Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > Troubleshooting Hardware & Devices and Electronics Theory > Troubleshooting Laptops, Portable, and Mobile Devices
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2018, 04:05 AM   #21
dellxps15
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
City & State: Italy
My Country: italy
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

just got another order from goldenchipset. i needed a stencil the most for a notebook with intel n2840 cpu that has cpu nb sb all in one.

after put balls on stencil, i use hot air and balls melted, but noticed something strange.. some balls didnt go down perfectly. i lifted stencil to see what was going on and as my surprice, of all the balls, just 4-5 well ok, but 3-4 balls ripped off pads on bga, and all other balls stayed in the hole of stencil.

now bga is gone and gc want to resent stencil for free, but to use on what bga ?

here is a video that proove that stencil was 100% bad...

stencil is qf9ees.https://youtu.be/8f7FoKBBZdg
dellxps15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 05:16 AM   #22
tomodachi
Badcaps Veteran
 
tomodachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
City & State: Istanbul
My Country: Turkey
Line Voltage: 220
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 347
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
just got another order from goldenchipset. i needed a stencil the most for a notebook with intel n2840 cpu that has cpu nb sb all in one.

after put balls on stencil, i use hot air and balls melted, but noticed something strange.. some balls didnt go down perfectly. i lifted stencil to see what was going on and as my surprice, of all the balls, just 4-5 well ok, but 3-4 balls ripped off pads on bga, and all other balls stayed in the hole of stencil.

now bga is gone and gc want to resent stencil for free, but to use on what bga ?

here is a video that proove that stencil was 100% bad...

stencil is qf9ees.https://youtu.be/8f7FoKBBZdg
New gen cpu stencils are pain in the butt, they don't make them like before, once I ordered a 80x80 SR173 chip stencil from an aliexpress seller, received a 80x80 so-called stencil with a huge hole in the middle lol
they resent me a good one later tho
tomodachi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 03:34 AM   #23
Th3_uN1Qu3
Believe in
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Bucharest
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,359
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Here is some more work done with chips from SEE-IC. These have been done a while ago but hadn't gotten around to posting them.

First up is a HP 625. I replaced the Northbridge chip just to check the quality of the chips that SEE-IC sent me, as I got the "Bulk disassemble" parts. The board originally had a BIOS issue, the northbridge was fine, also there were no signs of reflow on the original chip. I re-used the northbridge I pulled from this one to fix a G62 board, and that worked fine, too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1. clean board.jpg (730.4 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 2. new chip better focus.jpg (493.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 3. new chip balls.jpg (464.9 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 4. finished work.jpg (724.7 KB, 15 views)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
A working TV? How boring!
Th3_uN1Qu3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 03:36 AM   #24
Th3_uN1Qu3
Believe in
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Bucharest
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,359
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

The second one is an ASUS X552CL, nVidia GPU had code 43 in device manager, reflow did not change anything. This chip I bought brand new as it was very cheap. With the new chip everything worked fine, did not even have to reinstall drivers. Have already sold the laptop last month.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1. clean board and new chip.jpg (606.3 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 2. new chip balls.jpg (692.1 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 3. finished work.jpg (599.0 KB, 12 views)
Th3_uN1Qu3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 03:43 AM   #25
Th3_uN1Qu3
Believe in
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Bucharest
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,359
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

And here is a Macbook Pro 2011. Replacement chip sold as "bulk".
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1. original state.jpg (518.0 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 2. clean board.jpg (622.5 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 3. new chip.jpg (410.1 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg 4. new chip balls.jpg (693.5 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 5. new chip soldered.jpg (1.38 MB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 6. booting.jpg (442.5 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 7. testing.jpg (879.8 KB, 11 views)
Th3_uN1Qu3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 03:46 AM   #26
dellxps15
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
City & State: Italy
My Country: italy
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

really good work the unique!!

i have few questions:
i have bought chips from different store.

one chip from goldenchipset: n13p-gt-a2 buy it new for 50 $. notebook give a error on bga, after solder that new one (after reballed ) i got an error 43 if i try to install driver manually from device manager, while if i install from nvidia procedure, it all seems fine except when it get to the end of installation, display freeze. when rebook display become black after the windows loading logo.

second i got a bga refurbished always from goldenchipset, and they told me he already got leaded balls, so used my profile to solder it, but first time it give me a white screen. after a second reflow notebook give me a black screen.

they used different balls (maybe 60-40 instead of 63-37) and i need more heat to solder properly, or bga is defective ?

its an intel n2840 all in one bga (nb sb cpu vga).

there are bga that works just fine after replace , and some others just give me black screen or doesnt work well.

in addition, the stencil goldenchipset sent me was defective and i damaged original bga when reballing. they just sent me a new stencil (1.2$), but my bga was damaged and got this refurbished one for 19 dollars plus 17 for shipping plus paypal commission for a total of 37$ for a non working bga atm....



edit: how do u place bga on non marked pcb like macbooks ?

