HiSense 65H6510G no boot

[lotas]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

You just need to find Rx, Tx, GND, 3.3v on the board, you don’t need them on the uart-usb adapter itself (you just need the signal lines to be at 3.3v). Connection is like this:
Rx - Tx
Tx - Rx
GND-GND.

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

yes they both will work fine with speed setting 115200 only TX and RX GND connect and use Putty... when you plug the tv In power keep pressing inter on PC until you see MSD XXX# xxx depend on soc No.

if you get this just send "" mmc part "" with out ""
if the emmc / nand in tact will report all partition

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

You just need to find Rx, Tx, GND, 3.3v on the board, you don't need them on the uart-usb adapter itself (you just need the signal lines to be at 3.3v). Connection is like this:
Rx - Tx
Tx - Rx
GND-GND.

yes they both will work fine with speed setting 115200 only TX and RX GND connect and use Putty... when you plug the tv In power keep pressing inter on PC until you see MSD XXX# xxx depend on soc No.

if you get this just send "" mmc part "" with out ""
if the emmc / nand in tact will report all partition

Thanks! Will gather HW/SW parts and report back... Lets see if HiSense will handout bootloader + flashing software haha.

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Still waiting on the USB<->UART dongle and will provide update after.

Debugged the main-tcon board power rails. CPU is either dead or lost with corrupted firmware/bootcode.

Standby Light off

Standby light circuit gets 3.3v signal from CPU but signal is active low. Therefore, Standby light stays off. CPU never turns it on. When first plug in AC, likely flashed as 5V rail was stable before CPU voltage so circuit momentarily had 0v until SOC powered up enough to assert its active low signals to 3.3v (probably GPIOs) Standby light circuit attached (Same as 2018 main board service manual in post #1 but all NC component removed which was also NC on my board)



LCD PMIC

This region was dead without voltage. Traced circuit to how to turn on (CPU suppose to turn it on) Manually jumped the trigger to turn on and all LCD PMIC voltages are valid (VGH, VGL etc)



Other Power Rails Powered Up

2x 1v SOC rails. 2018 board with same SOC shows 1A rail for CPU power. 4A rail for CPU core (probably means SOC core like GPU or video with 3.5A!), Core's DDR and HDMI digital logic) A bunch of caps on these rails does show ~200ohm to ground but they don't heat up (SOC does since nearby) and DC voltages are all correct without any AC component (all stable). Probably correct?
eMMC 1.8v 3.3v
DDR3 1.5v
SOC 1v
5v and 3.3v throughout the board
12v from PSU obviously to generate all above voltages.

====

Anyway, since SOC's CPU never turns on standby light and LCD PMIC section, its likely CPU is dead or lost due to corrupted boot code. Unfortunately, these HiSense main boards are basically unavailable and ~$100+ when it is so I'll keep going to see if can revive it. But it doesn't look good. HiSense support currently seems broken even on providing USB firmware upgrades much less bootcode +flash tools. Probably need to extra firmware from good TV in case of corrupt firmware revivals.

Will report back after USB<->UART dongle arrival.

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

can you show me the IR section & the LED indicator build on it... Hisense as i know there are 2 one Red and other blue LED or one RGB. be sure they are fine and not shorted to kill the 3.3 rail..

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

can you show me the IR section & the LED indicator build on it... Hisense as i know there are 2 one Red and other blue LED or one RGB. be sure they are fine and not shorted to kill the 3.3 rail..

Thanks, here are the checks

LED circuit

• There are 2 LEDs (Red, Blue) in a single LED package. Both LEDs light up in diode mode with probe on LED anode/cathode
  
• Blue LED cathode is NC (Not Connected) anode connected to ground (I guess doesn't matter if cathode is NC?) Since both LED is in single package, blue LED is present because in same package but unconnected.
  
• Red LED light up in diode mode probing from disconnected XP4 (pin2 GND, pin3 LED1). XP4 is small IR/LED/KEY board connector to main board.
  
• Red LED doesn't light up in diode mode when XP4 is connected. Presumably main board LED1 circuit drained the + probe from multimeter in diode mode?

