Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Spork,

If you want to play with how much power your router uses try dd-wrt.

The only way to reliably determine how many routers/repeaters you will need is to try it. Think of the area that a router covers as donut shaped. A router in the ceiling of the basement may be all you need to cover the basement and the first floor. Don't forget that there are a limited number of 2.4 GHz channels available(with a lot of overlap), if you really are going to shove 4 access points in your house you should be using 5GHz routers and devices that support that frequency.

You should also play with the placement of the access points. In my parents house they have great signal strength on the 2nd floor and the single access point is in the basement on top of a sheet metal cold air return. At my house the only way that I get wireless access in my detached garage is to have the garage repeater up in the garage attic, it's 30 feet away from my main router, Turns out my garage has foil faced fiberglass insulation in the walls and foil covered sheathing.

Right now, I can't try dd-wrt, although I've used it in the past. Time Warner Cable got bought out by some scam company called Spectrum and when we moved, my wife setup the internet, phone and tv in her name. They suckered her in with some promotion but she doesn't know to ask certain questions because she hasn't been taken advantage of a lot in life, she's real trust worthy.

If we break the promotion before it ends, we get billed around 800$ a month. Stupid thing I've ever heard of it. If we add service, like another DVR box, 800$ a month. I've never heard of anything sooooo freaking ridiculous. We can leave, but then we'd have to go for DSL and satellite, something we don't want. So right now, we're stuck with using their stupid wireless cable modem and 50Mbps. I could add a router to the cable modem I guess, but I don't want to do that. I think I'll start saving and slowly converting the house and by the time I get it all done, the 1 year "promotion" should be up and we can renegotiate a new "promotion".

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

A decent wireless AP on the 1st or second floor should be all you need. There are only 2 of you in the house.
As mentioned by televizora, Ubiquiti stuff is good.
Forget the donut shape, buy one that does beamforming.

So right now, a beamforming wireless router is the way to go? We're trying to ignore that there's just two of us. We're redoing each room, one at a time (baby's room first), thinking eventually, we might sell. We do have the occasional guest as well and they always seem to bring some sort of device that connect to the network. Lately, tablets have seem to be the thing. Those things are pretty portable. It'd be nice if they could walk throughout the entire house and not lose internet.

I had (and maybe still have) a wifi signal detector but I think it was for G, not AC. Maybe I should invest in another one to "map" out the signal strength in the various areas. Didn't they make a BackTrack Linux distro that had some app for doing that kind of stuff, and then they renamed it to something else? Might just be able to map it out using the laptop.

[stj]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

you could open your router and fit external antenna connectors.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

you could open your router and fit external antenna connectors.

Yup, I could. But I'd rather just buy something nice for this kinda thing, you know? I love the idea though and I might suggest that for some customers one of these days.

[diif]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

So right now, a beamforming wireless router is the way to go? We're trying to ignore that there's just two of us. We're redoing each room, one at a time (baby's room first), thinking eventually, we might sell. We do have the occasional guest as well and they always seem to bring some sort of device that connect to the network. Lately, tablets have seem to be the thing. Those things are pretty portable. It'd be nice if they could walk throughout the entire house and not lose internet.

I had (and maybe still have) a wifi signal detector but I think it was for G, not AC. Maybe I should invest in another one to "map" out the signal strength in the various areas. Didn't they make a BackTrack Linux distro that had some app for doing that kind of stuff, and then they renamed it to something else? Might just be able to map it out using the laptop.

Big buildings need mapping out, ones with brick and metal walls.
I took the college where I worked from 5 home grade APs to about 35. A proper managed system.
Your wooden house needs one decent AP in the middle.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Diif, when you took your college from 5 to 35 APs, did you change the make and models at all? Or did you keep them at home grade APs? If you changed them, which ones did you go for? Would you recommend the UBTN as well?

When it gets closer, I'll come back here and post what I'm thinking about getting and maybe you guys could help me decide if I'm making the right choice.

[diif]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Diif, when you took your college from 5 to 35 APs, did you change the make and models at all? Or did you keep them at home grade APs? If you changed them, which ones did you go for? Would you recommend the UBTN as well?

