Building a gaming rig for my dad...

[Uranium-235]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

Get him something new. High quality medium PSU. 1050 is even fine. I've seen those cases before...at goodwill over a decade ago. Still should 'work'

[ratdude747]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

I think y'all missed an important detail:

The rig is being built for my father. The 2nd junk case was given to me by my father in-law thinking it might be "useful" for the former's build that I offhandedly mentioned while visiting this weekend. It's a flimsy POS, roughly on par (if not worse) than the 1st case. Makes my skin crawl

The geforce 730 was an attempt to get something that would have a working windows 10 driver, which the onboard 965 GPU does not. Seems half-height GPUs went the way of the dodo on a lot of newer stuff due to onboard GPUs becoming decent.

[momaka]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

We tried that... Core2 Dell Optiplex 760 with a Geforce 730 GPU and 8GB of RAM. Didn't work worth a ****... Sometimes would work, but usually was too anemic to get anywhere. Running Windows 10 (required for both games so ANT+ works correctly). To be honest I suspect the HDD was the main issue (7200RPM spinner, of course), but as "antiquated" as the system is, I figured something newer would work better and provide better futureproofing (also, he personally requested a "newer" build).

If the CPU of that system was somewhat above the minimum spec of the games, then I strongly suspect that GeForce 730 was the reason why they ran bad. In fact, even in much older games, that 730 won't do 1080p well at all. Even 720p is going to be a choppy struggle likely. Start with something like a GTS 450 pr GTX 550 minimum. A GTX460/560 should do the trick if DX12 is not required. On the AMD-equivalent(ish) side, HD5770 or HD6850 should be your minimum goal (again, if DX12 is not required.) For smoother 1080p (in older games), you need to move up to HD7850/7870 or even 7950/7970... or GTX760/770/780 territory. Only issue is, if you don't have a spare of these cards right now, even the GTX460/560 are selling for a bit more than they normally go for, thanks to the silly Cryptomining boom going nuts again.

As for the 7200 RPM HDD - that's not the issue for the slow game performance at all. Only thing that HDD would do is you'll probably get very slow loading times with Win10, if it's a slower/older drive with lower capacity and cache. Otherwise, at least from my own personal experiments, I haven't noticed any difference in games between SSD and regular rust-spinner, other than map/level loading times being slower on the latter, obviously.

Those aside, I do agree with your hunch to go with something a bit newer.
Hex-core 1366 Xeon Westmere should do nicely indeed. If not, and you don't want to spend too much, see if there are any cheap Optiplex 790 or 3010's in your area - i.e. something with at least a 2nd gen i5 or i7. The i5 in your dad's laptop may be newer, but it's still a dual-core CPU (with HT.) 2nd gen i5 for the desktop (or better yet, i7) is about as low as you want to go these days. Based on Steam client surveys, a lot of people are still rocking 4th gen i7's like the 4790. So getting something in performance equivalent to that should give you a good few more years of useful life.

Riight... actually, I did take pics and forgot to post them.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1616467216

One of the bay covers got punched in during transit. Oops.

The clear strips on the side are LED lit (not sure what color)

Looks okay on the front.

Giveaway it's a cheapie... flappy metal windowed side panel:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1616467216

Ah... it's one of those big-window older cases. Yeah, they are a bit flimsy, indeed. Not the worst I've seen, though.

Don't worry about the no-name fan. It's probably a sleeve-bearing... and a serviceable one, at that. Newer fans tend to be of the sealed variety, so can't be serviced once failed. These older sleeve bearing fans, though, with good cleaning and oil job can last pretty darn long.

At least they hemmed the holes in the back panel:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1616467216

The mobo tray is alright.

But have a look at the expansion slots cutouts - they didn't run the cut all the way to the top where the screw area is. Therefore, inserting any card in there with any ports that stick out even somewhat close to the top will be a nightmare. I just parted a case exactly like this last month I picked up on CL for free (owner really wanted to get rid of it... and now I see why... though it being a rust bucket was probably another reason why ) When I was taking it apart, it took me a few good moments to realize why I couldn't pull the GPU out of the system. Turned out, the DVI port of the GPU couldn't go up and out of the expansion slot cutout due to the case not being cut properly. No matter how hard I tried to pry the case, I couldn't get it out. Ended up having to remove all card part-way (as much out as possible) and then remove them together with the motherboard. UGH! Don't know who though of that design, but it's BAD.

