Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Dannyx
    CertifiedAxhole
    • Aug 2016
    • 3912
    • Romania

    #1

    Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

    Good day folks. Quick discussion here: recently, I've had a couple of dead PC motherboards (both Gigabytes in case your curious), which have died in rather inexplicable circumstances, but both of their "eye witnesses" seem to blame it on roughly the same thing: some sort of power surges.

    One of them is totally dead (GA-H81M-S2 - the PCH and a D-pak transistor nearby get very hot and doesn't run at all, so this is pretty much trash) and the other (GA-H87-HD3) has some signs of life but it's likely not repairable either (only turns on once for a few seconds after having its CMOS battery pulled and then wouldn't do it again. The PCI tester shows "15" in those few seconds when it's actually on - could be the BIOS ?).

    Either way, if anyone could provide some pointers on either of these (schematic, boardview, etc), that would be friggin' awesome, but for now I just want to discuss the probability of them getting damaged by the line voltage, since that's what the chaps who had these claim one way or another. They came into my former shop at different times, so this last one (GA-H87-HD3) apparently died when they had plugged a fridge or some other large appliance like that into the same power strip as the PC. They said they heard a pop and apparently it came from the printer, as the USB port got darkened on that (actually they just said A USB port got darkened and since I couldn't see any charring anywhere on the MB itself, I could only assume that it's on the printer itself)....freak scenario, isn't it ? It's like one of those 1000 stupid ways to die - sounds completely ludicrous, highly unlikely and complicated and would require some planets to align at 12 o'clock on a full moon night on the 13th of Friday on a leap year....or something but the fact remains that the PC died, so we can't entirely dismiss the probability of a power surge or some other electrical phenomenon being the cause here....

    As far as we know, ATX supplies are isolated and regulated, so mains spikes shouldn't affect the output or get physically connected. The chassis of both the PC and the printer would also be earthed. GND of the power rails for both would be chassis (earth) referenced, so the only possible scenario that I can come up with is this fridge having a live wire touching the chassis somehow, though that should've caused an RCD to trip (assuming they have one installed, which I believe they very likely do since this is a public institution we're talking about, properly wired to code by some authorized electricians ).....What do you guys think ? Fact or fiction ? Accident or coincidence ? What would electronics tell us in this scenario ? Is it even remotely possible ? EMP pulse or something ?
    Wattevah...
  • RJARRRPCGP
    Badcaps Legend
    • Jul 2004
    • 6304
    • USA

    #2
    Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

    The issues you have, sounds more like what I would expect, if your outlets use only one leg and are lower voltage outlets, but you're in Europe, so I dunno how that can happen.

    But in the Americas, if 120(-5%)/127 V devices have a bad neutral connection, that can happen. 240(-5%)/254V devices aren't affected, since they don't use a neutral, because they just need to combine both hot legs. It's 1-legged devices with the neutral having poor contact that are at the most risk.

    ->Unless you have service of more than 230V, for a total of 460V or similar and thus need a neutral for 230V devices.

    Makes me think of this thread! ->https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53717
    Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 04-29-2019, 12:35 PM.
    ASRock B550 PG Velocita

    Ryzen 9 "Vermeer" 5900X

    32 GB G.Skill RipJaws V F4-3200C16D-32GVR

    Arc A770 16 GB

    eVGA Supernova G3 750W

    Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD

    Alienware AW3423DWF OLED




    "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

    "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

    "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

    "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

    Comment

    • stj
      Great Sage 齊天大聖
      • Dec 2009
      • 30998
      • Albion

      #3
      Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

      power supplies have a mov that will clamp over 300v and blow the fuse,
      so even if you lost N somehow, which is very rare, you will be protected - atleast the pc will be.
      most of europe is single-phase and earth is bonded to N at the box so the u.s. problem is very difficult to happen.

      Comment

      • Dannyx
        CertifiedAxhole
        • Aug 2016
        • 3912
        • Romania

        #4
        Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

        Yes, it's 230v with non-polarized plugs here, but earth should not be connected to N as far as I know.
        Wattevah...

        Comment

        • ChaosLegionnaire
          HC Overclocker
          • Jul 2012
          • 3264
          • Singapore

          #5
          Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

          Originally posted by Dannyx
          this last one (GA-H87-HD3) apparently died when they had plugged a fridge or some other large appliance like that into the same power strip as the PC. They said they heard a pop and apparently it came from the printer, as the USB port got darkened on that (actually they just said A USB port got darkened and since I couldn't see any charring anywhere on the MB itself, I could only assume that it's on the printer itself).... we can't entirely dismiss the probability of a power surge or some other electrical phenomenon being the cause here....
          to me it looks like the printer is the cause of the problem here. not sure what kind of power brick, adapter or internal psu the printer is using but it has poor isolation from the hot side or ac side of the circuit. so when the fridge got plugged in, it caused a power surge in the printer that jumped to the motherboard via the usb ports, frying the sb or pch.

          it could also be the power strip being used having poor or lack of surge protection or using dodgy components and causing the power surge in the printer psu. crack open the printer psu and power strip and have a look inside. dont assume anything about the design, isolation and electrical code of the client.