When it gets closer, I'll come back here and post what I'm thinking about getting and maybe you guys could help me decide if I'm making the right choice.

When I say managed, I mean enterprise level APs with a central controller and a management console. A managed system. Not available as a single home AP.

Yes, I previously commented on the Ubiquiti stuff. I've not used it personally but I hear good things about it. The only negative thing I hear is warranty returns from the UK but as you're in the US you'll be fine.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

When I say managed, I mean enterprise level APs with a central controller and a management console. A managed system. Not available as a single home AP.

Yes, I previously commented on the Ubiquiti stuff. I've not used it personally but I hear good things about it. The only negative thing I hear is warranty returns from the UK but as you're in the US you'll be fine.

Okay, I know what you're talking about. When you said managed, I wasn't sure if you meant actual manageable hardware or if you were just using the term loosely.

I remember you commenting on the Ubiquiti stuff. For the college though, what did you decide to go with? Did you go with Cisco? I wouldn't think there'd be too many manageable networking devices out there.

[diif]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Okay, I know what you're talking about. When you said managed, I wasn't sure if you meant actual manageable hardware or if you were just using the term loosely.

I remember you commenting on the Ubiquiti stuff. For the college though, what did you decide to go with? Did you go with Cisco? I wouldn't think there'd be too many manageable networking devices out there.

Initially one of the sys admins picked Cisco stuff. Only he was a bit useless and didn't get the right stuff and it wasn't a managed system. I did the wireless survey and wired in all the cat5 cable and sockets. There was no controller and if the APs needed updating they needed to be done one by one.
It was later replaced by a Ruckus system with each AP on a Gigabit to a switch due to the large increase in wireless devices.
The term is managed not manageable, as in it's managed from a central point with a controller/interface.

[televizora]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

I live in New York state, in the United States of America. There's nothing preventing a Venezuela router working with an American wireless NIC, so long as the frequencies are the same, right? So an AC router from Venezuela would work with an AC wireless NIC from America, right?

Here, our houses are made out of wood. ...

@ Rant on - So de facto you are living in wooden/cardboard houses. I really don't know why the people in USA make such a big mistake, when they are choosing what the new house should be. On the first stronger wind or woodworm, the house is blown away or becomes pile of junk.
I really don't understand you, folks... I will never live in cardboard house, because I want to build something from now and forever..
@ Ranf off
Wood is not such a signal attenuator, so you will be able to cover the house with wifi with fewer devices, than if it was steel/concrete building. This is the one(maybe the only) advantage of the wooden houses.
Forget Cisco stuff. Way too expensive for the performance they provide.
About the repeaters - I really really hope that you won't connect the repeaters wirelesly in a cascade manner.
The 5-4-3-2-1 rule is for 10Mbps Ethernet, where the connection is made with stupid hubs/repeaters. This rule doesn't apply in your case.
Every wireless device will connect to your router, no matter what region you choose for the router. If you want to install UBNT device, set it to compliance test or again Venezuela. The channels 1-11 are common for all the countries.
Just..DO NOT connect your wireless routers/AP-s as wireless repeaters. Just connect every router to the main(first one) using Ethernet and you should be just fine. When you repeat the signal using wireless only, the bandwidth of the repeater is divided by 2. So if you install 5 routers in cascade, the 5th will have 1/2/2/2/2 of the wireless bandwidth.

[stj]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

American kids are never read the story of the 3 little pigs.
probably because the government represents the big bad wolf!!!

come out with your hands in the air, or i'll huff & i'll puff, and i'll blow your house down!

[rhomanski]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

The people are trained to own their own homes but can't afford anything but wood. The wealthy have concrete and steel or maybe stone, now though they are going underground because of the directed energy weapons and spying equipment.

In the 1970's scientists told the government they would have imaging radar soon, so the government started a big campaign to get people to stop using and remove lead based paint. "for the children" which they didn't care about until they found out it would interfere with radar. So it had to go and we had to pay for it's removal.

[televizora]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

The people are trained to own their own homes but can't afford anything but wood.