Power Button

• line to SOC reads 3.3v when power button not pressed. Reads 0v when pressed.

Board pics



Seems both circuits are behaving correctly...

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

questioners.
1- when you test it the R & B LED and they light on with diode mode... when you change the probe in opposite way. did you have any read value on yours DMM?

2 did the 5 STBY drop down while 3.3V failed ?

in normal operation. when we press power the R LED will blink once then B then R then B then R them B remain on. so you wrote before the R LED will blink once and went out correct ?

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

questioners.
1- when you test it the R & B LED and they light on with diode mode... when you change the probe in opposite way. did you have any read value on yours DMM?

2 did the 5 STBY drop down while 3.3V failed ?

in normal operation. when we press power the R LED will blink once then B then R then B then R them B remain on. so you wrote before the R LED will blink once and went out correct ?

Thanks for the suggestion. Here are the answers and also update after UART output

• Red and Blue LED both reads OL on DMM in reverse polarity.
  
• 3.3V STBY didn't drop. It stays 3.3V at the voltage regulator. Only 3.3V signal to the SOC drops to 0v when I press power button.
  
• On this board, I'm not sure how blue LED can light up since its cathode is not connected to anything (I will check more carefully to confirm)

=====

Now for the UART output.

Building UART to 3.5mm service port cable

Leaving notes here for others in the future.

Here is a diagram. No need to use DB9 connector if you have common cheap USB<->UART dongle (must be <= 3.3v, mine was 2.5v on TX/RX)

Sleeve = Ground, Ring = TX, Tip = RX
Set to 115200 baud per post #22. 8 bit data, stop bit 1, parity none, handshake none.
Need to push the 3.5mm jack in firmly until it clicks. Had mine loose for awhile and was getting mixed garbage.

I used terminal ( link ) Couldn't get putty to work.



UART output

UART shows BIST ok (Built-In Self Test) Repeated eMMC CMD2 error and then reboots and repeat.

----

AC_ON
MIU0_DQS-OK
BIST0-OK
02-2L-SM-01-20180913
eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027UART_115200

AC_ON
MIU0_DQS-OK
BIST0-OK
02-2L-SM-01-20180913
eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027UART_115200

AC_ON
MIU0_DQS-OK
BIST0-OK
02-2L-SM-01-20180913
eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027eMMC Err:CMD0002 0027UART_115200

----

eMMC is Hynix H26M41204HPR running eMMC 5.1 spec ( link )
eMMC 5.1 spec uses JESD84-B51A boot mode (an old JEDEC spec so basically backward compatible) boot mode spec indicate CMD2 is basically "Request eMMC chip for Chip ID" and UART log shows repeated failure and reboots.

So basically can't get any data out of eMMC. Will debug around this area to see if can find any failure cause. boot code spec does show CMD0 and CMD1 is executed before CMD2 in A.6.1 Low-voltage power-up. Also CMD1 returns data so the basic eMMC command and data IO bus maybe working. Seems like something happened to the eMMC.

[lotas]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

eMMC is dead.

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

eMMC is dead.

Yeah, could very well be the case. Curious what is killing these? Sounds not so uncommon.

I have a Tesla Model S, entertainment system software engineers killed the eMMC by dumping massive log into eMMC. Killed it in about 3-6 years. Was a 8GB (64Gb) eMMC so couldn't handle the massive amount of writes with wear leveling. This HiSense is also smallish 64Gb eMMC. If HiSense firmware engineers constantly use eMMC massively, firmware will gradually get unstable and eventually prevent boot.

if eMMC is dead, then the only solution is desolder, resolder and flash firmware by computer. Probably not worth the trouble/cost for DIYers and professionals.