          Comment

          • Dannyx
            CertifiedAxhole
            • Aug 2016
            • 3912
            • Romania

            #6
            Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

            Originally posted by ChaosLegionnaire
            not sure what kind of power brick, adapter or internal psu the printer is using but it has poor isolation from the hot side or ac side of the circuit.
            It's very likely a laser printer, so it's powered by AC mains directly - no external supply. That's not to say faults can't occur in either of these setups, since an external brick IS essentially the exact same thing as an internal SMPS, just without a high power output for the lamp.

            Originally posted by ChaosLegionnaire
            dont assume anything about the design, isolation and electrical code of the client.
            Correct - there's always the possibility of some f-up at "outlet-level". The only reason I'm certain it's a proper wiring job is because one of my colleagues, who's an electrician, worked on it and he's pretty rigorous about this sort of thing, so he certainly wouldn't have adopted a good-enough attitude.

            One thing that just occurred to me is that I wasn't actually told whether or not the printer itself still works after that...that could be some useful info when doing detective work like this
            Wattevah...

            Comment

            • RJARRRPCGP
              Badcaps Legend
              • Jul 2004
              • 6304
              • USA

              #7
              Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

              Originally posted by stj
              power supplies have a mov that will clamp over 300v and blow the fuse,
              so even if you lost N somehow, which is very rare, you will be protected - atleast the pc will be.
              most of europe is single-phase and earth is bonded to N at the box so the u.s. problem is very difficult to happen.
              If the equipment uses just 1 hot leg, it needs a neutral. With the neutral missing or having a poor connection, devices using just one hot leg, can act like devices connected in series!

              Yes, I heard of surge protectors, which I got word that they have an MOV, but at the stage of the MOV clamping or similar, it could be too late already.
              Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 05-02-2019, 10:13 AM.
              ASRock B550 PG Velocita

              Ryzen 9 "Vermeer" 5900X

              32 GB G.Skill RipJaws V F4-3200C16D-32GVR

              Arc A770 16 GB

              eVGA Supernova G3 750W

              Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD

              Alienware AW3423DWF OLED




              "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

              "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

              "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

              "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

              Comment

              • RJARRRPCGP
                Badcaps Legend
                • Jul 2004
                • 6304
                • USA

                #8
                Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

                Originally posted by Dannyx
                They came into my former shop at different times, so this last one (GA-H87-HD3) apparently died when they had plugged a fridge or some other large appliance like that into the same power strip as the PC. They said they heard a pop and apparently it came from the printer, as the USB port got darkened on that (actually they just said A USB port got darkened and since I couldn't see any charring anywhere on the MB itself, I could only assume that it's on the printer itself)....freak scenario, isn't it ? It's like one of those 1000 stupid ways to die - sounds completely ludicrous, highly unlikely and complicated and would require some planets to align at 12 o'clock on a full moon night on the 13th of Friday on a leap year....or something but the fact remains that the PC died, so we can't entirely dismiss the probability of a power surge or some other electrical phenomenon being the cause here....
                That sounds like what I would expect with a loss of the neutral, or the neutral being resistive, which can make the fridge or another large appliance be as if it were connected in series, and thus another device on the same leg, gets a surge!
                Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 05-02-2019, 10:23 AM.
                ASRock B550 PG Velocita

                Ryzen 9 "Vermeer" 5900X

                32 GB G.Skill RipJaws V F4-3200C16D-32GVR

                Arc A770 16 GB

                eVGA Supernova G3 750W

                Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD

                Alienware AW3423DWF OLED




                "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

                "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

                "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

                Comment

                • Retro-Hipster
                  Tinkerer
                  • Apr 2019
                  • 125
                  • United States

                  #9
                  Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

                  I know that your friend who is an electrician worked on the outlet, but it still may be worth grabbing a meter and checking to see if it shows the 120 volt potential between neutral and hot and also see if it shows a hundred twenty volt potential between hot and ground. As an IT guy I'm kind of looking at that equivalent to turning it off and on again. Lol it probably isn't that, but if it is and you check a million other things you'll be kicking yourself that you didn't check it sooner.

                  Also, my recommendation would be to get a UPS for the machines. If it does have something to do with surges and whatnot that can really help with conditioning the power. (Not all ups's condition power, but apc one mainly do to my knowledge.)