Really? The wood is very expensive material. It's more expensive to build wooden house than concrete house.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Initially one of the sys admins picked Cisco stuff. Only he was a bit useless and didn't get the right stuff and it wasn't a managed system. I did the wireless survey and wired in all the cat5 cable and sockets. There was no controller and if the APs needed updating they needed to be done one by one.
It was later replaced by a Ruckus system with each AP on a Gigabit to a switch due to the large increase in wireless devices.
The term is managed not manageable, as in it's managed from a central point with a controller/interface.

Thanks for correcting me about the managed / manageable stuff, I don't know what I was thinking. My wife went back to her job and now my responsibilities as a parent have increased a good deal. I'm not getting a lot of sleep. I've been trying to take naps when the baby naps, but past few days, she hasn't really napped much. I am sooooo tired!

To me, something like a managed switch is a switch you can log into and turn the ports on / off, configure them, maybe check out their stats, etc.

I want to have a central location in the basement that has everything. Like a media enclosure. That's where the coax, the cat 5 for telephone, the cat 6 gigabit, the splitters, the cable modem, the switch, etc would go.

I really want a rack but I don't think that's a good choice for the house. If we ever sell, I don't think customers would know what to do with it and I'd be really attached! I have a lot of rack mountable equipment, so maybe I'll get one for that but still use some sort of enclosure for everything else.

[stj]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

well it is in Europe,
maybe u.s. lumber is subsidised - wouldnt surprise me as i know they blocked the free import of canadian lumber.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

@ Rant on - So de facto you are living in wooden/cardboard houses. I really don't know why the people in USA make such a big mistake, when they are choosing what the new house should be. On the first stronger wind or woodworm, the house is blown away or becomes pile of junk.
I really don't understand you, folks... I will never live in cardboard house, because I want to build something from now and forever..
@ Ranf off
Wood is not such a signal attenuator, so you will be able to cover the house with wifi with fewer devices, than if it was steel/concrete building. This is the one(maybe the only) advantage of the wooden houses.
Forget Cisco stuff. Way too expensive for the performance they provide.
About the repeaters - I really really hope that you won't connect the repeaters wirelesly in a cascade manner.
The 5-4-3-2-1 rule is for 10Mbps Ethernet, where the connection is made with stupid hubs/repeaters. This rule doesn't apply in your case.
Every wireless device will connect to your router, no matter what region you choose for the router. If you want to install UBNT device, set it to compliance test or again Venezuela. The channels 1-11 are common for all the countries.
Just..DO NOT connect your wireless routers/AP-s as wireless repeaters. Just connect every router to the main(first one) using Ethernet and you should be just fine. When you repeat the signal using wireless only, the bandwidth of the repeater is divided by 2. So if you install 5 routers in cascade, the 5th will have 1/2/2/2/2 of the wireless bandwidth.

So how should I be connecting the wireless routers / APs? Hard wire each of them to the switch in the basement and then have the switch wired into the cable modem? One would still need to be set as a router and not a repeater, but just have all them hard wired to the switch? Only once in my life did a play with a repeater before. It was a cheap one made for consumers. Even though I successfully finished the networking program, we never learned what we needed to. The professor would give us the teachers editions so we'd score really high on the homework and for the tests, he'd show us how to google the answers. They were CCNA courses, so Cisco was providing the material. If we didn't score high, they would have noticed. It was good for getting high grades, everyone taking the networking classes had a real high GPA, but it was worthless. I tried telling some of the kids. We're paying for an education and when we're done here, we're not going to be able to go out in the real world and get a job as a system admin or something. But I guess they just cared about the piece of paper and not the actual knowledge.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Really? The wood is very expensive material. It's more expensive to build wooden house than concrete house.

I find this hard to believe! I'm not calling you a liar or anything, but we wanted a small cement slab outback to park our car. 20 foot by 20 foot or so. That's around 3,000$, if not more! That's insane! I couldn't imagine how much a completely concrete house would cost. That 20'x20' would only be 6" deep or so.

