Looking to buy my first hot air station.

[sean0118]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

...
So just beware with these hot air stations. They work alright, but if you get one, make sure to open it and inspect everything and never leave it plugged in unattended...

Also, double check that live, neutral and earth are all connected correctly internally.

In this case all exposed metal parts were accidentally connected to live:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/de...6035/#msg46035

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

I have a Xytronics LF-852D and I'm not that satisfied with it.
Maybe I should have gone for the 852DII with 400W more power or go for something entirely different...

Well, either my expectations were too high or the power of this unit isn't that good...


Anyway, the Weller WHA900 seems decent, but maybe cost a bit more than you're willing to pay.

[stj]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

i think we need to ask what people expect from these things.
they arent really for trying to reflow big bga chips.

i use mine mostly with a 2.5mm outlet head.

btw, a friend had one of the pump-in-base ones melt, the triac shorted and held the element on.

i'm thinking a good safety mod would be triacs on both element feeds or 2 triacs in series.
also, over-engineering the triac gate drive.
that or replacing it with a solid-state relay module.
those contain zero-crossing circuits and snubbers.

[momaka]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

Also, double check that live, neutral and earth are all connected correctly internally.

Like I said, check EVERYTHING!

In this case all exposed metal parts were accidentally connected to live:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/de...6035/#msg46035

Not saying that these smaller fan-in-handle units are worse than the pump-in-base stations... but in terms of QC/QA, they just might be. My 852D+ was a hack-job too (came with a US 120V cord, but the station itself was made for the 220/230V market, so it didn't run right without my modifications.)

i think we need to ask what people expect from these things.
they arent really for trying to reflow big bga chips.

+1

The best you can do with these stations is put new solder balls on a removed chip. I used my 852D+ for putting new Leaded solder balls on various chips - mostly Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 GPUs. Even did a few PS3 GPUs that still had the head spreaders on them (but it took a lot longer).

And, of course, for removing QFN and other delicate SMD parts.

btw, a friend had one of the pump-in-base ones melt, the triac shorted and held the element on.

i'm thinking a good safety mod would be triacs on both element feeds or 2 triacs in series.
also, over-engineering the triac gate drive.

Or just use more powerful Triacs. I haven't look at what's in mine (actually, I did, but I forgot as it was a long time ago.)

that or replacing it with a solid-state relay module.
those contain zero-crossing circuits and snubbers.

Many of the cheaper SSRs (Solid-State Relays) use Triacs, such as the BTA12, BTA16, and BTA20... or similar.
And I am pretty sure these stations also use a zero-crossing circuit. If not, you would hear it. Anything that doesn't do zero-crossing will be making lots of noise back in the line. The "light dimmers" I posted on the previous page in post #20 do NOT have zero-crossing switching, and I can actually hear them making buzzing noises as I adjust their output.

That said, I have driven a 1 kW heating element with those light dimmers, and they didn't die/short-out. So why the Triacs short in these soldering stations?
Again, my guess would be that they are undersized and/or run too hot due to iny heatsink.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

Anyone measured the temperature of these triacs when on (i.e. voltage drop)?

Also I wonder how "fake" these triacs are (i.e., says good for 4A when it's a 1A unit inside)...

[stj]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

i doubt they are fake, just hardly heatsinked - if at all.

[momaka]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

i doubt they are fake, just hardly heatsinked - if at all.

How do you know that? IMO, there is a good reason to doubt the genuineness of cheap Chinese stations build with cheap Chinese parts. The fact that they don't seem well-heatsinked just aggravates the problem.

I can try measuring the temperature of the Triac in my station, but I have a feeling I won't be giving you all good results. Part of the reason why is, because (as I might have mentioned before) my 852D+ is a 220/230V station that the Chinese simply swapped the cord to make it a 110/120V station. Hence, the hot air heater coils probably draw only 1/4 of their rated power. And perhaps that is why it still hasn't burned itself out after so many years of use in the repair shop where I got it from.

[stj]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

you should just run a 240v feed from your panel.

[momaka]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

^That'd mess up the house insurance bigtime if something happened.

I could run 240 V to the garage from the dryer plug in the laundry (since it is adjacent to it)... but I've already modified my 852D+ to work with 120V. That is, I added a second (similar) transformer to the one that was already in it. Primaries are in parallel, while secondaries in series. Thus, I now get the proper full 24 V AC to the iron and 10 V AC to the logic boards (no more random jumping digits on my displays anymore! )

As for the hot air - I'm used to the way it is now. Already done a fair share of Xbox 360 GPUs and RAM chips (putting new solder balls on them) with that station, so I don't need more power. If I really need a lot of power, I pull out my 1400 Watt heat gun.

[Clutchbox]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

you really DONT want a pump in the base, a fan in the hand piece is much better.

Stj; I have a fine working JBC JT7700 hot air station. But unfortunately I found out it has a pump in the base.
Should I just sell the bugger and buy a nice handpiece-fanned hot air station because you say that's better?

[stj]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

i have no idea about jbc.
can you accidentally kink the pipe while working?
that's the big issue with the hakko clones.

[Clutchbox]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

i have no idea about jbc.
can you accidentally kink the pipe while working?