Other than this annoyance, what you have should be a workable case... well, maybe. Another item to check is the front USB ports. I see at least the cables for the front USB ports on yours appear to be shielded (though if the shield is not connected, that will need to be fixed too.) On the one I parted, they weren't shielded at all - just crappy ribbon cables. No chance of getting even USB 2.0 speeds without devices dropping out or going back to USB 1.1. If the cables are thin, more power-hungry USB devices, such as portable HDDs, will almost always fail back to USB 1.1 speeds, IME. Soldering a cap or two (>220 uF) between Vcc and GND right at the USB port pins can sometimes solve this.
.
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But IDK if doing all of that might be worthwhile or not. If your dad really would like to re-use this case, then perhaps it might be. But otherwise, you may actually be better off with a newer and better-built case.

Noname PSU tag (sorry for crap focus, this Nikon is putting the POS in Point and Shoot):

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1616467216

450W my ass :

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1616467216

Board says it's made by Yuelin. Very lightweight, a true gutless wonder!

Yeah, that thing is the typical 100-150 Watts max crapola. I mean, sure it could probably output 200-250 Watts of "RAW" power... so long as you don't mind drowning your hardware with ripple tsunamis.
In short, this PSU would have had just about enough juice for back in the early/mid 2000's for a budget P4/AthlonXP PC with a low-end GPU (I'm talking about GeForce 7 series era or earlier)... and it probably wouldn't have lasted long at all either, given the crap build quality and lack of guts. It wasn't worthy of a fixup probably even back then and certainly not worth bothering to fix or install in a PC today. Of course, you know this already. I'm just taking my turn at badmouthing it

That PSU, I'd squish it in a vice while it's powered up just to see how much smoke & sparks come out of it...

Nah, I'd much rather scavenge the very few useful parts it has: namely the 13007 (or equivalent, if you're lucky ) BJTs, 16-20 Amp rectifiers (useful for upgrading the ones in LCD monitors to reduce heat output), and output toroids, which are pretty standard -26 core material and useful in many electronics projects... and of course, besides those, you'll also find a TL431 or two in there and a number of c945 BJTs - all useful for projects involving fan controllers or signal control in general.

Oh, and last but not least... those gutless PSUs regularly have large loading resistors. So the next time you want to slow down a fan with no speed controller (like you did on that low-profile CPU cooler from the SBC I sent ya), a PSU like this will very likely have the parts you need.

[brethin]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

I have a quad core 6600 with sli 9800 cards, 8 gig ram and it smokes these games, so don't tell me a i5 is having issues, unless it's loaded with spamware.

[brethin]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

Junk, your dad doesn't need a tower, if a i5 isn't enough which I think is try a i7, those games don't take alot and your wasting his and your money trying to build something he doesn't need.

[Topcat]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

That case is workable.....not the best or prettiest, but it would do the job. That PSU, I'd squish it in a vice while it's powered up just to see how much smoke & sparks come out of it...

[ratdude747]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

Oh c'mon, why do you tease us like this?
Give us pics!

Riight... actually, I did take pics and forgot to post them.



One of the bay covers got punched in during transit. Oops.

The clear strips on the side are LED lit (not sure what color)

Giveaway it's a cheapie... flappy metal windowed side panel:



Noname junk fan:



At least they hemmed the holes in the back panel:



Noname PSU tag (sorry for crap focus, this Nikon is putting the POS in Point and Shoot):



450W my ass :



Board says it's made by Yuelin. Very lightweight, a true gutless wonder!

[ratdude747]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

My guess is he has alot of junk slowing the system down. And yes a small ssd would make it much faster.

Not really on the former. The OS install has been twice upgraded (7 to 8.1, then 8.1 to 10) due to chasing software compatibility. But since the get go, all it's been attempted to do is his gaming software.

Sadly it's a SFF... half height cards only. Hence why putting the 1060 there isn't really an option. They do have a similar full-ATX HP wannabe workstation sitting (same chipset and all), but it was retired on unstable terms (didn't troubleshoot, likely a toasted PSU from running in a hot attic for a long time), and long term, I see it as a losing proposition. If it were for me, it'd be different (I run ancient stuff all over!), but since it's not, I'm playing by different rules.

[brethin]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

My guess is he has alot of junk slowing the system down. And yes a small ssd would make it much faster.

[ratdude747]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

Both of those require a core 2 duo or higher and 2-4gig ram with very basic graphics. A $100 box with a I5 would be fast and easy.