I don't know why we use wood either, with the technology's we have now a days. Almost all the houses we looked at were wood. They look nice, don't get me wrong, but you can still use wood inside a house for trim and have the guts of the house made out of something that'll last. The brick houses we looked at were way too small but more than what we could afford. They were what I'd call a single story house but I guess technically, there were two floors. The basement was the garage though and the garages were always built into the house. These houses on this one block, they all looked the same. The neighborhood was a bit weird. We saw some of the neighbors and they just seemed a bit higher class than us. I'm not saying that's bad or that you can tell just by looking at people. But all their cars were real fancy, one guy that we saw walking in next to us, he actually had a suit on!!! Around here, you don't see a lot of people wearing suits, unless they're selling something like life insurance! Maybe he worked for a life insurance policy? I got the impression he probably worked for Corning Glass though.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

The receptacle and wall plate came today. We have a friend coming to take pictures of us and the baby in front of the Christmas tree in a little bit here. I was napping when he called. Once he leaves, I'm going to start (and hopefully finish!!!) this job.

I see on the receptacle a sticker that says this:

THE LOAD TERMINALS UNDER THIS LABEL ARE FOR FEEDING ADDITIONAL
RECEPTACLES. [B]MISWIRING CAN LEAVE THIS OUTLET WITHOUT GROUND
FAULT PROTECTION. READ INSTRUCTIONS PRIOR TO WIRING[/B]

I'll read the instructions but what I expect is when I pull out the old receptacle, hopefully I see where the bathroom fan is somehow connected to the old GFCI outlet. If it is, if I understand everything correctly, I should take the hot wire (the black) that goes to the bathroom fan and wrap it around one of the screws under that label.

Then, I just take the neutral, ground, and hot wire and wire them up normal like to the receptacle (the ones that come from the panel). I'll be sure to trip the breaker first.


I'm trying to think of how the previous owners could have wired it up where when the GFCI outlet trips, the bathroom fan still works. Somehow, they're connected, because when I flip the switch to the fan, sometimes it trips the GFCI outlet, but the fan still runs. My cousin came over and said the fan should NOT be hooked to the GFCI outlet. He said the fan and light should be on their own breaker. Is this true? I thought back in the day people wired outlets on one breaker (usually 12-2) and then switches and lights on a separate breaker (usually 14-2). But I thought now-a-days, it didn't matter so much, so long as the wire could handle the load.

What do you guys think?

[televizora]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

I find this hard to believe! I'm not calling you a liar or anything, but we wanted a small cement slab outback to park our car. 20 foot by 20 foot or so. That's around 3,000$, if not more!

Here, there are almost all houses are made of stone/bricks/concrete.
The price of 3000$ for bricks is just extortion.

So how should I be connecting the wireless routers / APs? Hard wire each of them to the switch in the basement and then have the switch wired into the cable modem? One would still need to be set as a router and not a repeater, but just have all them hard wired to the switch? Only once in my life did a play with a repeater before. It was a cheap one made for consumers. Even though I successfully finished the networking program, we never learned what we needed to. The professor would give us the teachers editions so we'd score really high on the homework and for the tests, he'd show us how to google the answers. They were CCNA courses, so Cisco was providing the material. If we didn't score high, they would have noticed. It was good for getting high grades, everyone taking the networking classes had a real high GPA, but it was worthless. I tried telling some of the kids. We're paying for an education and when we're done here, we're not going to be able to go out in the real world and get a job as a system admin or something. But I guess they just cared about the piece of paper and not the actual knowledge.

Just connect all the routers to your cable modem/primary router. You can either set your routers as wireless switches(disable DHCP and set every router LAN management address to differ from the others) or you can just connect the routers to the primary. In the first case, the routers will act as switches and all the addresses will be given from the first router or cable modem, in the second case the first router will give each router 1 private IP, and then this IP will pass thru NAT. In this case every router will give private IP from it's individual DHCP server, and all connections will pass thru NAT. Both cases will provide you working network, but in the first one you will have transparent network, method which has it's advantages.

[diif]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Your wireless access point or points would be wired to the switch. No need for repeaters.

Normally it would be Cable modem->firewall->switch .
Your AP then plugged in to the switch as well as all your other Cat5e and Cat6 sockets.