Replacing BGA components with hot air.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I feel very sorry for you Hope you get a replacement or a refund..

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

So, before you guys posted back, I had unpacked the unit to see if there was any more damage. I found a piece of metal floating around, looks like it broke off of something. However, I don't think it came from this unit. I unpacked it, there's a missing transformer for the CCD camera or for the monitor, they both use a 12 transformer so I'm not sure which one it's for. The monitor says 12v / 4A. The transformer says 12v / 3A. I couldn't see the small CCD camera using 3A so I think maybe it's for the monitor. That's not a big deal though, I can just find a transformer.

Then the suction pen is missing the actual suction cup on it. I was hoping that'd be intact because I really wanted to use it to lift chips. I've contacted Scotle to see how much an IR heating element and suction cup would cost.

The seller is contacting FedEx. I sent all the pictures they asked me to send. They wanted pictures of the inside of the box, the outside, etc. For the most part, the box looks okay. I mean, there's small damage in the corner and you can tell, looking at the foam, that it's been dropped.

What happens if FedEx is found to be at fault? Do they pay to get the unit fixed? Do I have to send the item back and the seller gives me a refund and takes it up with FedEx? I'd rather keep the unit and fix it myself, but I feel I shouldn't have to pay for the parts and should get something for my troubles. I agree that more than likely, FedEx dropped it somewhere along the way. It could have been packaged better as well.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I contacted FedEx and gave them the shipping number. They said the seller has already initiated a claim. They explained the whole process to me. They said the seller has to submit pictures of the damage and proof of price (how much the unit is worth). Then, they'll make a decision in 5-7 days. If it's denied, they'll give a reason as to why it's denied in a letter.

If it's approved, they'll mail the seller a check for what the unit is worth. Now, if the seller gets a check for what the unit's worth, it's just a question of whether he's going to give me the whole amount or just enough to buy a replacement part and fix it myself.

I'm hoping I get the whole amount. It's gonna be a lot of work to replace the component. I'm not even sure replacing it is enough. From what I've been reading, there might be some calibration that's required. If one of the heating elements is putting out a lot more heat than the other ones, that might cause some issues, you know? Warpage, etc. I might have to send the unit out and get it calibrated, I dunno.

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you may find the lcd display is cracked or some other "hidden" damage too.
of course none of this explains the missing parts!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Right. I was hoping if FedEx paid for it, the guy would just split the cash with me. However, it seems that he's just going to send me the missing part. It's a heck of a lot harder getting to those IR heating elements than you'd think. I thought I could just remove the top cover and go from there, but nope. I had to pretty much tear the whole thing apart. Wires needed to be unhooked but they're crimped to wires that go to different areas, so multiple parts needed to be removed (or I could of tried decrimping the wires, which I think would have been a bad idea).

So far, 4 hours of work and I'm almost there. Putting it back together is probably going to take a lot longer because I'm going to have to keep looking at the pictures I took to figure out how all the wires are wound. There's wires that go into harnesses with other wires, I had to unwind some of the wire harnesses, cut wire ties, etc. What a freaking mess!

[rhomanski]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Sorry to hear about your trouble Spork. I know exactly what you are going through. Just imagine someone handed it to you all tore up and gave you the new part and then went home. That was my job for years. Misery loves company. Lol. You'll get it done I'm confident.

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you paid for a working unit, it's not your job to repair it.
tell the seller to replace it or refund the money.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Well, I got the old one out. It took around 6 hours. I thought I was almost there when I originally posted but no, I had a bit more work to do. Someone had taken the original top bling off around the preheater for some reason. I could tell because the screws were stripped. I can't figure out why they'd do that, unless they were trying to replace the heating element, like I was. At first, I thought that was how it came apart so I took the top bling off...but then I realized it was just for decoration and actually served no real purpose...which leads me to wonder why someone would have removed that (with the wrong sized screw driver, none-the-less).

