Replacing BGA components with hot air.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

i'v heard about the NASA auctions - some guys on the SGI forum went and got a lot of computer gear.
several pallets of it.

Yeah, that's what we did. We drove a very long way, left at 9pm at night or so. Got there really early in the morning. It was crazy, we needed a pickup slip and figured we'd just stop at a library and print one. They hadn't sent the e-mail by the time we got down there! We had paid and everything. We waited a good two hours to get the e-mail. Then, when we started driving in, we saw the dogs and got scared. My friend was with me and he had some weed. The dogs were with armed guards who were going around the cars, like military folk. That scared us even more. I told me friend, if we back up, they're going to shoot us! What do we do? We took our chances. When it was our turn, the guys used these mirrors and stuck them under our car. They were on long sticks. I don't think the dogs were drug dogs, I think they were bomb dogs!!! I think they were looking for terrorists!!! The dogs didn't bark at all.

We got cool badges, I still got mine. We picked up our pallet, stopped at the store to buy some no-doze and then we drove all the way home. It was crazy fun.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

They had an endoscopy unit they were auctioning off. I wanted that soooo bad but someone outbid me. I thought it'd be cool as hell to look down into my friend's stomachs. My friend Jason said if I bought it, he'd let me put it down his throat but we'd have to get him nice and drunk first. It went for a lot of money and I never got it.

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you can get those for $10 from china now for engine inspection etc.

btw, NASA is owned by the military / DOD so that explains the security.
they dont want spys finding images of any secret shit like x-planes,space assets etc.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you can get those for $10 from china now for engine inspection etc.

btw, NASA is owned by the military / DOD so that explains the security.
they dont want spys finding images of any secret shit like x-planes,space assets etc.

Yeah, we figured they were bomb dogs but we thought for sure they'd be trained for drugs as well!

So, that Scotle HR-460C....you know how it has that bottom hot air heater? You thought that was a good idea, because it'd hit it from both ends, right?

What do you think though? I have some components that aren't BGA. They're SMD. I was going to use this for some of those type of components as well as BGA. But here's the thing, on the bottom side, there's SMD components directly under the SMD ICs. So, if I cannot turn off that bottom heater, I'd think those components would just melt right off. What do you think?

The Zeph got freaking sold on me. I was trying to get clarification from a guy on another site. He said something about my 600 watt preheater being enough to work with BGA equipment and me being able to use my WHA-900 to do BGA rework by hand. While I was waiting for clarification (to see if I misunderstood him), someone bought that freaking Zeph unit. I wanted that more than anything.

So now I'm going to probably buy the Scotle HR-460C. I just want to make sure I can turn off that bottom hot air heater (or keep the temp real low, like pre-heating temps).

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

get the manual, so you can see how it works - i know nothing about the touch-interface.
my m8's one uses a pair of PLC's

[diif]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

The bottom heat is used for warming the whole board to about 100c. It shouldn't be at the temperature where smd components are falling off.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

The bottom heat is used for warming the whole board to about 100c. It shouldn't be at the temperature where smd components are falling off.

There's two bottom heat sources though. The first is the infrared. The second is hot air that goes directly underneath the BGA component. The gentleman said the purpose of that bottom one is to apply a more uniform heat source to the BGA stuff so it doesn't cause warping.

I guess the temp can be controlled separately, I just hope I can make that bottom hot air the same temp as the bottom infrared sources for certain components. Thanks Diif.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

get the manual, so you can see how it works - i know nothing about the touch-interface.
my m8's one uses a pair of PLC's

I've read the manual. It's pretty useless. I guess there's a default password set, at the factory. That's not even included in the manual. It seems like it was written by someone who didn't really understand English very well. It's hard to follow in a lot of places and has Chinese (I think) with English.

The user manual looks more like a selling brochure. It lists all the features but doesn't really explain jack. Thankfully, there's video's online of people who figured it out. I couldn't find many English sites that talked about the unit so I used Google Translate. People were saying how they wished the manual went more in detail about how to use the touch screen interface. I agree, the manual on Scotle's website just doesn't really go into detail!

I bought the item though. It's a lot of money. It comes with a jig and some stencils for 360's, PS3's and some northbridge chips the guy says. I'm thinking of buying one of those 200 piece sets. A friend on here, who I've been communicating via private messaging, has been giving me a lot of help about the reballing process and answering all my questions.

From what I understand, there's two types of stencils. Hot ones and cold ones. If your chip isn't pre-balled, after cleaning it, etc, you put it in the jig and put flux on it. Then, with the cold type stencils, you put the stencil in the other half of the jig. You attach them and sprinkle your balls to fill the stencil. Then, very careful like, you remove the top part of the jig with the stencil and add heat to melt the balls.

I believe with the hot type of stencils, similar process, but you add heat while the stencil is still attached, if I'm understanding correctly. That way, you don't gotta worry so much about the balls moving out of place and all that jazz.

What do you guys think? Should I be looking for a giant set of heat type stencils? I think there's mainly two different sizes of stencils as well and the jigs aren't compatible with the two types. There's the 90mm jig that accepts the 90mm stencils and then there's some other size one. I'm going to try and find more information on this before I place any more orders.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I watched a video on the heat stencils. I mean, it seems like there's pros and cons to both type of stencils. With the heat stencils, I gotta line the stencil up exactly with the BGA component, but I don't have to worry about the balls moving out of place once it's lined up.

