Viewsonic VE710b

[mockingbird]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

Ok, here you go:


W = White
P = Pink

Keep in mind though our PCBs are not the same.

[junktv]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

One slight problem. Mine are pink/white and the other plug are blue/black on the top 2x 2 pin plugs and same for the bottom. I found another pic but that one uses a 4 pin header. Guess i'll keep looking. I can't believe i did that.

[mockingbird]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

Do what Seanc said. At least I think we've established that the pink/white goes to the logic board connector side and the blue/black goes to the power cable connector side.

Yea, mine has the 4 pin header.

[smason]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

The solder isn't plumbing solder, just the flux. The solder came with the "Cold Heat" device and is meant for electronics or jewlery. Probably 60/40 or better.

WTF? Seriously? If it's real plumbing flux, that's pretty acidic, it may rot the traces away.

[mockingbird]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

Yea, it's Kester SP-30 that come in those round tins. I have an old tin from 30 years ago and a full unused tin I found in the trash a few months ago. The stuff works great. I only see some discoloration on the bottom of an asus motherboard I am recapping. But that's because I had to use a boatload of the stuff to try to get a coil back in I foolishly removed.

Note: The SP-30 inorganic acid flux paste is NOT for use in electrical or electronic applications due to its corrosive properties.

ORLY??? Also if you use the stuff, you can use a 25-30 watt soldering iron for multi-layer PCBs instead of expensive 60 watt stations. My soldering iron is also from the trash, and I'm ordering some new thread-in tips for it.

[junktv]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

Still haven't plugged it in but it seems with way the plugs on the side fall it would have blue/black closest to the top corner. Does this look right? Would hate to release smoke because i was dumb and forgot to mark them in the first place.

The 4th (side) pic is labeled with how i think they go.

[mockingbird]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

I still see bulged caps in your first picture. I hope that photo is a pre-cap. The way you have it in looks correct. What did you recap with? I hope you looked up the spec sheets for the "EB" and "PF" caps before you got the replacements. Also check your ceramic littlefuse if it's good. I changed mine eventhough I'm pretty sure the old one was ok. It only added a few cents to the order.

[junktv]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

Ya that is an old pic i didn't take one of the part side after. No i didn't i guess i should. I used rubycon mcz for the 1500uf/16v and 3 470uf/16v and zl for the 470uf/25v and zlk for the 1000uf/10v. The rest i left in. The fuse didn't look burned so i figured it was good. Plus the monitor kinda worked when i took it apart.

[mockingbird]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

Umm, you picked the wrong caps.

Rubycon MCZ is definitely not suitable for this application. MCZ is for ultra-low ESR motherboard VRM applications. List me the old cap series and I'll point you in the right direction. My monitor's been fine for several days now. Good picture too for a panel that's not one of the big names.

[junktv]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

All were EB elites and 105C that i took out. I can't find the 470uf 25v data though. The data sheet also says "Extremely low impedance downsize and high ripple current.Suitable for main board."

470uf 16v 8x12mm
1500uf 16v 13x17mm
470uf 25v 10x12mm
1000uf 10v 8x15mm

I thought it was good to have a higher ripple and lower number on esr?

[junktv]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

I guess the spacing would help.
470uf 16v 8x12mm 3.5mm
1500uf 16v 13x17mm 5mm
470uf 25v 10x12mm 5mm
1000uf 10v 8x15mm 3.5

So what happens if the wrong series are used? Do they just go bad faster or do damage other components?
I used some elgen caps of unknown specs that i found locally at a tv shop in my tv and they have been working for a week. I do plan on replacing them soon but the places that carry them sell some other things i need and shipping is high so i'm trying to do it all at one time.

The ripple rating is how much the can buffer isn't it? I remember reading about PC PSU's and kept hearing some had high ripple While the ones with better components and japanese caps had lower when checked.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

I thought it was good to have a higher ripple and lower number on esr?

It is but don't go psycho on lowering ESR.
-Sometimes- ESR can be too low.
.
The EB Series is rated roughly equivalent to Rubycon MBZ Series.
- Crap brands don't always have crap specs too.
- You should use MBZ or better here.
Rubycon MBZ, MCZ // Panasonic FJ, FL // Sanyo[Suncon] WG // NCC NRSK // Samxon GD, GC // Nichicon HM, HN [with date code 2005 or newer]
Panasonic FM that are longer [physically larger] than the original caps might get 'get you there' for the specs in some cases.

So what happens if the wrong series are used? Do they just go bad faster or do damage other components?

Either or both.

"Extremely low impedance"

There are no standard definitions for terms like "Extremely Low", "Extra Low", "Very Low", or even just "Low" so those terms only mean what the manufacturer wants them to mean. [That day. .]

All were EB elites and 105C that i took out. I can't find the 470uf 25v data though.