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

well for me its early to judge eMMC dead.
if. Soc ----- eMMC connection failed = eMMC error
if Soc----RAM connection failed = eMMC error too.

i would suggest to use other Software.. this Terminal its sound for me a copy of the Teraterm. so try with it. and MOST important you need to send break command as soon TV powered on to check its response to command or not. let see how come the output

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

well for me its early to judge eMMC dead.
if. Soc ----- eMMC connection failed = eMMC error
if Soc----RAM connection failed = eMMC error too.

i would suggest to use other Software.. this Terminal its sound for me a copy of the Teraterm. so try with it. and MOST important you need to send break command as soon TV powered on to check its response to command or not. let see how come the output

Yes, still motivated to chase the problem but probably wish I had a high speed logic analyzer now

Can't Get Command Line Prompt

used your attached teraterm-4.78. Got same output but unable to get a command prompt. Tried many "enter" key, break (Alt-B), Ctrl-C and many random keys from TV turns on through eMMC command error and reboots. Nothing worked. Perhaps the CPU hasn't booted far enough?


Tested dongle/cable for transmission

Tested my USB serial dongle and cable. Dongle can jumper TX/RX for loop back testing. 3.5mm jack tip/ring has continuity to USB serial dongle RX/TX. Pressing return/keyboard will flash dongle LED. Alt-B will see 0V momentarily on ring section of 3.5mm barrel. But don't have any other devices with 3.5mm serial ports to 100% prove working.

Double Checking Power Tree

Checked all power tree rails and all are present. This board's power tree is nearly identical to 2018 service manual schematic in post #1. Only difference is the 2nd 1V rail to power SOC's non CPU digital logic and DDR core. All inductor and Regulator labels/numbers are identical.

12VS (from PSU obviously has to be present for the rest)

• 3.3V_NORMAL
• 3.3V_STANDBY
• 5V_NORMAL
• 5V_STANDBY

SOC + RAM

• 0.95V_VDDC_CPU (powers the CPU)
• 0.95V_VDDC (power other SOC logic, DDR RAM core)
• 1.5V_DDR (DDR voltage)
• 1.2V_MOD_VTERM (goes to SOC, don't know what this is)

EMMC

• 1.8V_NORMAL
• EMMC_VIO (EMMC IO voltage = 1.8V)
• 3.3V_EMMC (NAND Flash core voltage)

MISC

• 5V_USB
• LCD PMIC didn't not turn on (Require CPU code to trigger, manually triggered on but no benefit since CPU can not continue to boot without bootcode from eMMC)

Pic attached with all power rails labeled.


DMM Measurements near EMMC

• No shorts, All resistors match schematic (2018 schematic in post #1 is identical to this board)
• eMMC CMD line 1.6V DC 0.46V AC so there is some activity and seem to be in correct voltage range.
• eMMC CLK line 0.9V DC 0.8V AC. Seems reasonable?
• eMMC Data0-7 line. All 1.8V DC 0V AC. eMMC datasheet claims all data lines are pulled low by eMMC internal circuit. Don't know if SOC is pulling them high. Only 0 ohm resistor between eMMC and SOC on all 8 data lines.

~200ohm Capacitors

There are capacitors that measures 200ohm across on both 1V rail to the SOC. Since present on both 1V rails, maybe this is normal?

eMMC Command Error

Don't really understand the UARTs eMMC error message. eMMC commands are 6 bits and arguments are 32bits. UART log is XXXX XXXX.

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

0.95V_VDDC_CPU are low... since the GPU section of SOC 1.2V_MOD_VTERM in this high present.

as you mentioned CPU had no post at all... this why break didn't work. but to let us be sure more to check eMMC.. need to freeze it ( real freezing ) then read the log if the error remain.. i will tell emmc are just victim to being dead caused by Soc. LOL

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

0.95V_VDDC_CPU are low... since the GPU section of SOC 1.2V_MOD_VTERM in this high present.

Actually measured is ~1V but basically same as 0.95V.

According the 2018 service manual power tree for this exact same SOC

0.95V_VDDC = 4A (digital core = 3.5A, this is probably GPU+Video+TCon pixel?)
0.95V_VDDC_CPU = 1A (This is probably CPU core)
1.2V_MOD_VTERM = 100mA (seems like its not GPU?)

as you mentioned CPU had no post at all... this why break didn't work. but to let us be sure more to check eMMC.. need to freeze it ( real freezing ) then read the log if the error remain.. i will tell emmc are just victim to being dead caused by Soc. LOL

You mean to freeze by temperature like placing in refrigerator? i have only heard of freeze HDD but not NAND flash (googled and didn't find much)

[lotas]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

You mean to freeze by temperature like placing in refrigerator? i have only heard of freeze HDD but not NAND flash (googled and didn't find much)

The refrigerator will not help here, here you need the Freezer Cooler Spray, sometimes it helps to merge the boot with the programmer.