                  “Men always seem to think about their
                  past before they die, as though they were
                  frantically searching for proof that they
                  truly lived.”
                  – Jet (Cowboy Bebop) -

                  Comment

                  • Dannyx
                    CertifiedAxhole
                    • Aug 2016
                    • 3912
                    • Romania

                    #10
                    Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

                    Originally posted by Retro-Hipster
                    I know that your friend who is an electrician worked on the outlet, but it still may be worth grabbing a meter and checking to see if it shows the 120 volt potential between neutral and hot.
                    That would be 230v, since we're in the EU here
                    Wattevah...

                    Comment

                    • Retro-Hipster
                      Tinkerer
                      • Apr 2019
                      • 125
                      • United States

                      #11
                      Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

                      Oh! Crap! I need to pay attention to the county /line voltage! Lol

                      So I suppose... If I'm thinking of this correct, this would still work. LOL I'm not extraordinarily familiar with plug standards and such on that side of the pond. LOL isn't it single phase 240? I suppose if so, then the same thing would apply only with the 230-volt bit. Haha


                      “Men always seem to think about their
                      past before they die, as though they were
                      frantically searching for proof that they
                      truly lived.”
                      – Jet (Cowboy Bebop) -

                      Comment

                      • Dannyx
                        CertifiedAxhole
                        • Aug 2016
                        • 3912
                        • Romania

                        #12
                        Re: Motherboards getting zapped by power outlets ?

                        Originally posted by Retro-Hipster
                        I'm not extraordinarily familiar with plug standards and such on that side of the pond. LOL isn't it single phase 240? I suppose if so, then the same thing would apply only with the 230-volt bit. Haha
                        EU uses non-polarized type C plugs (or F if it's earthed - "shuko"). Single phase, 230v, 50Hz. L and N are completely interchangeable at plug-level since the plug can be flipped around, unlike UK or AU ones for instance. Have a look here for quicker reference
                        Still, measuring between the L wire of a socket and earth should read 230v indeed, so the idea still applies.
                        Wattevah...

                        Comment

                        Related Topics

                        Collapse

                        • qwerty99
                          Xbox 1.6 Motherboards and Polymer Capacitors
                          by qwerty99
                          Hello!

                          I need to change the capacitors on my three original Xboxes.

                          Two of them are 1.6B revisions and have Hynix RAM, and the other one is a 1.6 with Samsung RAM.

                          The 1.6 has the infamous Nichicon HM capacitors around the CPU, which have all bulged and started to leak. This Xbox no longer powers on.

                          The 1.6B revisions have Rubycon MBZ capacitors that all look fine, but I’ll change them in due course. Both of these work fine.

                          I’ve seen some excellent threads on the forum about replacing/upgrading capacitors, but I can’t...
                          06-26-2022, 12:53 AM
                        • Foetuss
                          Recap motherboards :: Abit KG7-LITE and Soltek SL-75FRN2-L
                          by Foetuss
                          Hi all

                          Hope this is in the correct place.

                          I'm planning on recapping both motherboards. I actually already ordered recplament caps for them, where I will be changing out most for poly's.
                          Could use some double checking to see if I'm not doing something stupid .

                          Pictures of the boards are attached.
                          What I will be replacing with what : (planned)

                          Soltek Golden ::
                          4 1500µF 16V 10mm (5mmL) KZG => APSG160ELL152MJ16S (Chemi-Con 1500µF 16V)
                          6 3300µF 6.3V 10mm (5mmL) KZG => APSG160ELL272MJ20S (Chemi-Con 2700µF 16V)...
                          01-18-2025, 11:44 AM
                        • madscientist750
                          Looking for capacitor lists for Motherboards, Video Cards, Home Appliances
                          by madscientist750
                          I would like to ask if there is some kind of capacitor lists for motherboards, power supplies, video cards, audio cards, microcontroller powered home appliances, and so, that i could try to find and download. I use to repair those things and i would find it helpful if i could know in advance what parts may i need for common repairs.
                          07-09-2024, 09:24 AM
                        • blues_spirit
                          practical courses for troubleshooting pc motherboards
                          by blues_spirit
                          Hello from France,
                          mon2 kindly advised me to post a thread to ask the question(s) I'm concerned about. I'm new to the forum and I'm looking for practical courses for troubleshooting pc motherboards especially laptops in Europe, if possible in France. I have been a computer network system administrator and a corrector of administration modules for automated programs under Unix. But I really miss the practical "ops" side of troubleshooting. So I would like to start from the beginning: 1.8V, 3.3V, 5V and 19V tests for example, etc...
                          Do you think this is feasible for me? I...
                          12-18-2022, 12:56 PM
                        • Deby
                          List of compatible laptop motherboards
                          by Deby

                          This is a list of compatible laptop motherboard information that I have been collecting for some time.
                          And it's still ongoing.
                          Every time I come across information that a board is compatible with another, I write it down.
                          Anyone who wants to, can continue to expand the list.
                          Packed in the rar, is an excel table that has additional information.
                          Motherboards.rar...
                          05-31-2024, 04:34 AM
                        • Loading...
                        • No more items.
                        Working...