of the same caps/opamps people do to theirs boards on the mods!

And yes for the power, that is always the saga, quality demands power.
But i am inclined to pci or pcix boards, always! And like you said if this mods does nothing for audio, i will try on a cheap audio card.. if i see something more!


And yes i know but don't have yet the power supplies for external power feeding opamps or the audio cards... let's see what photos i have about that issue....





















So the way is for external power. Going that direction... heard that a lot, or go external with DAC's... i go internal!

Just gathering all the info i can.

So... the line level rear channel caps for the sound blaster live 4830 on the first photo? Can tell me which is ones are?? If not i will change all for elna silmic 2!

[tom66]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

There may be some minor differences in the output coupling capacitors, properties such as low dielectric absorption, low impedance, low inductance, etc. These may have a tiny (barely audible) difference on the sound. Go wild.

However, when it comes to power supply decoupling, you can't really improve on a basic low ESR cap such as Panasonic FC. If you drop the ESR too low, you can actually cause ringing due to the inductance of the capacitor. This can make the audio worse. Also, dielectric absorption with a decoupling capacitor can be a useful effect.

Another thing to note is the comb effect. http://www.ethanwiner.com/believe.html

Do you see how significant being just 4 inches further/closer can make to the audio? This can create the belief of a "sweet spot" and can also lead to one believing the sound is really better. In reality, little if anything has changed.

[lti]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

Are those discrete transistor op-amps? Why does that one card have a clock crystal soldered on the back?

I don't understand the point of the power supply. I don't think it will do much, if anything. I like the one where one of the CPU fans is sitting against the video card so it can't pull in any air.

If you want to, you can replace the op-amps with better ones. The headphone amp chip could probably be replaced with an op-amp as well if you don't need headphone-level output. They will be hard to remove since they're surface mounted.

If you're going to replace the caps, just use some cheap low ESR caps like Panasonic FM. Panasonic FC series is used for a lot of audio equipment, but those are a little more expensive than most caps.

I don't know why so much home audio equipment uses those caps, but Harman/Kardon just uses the cheapest caps they can find. I've seen Fujicon, Daewoo/Partsnic, Koshin, YEC, and Sam Young. It doesn't hurt anything, but they don't last very long, which means that the device starts sounding worse until it gets recapped.

[targeting]

Re: What is the POWER cap for the CT4830 Sound Blaster LIVE!

What i want to do exactly something like that:

http://www.ronybc.com/ak4531-es1370.php