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

The refrigerator will not help here, here you need the Freezer Cooler Spray, sometimes it helps to merge the boot with the programmer.

exact... we are not going to make ICE Cream lol... Freezer Cooler Spray... and some user from UK with out writing names over this forum they used Gas lighter to spray the chip lol... it will freeze but with risk of fire if you are smoker lol

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

The refrigerator will not help here, here you need the Freezer Cooler Spray, sometimes it helps to merge the boot with the programmer.

exact... we are not going to make ICE Cream lol... Freezer Cooler Spray... and some user from UK with out writing names over this forum they used Gas lighter to spray the chip lol... it will freeze but with risk of fire if you are smoker lol

Ok I understand. Freeze spray... need to find some

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Additional investigation. All signs point to dead eMMC.

• Probing and checking voltages and resistor values around eMMC basically all match Hynix datasheet spec. Board design engineer followed Hynix datasheet suggestions for various requirements like resistor/capacitor values in the eMMC's bus load and connection guide.
  
• Post #33 said all 8 data pins measure 1.8v and should be pulled low according to Hynix datasheet. This is wrong. Datasheet said pulled high (it was the data strobe line that is pulled low) So 1.8v measurement match Hynix datasheet.
  
• Everything around eMMC appears to be normal but seems it doesn't connect.

google found 2 identical problems. One TV repair guy with the same UART EMMC error codes. Removed EMMC and used RT809H NAND flash/EMMC programmer to read but failed.

https://kenotrontv.ru/topic/10105-ya...&comment=64484
http://www.ma163.com/article/view_15984.html

All just ~3 year old TVs based on MSTAR SOC running Android.

eMMC part is $5 on AliExpress (have professional hot air station) Found some older MSTAR mboot software sources. Anyone know if possible to replace eMMC + flash in mboot followed by USB firmware installation? I guess basically follow the steps of TV manufacturer to load software.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/t...#post-84116077

=====

Another unlikely option for repair is using other HiSense main boards. HiSense's 2021 65" Roku TV main board is plenty available at <= $20 (same SOC, PSU, speaker, IR board interface all look similiar/same?) However, I guess with t-con integration. Its unlikely to work as LCD panels are surely changed frequently by supplier and continuous cost cutting efforts for these low end priced TVs.

=====

Finally, I wonder what is killing these eMMCs? Found this tweet that may offer some clue

https://publish.twitter.com/?query=h...8&widget=Tweet

eMMC programming is not trivial. There are multiple partitions, secure access features and have evolved for probably 2 decades now with a thick access protocol spec. Its not a simple NAND flash block.

If these low cost TV's software is truly maintained by Google's Reference Plus Program (issue updates) who surely don't provide much testing effort for a huge list of cheap TVs. Cheap TV manufacturers performing minimum upgrade testing (or non at all! judging by HiSense's terrible support/access to user upgradeable USB firmware) has the potential for massive software failure rates that we are seeing. Seems all the HiSense Android TV main boards are in very short supply. Many must be dying.

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

lets us do it simple ... who are responsible to UART Port and allowed to communicated to other parts ? its the Soc.

who receive the break command and stop TV going forward to complete booting ??? its the Soc

where are the eMMC data IO connected ?? its to the Soc.

One things important. on philips Android TV with same Soc ..we do have here many threat dealt with... Soc BGA caused dead /reboot. what we do know where are the BGA points.. what if this BGA was on of eMMC IO data rail !!!!?

as the PWB always high to make warm start ( Android ) mean the Soc are always under currents stress even if its at STBY mode.

just out the topic .. not all on the net are correct neither other issue to be general to other.
i still believe eMMC not dead. unless rework BGA of the Soc

[nomoresonys]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Worth a shot to replace it tho, if properly equipped to program it and the chip is 5 bucks.