Last edited by dellxps15; 07-23-2018 at 03:47 AM..
dellxps15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 06:17 AM   #27
Th3_uN1Qu3
Believe in
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Bucharest
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,359
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
really good work the unique!!
Just remembered: I have also undervolted the HP 625, will search thru my notes and skype for the resistor value, i was able to lower the core voltage of the NB to 0.93V (IIRC) maintaining perfect stability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
n13p-gt-a2 buy it new for 50 $. notebook give a error on bga, after solder that new one (after reballed ) i got an error 43 if i try to install driver manually from device manager, while if i install from nvidia procedure, it all seems fine except when it get to the end of installation, display freeze. when rebook display become black after the windows loading logo.
You got sent a damaged chip.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
second i got a bga refurbished always from goldenchipset, and they told me he already got leaded balls, so used my profile to solder it, but first time it give me a white screen. after a second reflow notebook give me a black screen.

they used different balls (maybe 60-40 instead of 63-37) and i need more heat to solder properly, or bga is defective ?
BGA is definitely defective at this point. 60/40 and 63/37 are not too different in melting point, it should have soldered fine. But you might have been sent a lead-free chip, most of the refurbished chips I have bought used lead-free solder, likely so unscrupulous sellers can pass them for new ones.

Easy way to figure out the solder type is to shine a bright light onto the balls, lead-free has a matte texture while leaded solder will be shiny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
in addition, the stencil goldenchipset sent me was defective and i damaged original bga when reballing. they just sent me a new stencil (1.2$), but my bga was damaged and got this refurbished one for 19 dollars plus 17 for shipping plus paypal commission for a total of 37$ for a non working bga atm....
Ouch, that sucks. I have read some negative reports about goldenchipset but none that bad... I've had a $200+ order sitting in my cart for a few months now, guess i'll take my business elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
edit: how do u place bga on non marked pcb like macbooks ?
I take several "before" photos, to have a reference. I compare the chip's distance to the parts around it to what I see in the photo. I also use a flashlight and shine it from the sides to see if there are pads sticking out. And, you're going to laugh here. On this one, what gave me 100% confidence of a good alignment were the scratches that i had made with my tweezers while removing the epoxy in the corners of the BGA. They were so accurate that i'm thinking of intentionally making the scratches next time, so they are more clear.
Th3_uN1Qu3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 11:30 AM   #28
RJARRRPCGP
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
City & State: North Springfield, Vermont
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 123-127V 61.5-63.5 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,503
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
something strange on that chip new from golden chipset.. soldered and working but how could that mistake be possible
That screams a scam artist!
__________________
Asus P6T Deluxe

Core i7 Extreme "Bloomfield" 965

PNY GeForce GTX 960

Windows 7 SP1

SoundBlaster ZXR

Corsair TX850M PSU


"There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

"Don't eat yellow snow!" -Salem

"did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747
RJARRRPCGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 03:26 PM   #29
dellxps15
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
City & State: Italy
My Country: italy
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post
Just remembered: I have also undervolted the HP 625, will search thru my notes and skype for the resistor value, i was able to lower the core voltage of the NB to 0.93V (IIRC) maintaining perfect stability.



You got sent a damaged chip.




BGA is definitely defective at this point. 60/40 and 63/37 are not too different in melting point, it should have soldered fine. But you might have been sent a lead-free chip, most of the refurbished chips I have bought used lead-free solder, likely so unscrupulous sellers can pass them for new ones.

Easy way to figure out the solder type is to shine a bright light onto the balls, lead-free has a matte texture while leaded solder will be shiny.



Ouch, that sucks. I have read some negative reports about goldenchipset but none that bad... I've had a $200+ order sitting in my cart for a few months now, guess i'll take my business elsewhere.



I take several "before" photos, to have a reference. I compare the chip's distance to the parts around it to what I see in the photo. I also use a flashlight and shine it from the sides to see if there are pads sticking out. And, you're going to laugh here. On this one, what gave me 100% confidence of a good alignment were the scratches that i had made with my tweezers while removing the epoxy in the corners of the BGA. They were so accurate that i'm thinking of intentionally making the scratches next time, so they are more clear.
i think about that too, but scratch pcb with tweezer can damage tracks...


about the refurbished bga, they told me it got leaded balls. generally i solder leaded bga with a temperature setpoint of 200° and watching the bga, it start getting down at about 193° so i set temperature to shut off bga machine at 200°.
on that bga i did same profile, and bga dont move so it must be soldered....if it was a lead free, it should have not melted the balls and bga should not have attached to pcb right ?
dellxps15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2018, 12:56 AM   #30
Th3_uN1Qu3
Believe in
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Bucharest
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,359
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

If it were lead free, it may have melted a little bit but it definitely would not have attached to the board properly. If it sat down on the board at 193C then it was leaded solder, indeed.
Th3_uN1Qu3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2018, 04:07 AM   #31
piernov
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
City & State: Valbonne, 06
My Country: France
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 992
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Still worrying that goldenchipset has a 99.0% positive feedback on eBay and 99.2% on Aliexpress. Oh well…