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Sorry to hear about your trouble Spork. I know exactly what you are going through. Just imagine someone handed it to you all tore up and gave you the new part and then went home. That was my job for years. Misery loves company. Lol. You'll get it done I'm confident.

Yeah, from the sounds of it, that's exactly what's going to happen. After the seller asked me to take a good one out and measure it, I sent him a message saying I had accomplished the task and that it took around 6 hours. When I first started, I sent him a message saying it was going to be harder than I thought and was going to take a while (after I looked at it a bit).

So, I see he sent me a message and it says not to take it apart, in case FedEx wants to see the damaged part! After I spent 6 hours taking it apart!!! I thought he knew it needed to be completely ripped apart in order for me to remove one of the good ceramic heating elements and measure it.

I really hope I didn't mess things up. I think it was just miscommunication, you know? But now I gotta make a decision. I'm pretty sure these really really cheap 12.45$ 220v / 230v 600 watt infrared heating elements are the exact same ones used in this unit: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-...08.4.44.SJfZF9

Even the lettering is the same. It looks identical, the way the coils are routed, the clip, the wording, the spacing of the words, the length of the words, everything. Since I got it all torn apart, do I just put one of those extremely cheap heating elements in, or, since I got it all torn apart, do I order some nice Elstein's or something and upgrade the unit?

I'm not going to do anymore until we figure out what FedEx is going to do...but when it comes time, what would you guys do? Upgrade the unit or just use the same cheap part? Thanks.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you paid for a working unit, it's not your job to repair it.
tell the seller to replace it or refund the money.

Replacing it isn't an option, because it's the only one he had (unless he buys one specifically to send). I'm okay with repairing it, so long as I get something for repairing it. I don't think I should have to pay full price and have to work 12 hours getting this thing fixed. But at the same time, I don't want to send it back. More than likely, FedEx broke it. So more than likely, they're going to pay some money, if not all of it, to someone. I think I should be the one getting the money, not the seller. What do you think?

[rhomanski]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

You should most definitely get it. The seller got what he wanted for a working unit. You got screwed. As far as better parts, I think you should look at the other parts. If the whole thing is cheap and likely to fail go with the cheaper. That also depends on the price difference too. On my stuff, I usually upgrade unless it's going to cost me $1000 instead of $25. I usually buy Nichicon because they're only 5 cents more.

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

i wonder if he shipped it fucked - that stripped screws thing is a bit of a givaway!

i have heard of things like this before with people shipping tv's with a smashed panel so they can claim insurance!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

You should most definitely get it. The seller got what he wanted for a working unit. You got screwed. As far as better parts, I think you should look at the other parts. If the whole thing is cheap and likely to fail go with the cheaper. That also depends on the price difference too. On my stuff, I usually upgrade unless it's going to cost me $1000 instead of $25. I usually buy Nichicon because they're only 5 cents more.

Yeah, there's not really much to this. I'll send some pics before it gets put back together. But mostly, just connectors that connect wires together. And there is a ton of wires! Wires going to connectors that connect to more wires that go to other connectors. I mean, we got some fans to blow the heat to the top heating unit. We have the top heating element (which seems a bit cheap, at least compared to how my Weller did it). Then there's the IR units. Just a bunch of wires and a thermocouple, that I can't move, attached. I'm guessing the thermocouple just measures the temps of the preheater. I'd rather of had the ability to hook that to the bottom of the board and measure the IR temp that way.