No, it's working fine because it's 'professional quality' (it's the predecessor of the current JBC JT model), I even recently replaced the heater with a original new one from JBC official distributor. The old one was worn and aged but not broken yet. The new hose was with the heater in a complete set delivered from JBC. I have 2 hose's now. Both hose's are not 'kink'ing, as to my understanding is also the case with other quality hot air stations from Weller, Hakko (original!) and the other brandnames.

that's the big issue with the hakko clones.

Yeah, the Hakko fakes, clones and Chinese brands. You simply get what you pay for...
But I would advise everyone who is serious with soldering too look for a second hand 'quality station' above an cheap Chinese or fake (Ebay) Hakko & Hakko clones. At least consider it if you want to buy a decent hot air station for years to come.

[stj]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

that foto looks like some type of reinforced hose - nice.
the clones are just rubber.

[momaka]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

Stj; I have a fine working JBC JT7700 hot air station. But unfortunately I found out it has a pump in the base.
Should I just sell the bugger and buy a nice handpiece-fanned hot air station because you say that's better?

Yes, sell that heap-o-junk right now! Here, let me give you $5 for it, so you don't feel so bad

On a more serious note, I think stj's comment is applicable more or less only for the cheap Chinese stations. Obviously anyone who has heard of JBC or used their stations knows that they are pretty much the "Rolls Royce" of soldering tools . We had one of their soldering stations in the repair shop I used to work at a while back. It was a FINE product, to say the least. We've used it to clean/rework hundreds of Xbox 360 and PS3 boards. It never let us down.

But I would advise everyone who is serious with soldering too look for a second hand 'quality station' above an cheap Chinese or fake (Ebay) Hakko & Hakko clones. At least consider it if you want to buy a decent hot air station for years to come.

I agree.

However, the only possible problem with getting a used good quality station is if you get one that uses parts that are hard to find. And that's what gives these Chinese stations an advantage in that regard - parts are plentiful for them an cheap too.

Of course, it's always better to pay a premium and buy a quality item. Then you will cry only once. Or, you can buy something of cheap quality and cry every time you use it .

[stj]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

maybe the chinese could make an adapter-ring so you can use cheap hakko-clone heads on the jbc handle!

[eccerr0r]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

That may actually be a good reason why the triacs burned, if they simply swapped the 220V plug with a 120V and changed the heating element from 220V to 120V, they forgot one thing: the triac needs to pass double the current to generate the same watts. I would suspect the voltage drop across the triac should be about the same much like diodes (dang, I should verify this myself) but much more current needs to flow.

But this shouldn't affect it when it's turned off, unless it was somehow latent failure? Or was it indeed failure during operation?

[stj]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

they dont turn off, not fully.
when you turn the switch off, the pump keeps running on a timer - so it's a "logical" off, rather than a physical one.

[momaka]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

maybe the chinese could make an adapter-ring so you can use cheap hakko-clone heads on the jbc handle!

Nah, I wouldn't trust a cheapo Chinese station to run a JBC handle/tip for the same reason above: you can still have the station malfunction (like a shorted/stuck TRIAC constantly dumping full power) and kill the JBC handle/tip.

That may actually be a good reason why the triacs burned, if they simply swapped the 220V plug with a 120V and changed the heating element from 220V to 120V, they forgot one thing: the triac needs to pass double the current to generate the same watts.

You know, you may be onto something here. :idea: Perhaps those of us who own one of these stations should open it and check (I will try to do that soon and report back).

On a second thought however, that still doesn't explain why even the 220/230V versions get shorted TRIACs.

But this shouldn't affect it when it's turned off, unless it was somehow latent failure? Or was it indeed failure during operation?

It's failure during operation, IMO. When the X-Tronic hot air station in our shop caught fire (twice), both times it was 5 to 10 minutes after use. However, I can't remember if the station worked okay for a few times after we replace the handle or if it caught on fire right away even with the new handle... which makes me wonder if a shorted TRIAC is the only failure mode or if there are other failure modes of these stations.

they dont turn off, not fully.
when you turn the switch off, the pump keeps running on a timer - so it's a "logical" off, rather than a physical one.

Indeed.
Which means it may also possible for the MCU to bug up and make the TRIAC stuck ON.

[stj]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

Nah, I wouldn't trust a cheapo Chinese station to run a JBC handle/tip for the same reason above

i meant an adapter to fit the metal nozzles, not the entire handle.
an adapter to use them on weller handles would also be a good seller.

[alindumitru46]

Re: Looking to buy my first hot air station.

After a long drought and I return with news about my first hot air station .
11/11/2016 is a famous day of promotions on AliExpress, just like in the last two editions were a terrible fail: shipments delayed for days, exceeding twice the guaranteed delivery time or undelivered products.
I ordered a Youyoue 858D+ but guaranteed delivery deadline was exceeded by 2 times, and arrived after more than 120 days !!
Obviously I asked for refund after 80 days, but eventually arrived although I no longer expected.
The surprises have not stopped, however, because the station came with something extra accessories but probably forgot to put the 5 nozzles !!
So the station is unusable and I have no idea how I have to wait until arriving the 5 nozzles ordered these days.
To be a complete job, then I made another order which had to have 40 Pin Header 2.54mm Right Angle Connector for an miniproject but I received straight connectors, not suitable for my needs .
Even if in the last two months I did not come at home, and all projects started with the help of yours were stuck here, I did not quit, so I hope soon to get rid of this bad luck and finish them.