Btw I just received an EC chip (Nuvoton NPCE285GA0DX) from see-ic sold as new when it is obviously used. The leads weren't even cleaned properly (solder bridges) and one on the edge was bent.
Cleaned it up, straightened the pin and thankfully it works and the laptop is fixed. Worrying too that this was sold as new and not used or refurbished (well… wasn't even refurbished properly).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-NPCE285...C/173364743798
__________________
OpenBoardview — http://openboardview.org | IRC — #openboardview@irc.freenode.net
piernov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2018, 08:00 AM   #32
Th3_uN1Qu3
Believe in
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Bucharest
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,359
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

You should contact SEE directly and tell them about it, maybe they got some bad stock. I have had zero issues with them so far.
Th3_uN1Qu3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 03:21 PM   #33
makisdal
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
City & State: thessaloniki
My Country: GREECE
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Hello,
I used to order chips from SEE IC and always worked fine...Last time i ordered two northbrige chips, 216 0752001, both chips were short circuit. I did not change nothing as lon as the temperature and soldering procedure... Do you know something about this? Does this happend to any other guy? Thanks in advance
makisdal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2018, 01:22 AM   #34
piernov
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
City & State: Valbonne, 06
My Country: France
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 992
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Ordered a couple, will receive them in coming weeks. I'll report here if I don't forget.
I had one from a Spanish seller that was short.
piernov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2018, 06:03 AM   #35
piernov
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
City & State: Valbonne, 06
My Country: France
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 992
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Ok so here we have a bunch of chips from see-ic.
The G84-603-A2 are crap. Black underfill, laser etched part number and they didn't work. Chime loop and no video on MBP 17" 2007/15" 2008
The 216-0752001 is good, HP 6545b back up and running fine.
The 216-0674026 is not shorted but the motherboard doesn't turn on. Maybe something else is wrong.

I didn't try the other but here are my observations: G86-770-A2 has white underfill, seems like an original new chip.
The NF-G6150-N-A2 are datecode 2009 but they have black underfill. Dunno if NVidia still produced those in 2009 with the bad underfill though (not the case for the G84 and G86 for sure).
The MCP67M-A2 doesn't have a fixed revision AFAIK, so black underfill is normal. Let's hope this is a new chip anyway and it will last at least a few years…

216-0809000 was a "refurbished" datecode 2017. Dunno if it's any good, probably not. Tried a 216-0809000 datecode 1607 from goldenchipset and it was crap (no internal display, garbage on external VGA). My stencil from oycc-ic is garbage and I've a hard time reballing those so I'm gonna order another one first.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20180925_202915.jpg (510.1 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180925_202849.jpg (557.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180922_101952.jpg (421.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180922_101857.jpg (424.5 KB, 11 views)
piernov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 01:13 PM   #36
jasko_jacker
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
City & State: roma
My Country: italy
Line Voltage: 220 V
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 508
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Over the years, I bought some bga chips and I was not satisfied.
I understood, by doing research, that there are no more honest sellers than others.
This because there are no low cost and fast methods to test this type of chip. I prefer to buy non-working motherboards, even if I do not need them, to have a stock of the main chips, especially cpu.
I can do this because I have a small business.
A friend of mine, who works very high quantities; uses very expensive sockets to test the chips before welding.
"If I have to buy bga chips, I ask these questions first to see if they are really new:
If I buy more than one bga of the same type, is it possible to have them in the original package without dividing them? have the same datacode and progressive serial number?
Is there a possibility to change them if they have not been soldered ? "
In most cases, sellers are not able to provide chips under these conditions.
I tried to buy in other countries, Spain, UK, but all the chips come from China and that is the reference market.
However, I don't immediately solder the bga, I first inspect them under a microscope to see if there are signs of reworking and with a multimeter I check the main signals, if I detect a strage value or a short I ask for a refund that usually the seller accepts.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg +V1.05S_PCH_VCC.JPG (275.5 KB, 14 views)
jasko_jacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 07:22 AM   #37
piernov
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
City & State: Valbonne, 06
My Country: France
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 992
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

Unfortunately for GPU you don't have this possibility. When you get a failed NVidia or AMD GPU, it has been properly cleaned and reballed and remarked (with newer datecodes for example). They very rarely fail short, and they often resurrect for a small amount of time when heated a lot. So you get a chip that you think is new, but it's an old failed reballed chip. You solder it on, it works for a couple of weeks then fail again.
Only way to not get scammed is to know the signs of "refurbished" chips, but sometimes they are very hard to detect, and buy from a trusted seller (well… none of them are). When inspecting under microscope, if you see some marks especially scratches around capacitors (seller probing them to find shorts, because they know people will check and fill a claim), or if the substrate color is off, or if the balls are not consistent, markings on the die not looking new, different datecodes in the same spool, etc… you know that it's a bad chip. But even then some are very well done.
piernov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 09:51 AM   #38
Chuper
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
City & State: Dauphin, Manitoba
My Country: Canada
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 16
Default Re: Let's talk about BGA Chip suppliers

I thought I would ask. If not allowed please ignore/delete. I am looking for a stencil for a Panasonic MN2WS0270PB to reball or a same chip to buy if re-balling would not help. So far no luck on eBay or aliexpress. Would someone know of different sources? Thanks.
Chuper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums © 2003 - 2019
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:30 PM.
Did you find this forum helpful?