Then there's the bottom heater. I haven't really looked at how that works. The top hot air hooks to the bottom unit via a 7-pin wire harness. The top is unscrewable and removeable. The other end is unscrewable but it just doesn't look removeable (wtf?). Only 4 of the pins are being used from what I can tell (maybe 5). Two for the fan, two for the heating element. The fan is just a PC fan, a small one. There's a side fan to cool the board down. I think that's pretty useless because I think they should cool down naturally, not be forced to cool down faster. The touch screen was built by a different company and is a complete module. I can remove it. There's a thermocouple built into the top hot air, the bottom hot air and the pre-heater. Then I get my own external k-type thermocouple. I can pull out the drawer that contains the electronics but there's no stop or anything. If I pull it out far enough, I'll rip wires off. If I push it back in, I have to watch to make sure I don't tear any wires. There's these plastic things, the stuff you hide ethernet cable in I think. Conduit or something. That covers most of the wire mess. There's maybe three actual electronic devices that all the wires go to.

I'd like to get an idea of how to properly control the infrared preheaters and build my own unit. I'd like to design the pid controller myself. I'm okay with using an IC but I don't want to use a pre-built unit, you know?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I tried doing my best here. I thought if I went out and bought the real nice IR heating elements, I could use them later in another project. For example, I purchase the nice ones, hook them up to this machine, then I have these cheap ones to experience with while I'm trying to work out my PID controller. Once I get the bugs ironed out, I can switch the nice ones over to my new unit. You know?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I'm going to go directly to the box. We have two 50 amp breakers that are free but I'm not going to use them. I'd like some suggestions on how to wire this up. My wife went to Corning Building Company and they said they have a dryer outlet that's 30 amp. Our current dryer is hooked up to two 30 amp breakers. Is that what we want?

Something's a bit odd here. I was looking at the connector on the BGA unit. It's a 6-20P (I think that's what they're called). This is the exact one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...WY4MXJEDBMY2V5

It's only rated for 20A. The wire going to the connector says 12 gauge. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the maximum 240v 20amp wire / connector only capable of handling 4,800 watts?

240v * 20a = 4,800 watts...

This unit's supposed to use 4,800 watts. Isn't that kind of dumb? Should the wire be a higher gauge and the connector be rated for a higher amperage? Or is it safe to use a wire rated for exactly the same amperage / wattage I'm going to be using?

Also, if the unit is going to be using 20 amp, I guess I could just wire up two 15-amp breakers, right? I'd rather do this the proper way though. Maybe it's best if I replace that 12-gauge with something a little thicker and put a different connector on it. I'm going to be going directly from the box to the work room. I'm going to be tearing down sheet rock. Any suggestions?

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

20A should handle 5000w
the wires rating is for continuous use - so no problems.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

20A should handle 5000w
the wires rating is for continuous use - so no problems.

This really got me worried a good bit. The 20A wire that plugs into the wall, the one where they had an electrician come in and install it, that's thick enough (from what you just told me Stj). But the wires they hook to inside, they're much skinner wires. I think the actual wires in my wall, the 120v ones, are thicker than the ones in this unit.

If you think that's safe, could you help me pick out a good outlet? Also, what size breaker should I hook it up to?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Would this be a good one?

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5842-I...0+volt+outlets

It's even made by the same company that made the plug itself...

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Also, I figure I'm going to remove the double 50 amp breaker and replace it with a double 20-amp. Would flipping the main switch to the breaker be safe enough to run the wire and all that jazz? Or should I call the electric company and have them kill the entire power coming to the house? I'm thinking just flipping the main breaker would be enough. Watching a video on how to do this, it doesn't seem that hard. It looks kind of easy like. I might even just go with the 30 amp double breaker and run wire strong enough for 30-amp. If I do that, should I go for 10-gauge or 12-gauge you think? I was under the impression if it's a short enough distance, 12-gauge would be fine. But because I'm going a good ways, I should probably run 10-gauge, right?

Nothing special to the wire either, right? Any 10-gauge would work, wouldn't it? Just instead of having the white as neutral, I have the white as hot and the black is still hot. Right? I wonder if I should look into that MC-12-2 or whatever it's called. I'm just going to be running it probably over the rafters, instead of drilling through all of them. I'd like to keep everything up to code.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I got a free two-pole 30-amp breaker so I think I'll just use that. Just gotta pick the right wire now...