With the non-heat stencils, because everything's in a jig, it doesn't look like I have to worry about that. But I gotta remove the stencil before applying heat and the balls can get moved out of place...hrmm, which way do I go? Buy the heat stencils, buy the jig and the non-heat stencils?

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

think about what your going to be doing before buying stuff.

most times you dont need to reball anyway - just reflow with decent flux.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

think about what your going to be doing before buying stuff.

most times you dont need to reball anyway - just reflow with decent flux.

Wouldn't it just about always be better to completely reball than just reflow? I mean, there's really no way without an x-ray machine to see what's under the chip, right? No real way to see if there's solder bridges...I figured since I'm going to have the machine, just remove the chip that needs to be removed, clean the board, clean the chip, reball the chip, reattach the chip to the board. If that doesn't work, replace the chip.

Does anyone have any good suggestions for some lead-free no-clean flux for reballing?

[diif]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Amtech 4300. Nice and sticky.

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you can lift the chip, clean old flux from the chip and board and put it down again with original solder.
you can inspect for bridging then.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Amtech 4300. Nice and sticky.

Thanks Diif. Amtech LF-4300, right? LF for Lead-Free I think. It says it's washable no clean flux. I'm guessing that means if I decided I wanted to wash it, it'd wash off but I don't actually have to wash it off...

I've heard there's a lot of fake flux floating around out there. Any reputable sources for the Amtech LF-4300? Thanks.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I found the answer about the cleaning:

4300/LF-4300-TF is a water washable tacky flux that
can be left on the board for many SMT assemblies.
For applications requiring cleaning, 4300/LF-4300-TF
can be cleaned using di-ionized water at 40-60 °C
with a recommended water pressure of 30-50 PSI.

I've heard of distilled water before. I wonder if that's the same as di-ionized. No idea how I'd get 30-50 PSI of it on the board though. Hopefully, everything I do, it won't require cleaning.

I should add, I want a jar of the stuff, not a syringe. Thanks.

I think I found it, this stuff is what I'm going for:
http://www.solderandmore.com/4300-ta...a-75-gram-jar/

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I'm freaking out. Supposedly, FedEx came and knocked on my door today but I didn't hear anyone freaking knock. My mentally challenged brother, who lives next door with my parents, was the only one home there. He went out and said the FedEx man made him sign for the package and help him carry it to the house. When my parents got home, they said this giant package was on the door steps. My dad said it was sideways, it has arrows and shit saying this side up but it was upside down. Anyway, here's pictures of the unit! I just opened it up to make sure everything was there.

I could tell what happened. The top heater was disconnected and laying on top of the IR preheater module or whatever you want to call it. Someone dropped the box or something and that heavy top heater smashed the freaking pre-heater module thing.

I have no idea what to do now. I contacted the seller and let him know via e-bay messages.

I'm thinking FedEx never knocked on my door. I figure my brother seen the truck, ran out there and said he'd take the package. I figure he helped them carry it and he claims he gently set his end down but the FedEx guy just dropped his end. I think if anything, it was the other way around. Or it got damaged in shipping. What the heck do I do??

[diif]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Contact the seller and send them your photos.
Avoid that flux, looks fake to me, buy from a genuine dealer. I buy 4300 and 559 from a genuine seller in 10cc and then I add a needle nozzle(screws straight on) and a syringe as a plunger.
https://ultrakeet.com.au/write-ups/fluxInfo

Looks like its just one heater, but that's poor packaging, my top heater and its mount came boxed separately.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Contact the seller and send them your photos.
Avoid that flux, looks fake to me, buy from a genuine dealer. I buy 4300 and 559 from a genuine seller in 10cc and then I add a needle nozzle(screws straight on) and a syringe as a plunger.
https://ultrakeet.com.au/write-ups/fluxInfo

Looks like its just one heater, but that's poor packaging, my top heater and its mount came boxed separately.

Thanks, I've contacted the seller and sent photos. I'm waiting for his response. I couldn't figure out why he didn't box the top heater separately until I tried moving it.

The top heater has a wire. That wire connects to the top heater and is removable. You just unscrew it and pull the wire out. The other end of the wire screws into the base unit. However, it's a much cheaper plastic connector. If you unscrew it, it doesn't come apart as far as I can tell. The screw part seems to be just for looks! I can send pictures. I didn't want to pull too hard for fear of breaking it. I'm thinking I'm probably going to have to replace that broken ceramic heating element. I'm going to have to tear apart the whole unit to get to it, unsolder it, etc. I won't do anything until the owner gets back to me. However, if I gotta take it apart, I would probably replace some components with nicer ones.

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

fedex probably did that, they only have one guy in the truck, and that bitch is too heavy for one guy.
i know someone who worked for fedex btw, you dont want to know how they load the trucks, it's done with an elevated conveyer that drops the parcels on the loading bay behind the truck!

[diif]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I wouldn't touch it any further until you hear back.