Probably a custom order cap. [Not super uncommon.]
When you can't find one use the data from the nearest one in the table with the same can size. ESR and Ripple follow [are related to] the can size and not uF or volts.
- Nearest 10x12mm shows 1540 mA and .026 ohms.
[Same as MBZ for the can size but MBZ doesn't go to 25v.]
A good replacement might be the Panasonic FM in 10x16mm.
It is rated for 1790 mA at .026 ohms.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...name=P12388-ND
.

[junktv]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

It is but don't go psycho on lowering ESR.
-Sometimes- ESR can be too low.
.
The EB Series is rated roughly equivalent to Rubycon MBZ Series.
- Crap brands don't always have crap specs too.
- You should use MBZ or better here.
Rubycon MBZ, MCZ // Panasonic FJ, FL // Sanyo[Suncon] WG // NCC NRSK // Samxon GD, GC // Nichicon HM, HN [with date code 2005 or newer]
Panasonic FM that are longer [physically larger] than the original caps might get 'get you there' for the specs in some cases.

So the ones i used MCZ on are fine then? If so I do have an extra 1000uf 10v i could add. Not sure why i didn't use it.
After looking the MBZ are the exact specs. So how much can you lower the ohms without it being to much? Can you raise them at all?

Probably a custom order cap. [Not super uncommon.]
When you can't find one use the data from the nearest one in the table with the same can size. ESR and Ripple follow [are related to] the can size and not uF or volts.
- Nearest 10x12mm shows 1540 mA and .026 ohms.
[Same as MBZ for the can size but MBZ doesn't go to 25v.]
A good replacement might be the Panasonic FM in 10x16mm.
It is rated for 1790 mA at .026 ohms.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...name=P12388-ND
.

Added it to my list.

[mockingbird]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

The EB Series is rated roughly equivalent to Rubycon MBZ Series.

Really? I used Panasonic FR, and FM to match the EB. Let me double check to reference. Junktv, I had the same values as you, here's what I used:

470uf 16v 8x12mm - http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/pro...sp?sku=04M9020
1500uf 16v 13x17mm - http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/pro...sp?sku=74R3417
470uf 25v 10x12mm - http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/pro...sp?sku=04M9020
1000uf 10v 8x15mm - http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/pro...sp?sku=04M9010

[junktv]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

Ya check em out. Exact on these minus the 470uf/25v not listed. The panasonics seem to be higher ohm slightly.

[mockingbird]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

It doesn't make sense. I always thought MBZ was on par with HM, and HM was on par with Panasonic FJ/FL not FM/FR...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

So the ones i used MCZ on are fine then?

Yes

So how much can you lower the ohms without it being to much?

I'm -guessing- lowering by roughly 1/2 is most always okay.
Depends on the circuit really and I'm too lazy to do the math so I'm conservative when I change values.
The value for ESR of the cap is chosen to optimize filtering out the expected Ripple frequency. The cap is not the whole filter. It works with other components [in some circuits an actual inductor] and the values are chosen to 'tune' it to filter out the expected Ripple frequency. If you change one value you can 'de-tune' the filter which results in less filtering of said frequency. That said, these filters are usually wide band meaning they handle a range of frequencies vice a spot-on number, which means there is some wiggle room.
[Different problem] If MOSFETs are involved there is also a condition called 'ringing' that can occur when ESR it too low. I'll let you google the details but basically ringing is oscillations that occur when the MOSFETs switch. [Bear in mind ringing is not common but it does happen.] A real bad case of ringing will actually cause the MOSFETs to vibrate and make noise. That is called 'singing' MOSFETs.

Can you raise them at all?

I don't raise ESR unless there is absolutely no way around it.
One: It means more noise [ripple] is left in the circuit.
Two: A cap with a higher ESR almost always has a lower Ripple Rating. The Ripple Rating is how much Ripple the cap can pass through itself without overheating internally. Lowering the Ripple is somewhat like using a smaller diameter wire when replacing wires. It -might- be okay but it might overheat and fail.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

It doesn't make sense. I always thought MBZ was on par with HM, and HM was on par with Panasonic FJ/FL not FM/FR...

FJ 8mm are between MBZ and MCZ, but closer to MBZ
FJ 10mm match MBZ
.
FM is lower grade than MBZ.
.
Grade comparisons assume the same can size. [Only sensible way to do it.]
But a big can cap from a lower grade can easily have better specs than a small can cap of a higher grade.
.

[junktv]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

Hey guys just want to say thanks for the help and helping me understand this stuff.

I have one more question though. Is it normal for small caps to not show the ohms?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Viewsonic VE710b

Yes that's normal but it's not that they are small.
The PF Series is a GP cap. [General Purpose.]
GP caps are not suitable to use where ESR matters so they don't show the ESR in the data sheets.
[Probably used for signal coupling or as part of setting a Bias and not as a filter.]

I usually replace them with 'entry level' Low ESR caps like Panasonic FC or KG, Nichicon PW or PM, Chemicon LXV, LXY or LXZ just because they are high quality caps and I usually have something or other along those lines in stock.
If one of those doesn't work out [size] I usually use Nichicon VZ series which is a decent [and cheap ] GP cap.
.