We tried that... Core2 Dell Optiplex 760 with a Geforce 730 GPU and 8GB of RAM. Didn't work worth a ****... Sometimes would work, but usually was too anemic to get anywhere. Running Windows 10 (required for both games so ANT+ works correctly). To be honest I suspect the HDD was the main issue (7200RPM spinner, of course), but as "antiquated" as the system is, I figured something newer would work better and provide better futureproofing (also, he personally requested a "newer" build). For now, he's been using his laptop (an Ivy Bridge i5 equipped Dell Latitude E6430) which does the job, just not elegantly.

[brethin]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

Both of those require a core 2 duo or higher and 2-4gig ram with very basic graphics. A $100 box with a I5 would be fast and easy.

[momaka]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

Father inlaw gave me a NOS case and PSU... but it's an old gamer case from the mid 2000's... and a cheap flimsy one at that. The kind I had when I first joined the forum (with a powmax PSU in that case). The PSU looks to be an old leadman/powmax POS... Not sure what to do with it; it's too nice looking to scrap but too crappy to actually use.

Oh c'mon, why do you tease us like this?
Give us pics!

Last spring, I picked up a similar-ish case, based on the description you give - one of those early Xion cases from the mid-2000's... except it didn't come with a PowMax (or Xion) PSU and was actually OK-looking once cleaned up. Cheap case, for sure... but functional. Only downside: it was again *sigh* the black version, but at least it was old enough that it wasn't painted inside and wasn't dark as charcoal inside (which is good, because it does have a windowed side.) Guess I gotta post pics of that, too, someday. I'm pretty sure a lot of you have seen these as they were fairly popular.

There are still a few cases that don't have a window or RGB, and some of them even have 5.25" bays.

Right, but the choices are quite limited - at least from the name-brand cases. If you're willing to go the no-name route, I'm sure there will be more choices... but then the question is what kind of quality you will get? (Most likely, not great.)

The quality of new cases really sucks, too. The Corsair 200R that I bought is supposed to be good, but it has most of the same problems as older $20 cases. The expansion slot cutouts are misaligned, the tool-free 5.25" drive mounting didn't work, every threaded hole was full of paint, and there are mounting holes for fans on the top panel that are completely unusable because the motherboard interferes.

A few years back when I used to work at a PC retailer and build customer-ordered PCs occasionally, I had a lot of these requested with the Corsair 100R and 200R cases. To be fair, these are actually fairly decent cases - as in, they do have their problems, like some of the items you pointed above... but for the most part they are workable cases. Some of the larger and more expensive cases with a ton of fan controllers and other crap pissed me off a lot more and were PITA to build more often than not.

On that note...

... there are mounting holes for fans on the top panel that are completely unusable because the motherboard interferes.

That's actually a very common issue with a lot of "budget" cases (which nowadays seems to be considered anything under $100 for whatever reason ), and even not-so-budget ones. Most of the times, you can't mount a normal 20-25 mm thick fan... or if you do, then squeezing the CPU power cables through the back and bending them under the fan becomes a nightmare. The latter issue I ran with in an older Cooler Master Storm case, where the 140 mm fan on the top left virtually no space to route the cables to the CPU from behind the board tray. And the former... well have a look at the pictures of this build I did a few years back:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=716
- Essentially the same issue - can't install a fan on either of the two top cutouts, as they would interfere with the motherboard components. So clearly, that case wasn't designed too great.

I also dislike vents on the top panel, because it often weakens the strength of the case at the top - again, especially with cheaper cases. I don't particularly abuse my cases, but sometimes I do make some of them serve "foot rest" duty under my desk... and those cases with the vents on top are a no-no here. Not only do they warp and bend easily, but any crap I pickup with my socks/feet can end up in the vent holes (solder whiskers for sure.) Not to mention it's very easy to drop something conductive in there and have it go on the motherboard and/or video card. In fact, I've seen a lot of liquid-damaged hardware from this. So I don't like that design at all.

What color DO people want nowadays?

Used to be people got tired of IBM beige...then they went black.
Now what? back to beige? White like αρρλε? or some exotic color? :\

I don't mind beige any day... though in all fairness, it often does look kind of worn-out / dirty / outdated. But I do like that it's a more "low-key" and neutral color.
White like Apple is OK - just not a big fan of the stuff that is excessively glossy. Flat white is great, though.
I also like silver and gray from the XP / early-mid 2000's era quite a bit. Something like this:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...postcount=2758

Black I can swallow, as long as it's not glossy and the case is not painted inside... which it always is with non-OEM cases nowadays.

People want every color now. That's why you get the RGB nonsense. You're supposed to like it or you aren't part of the "PC master race" (which is a really stupid name).

Agreed.
The "aesthetics" of modern PC cases have dropped to a whole new level of low.

And then there is crap like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OupiPZybyBE

I do wonder how the extremely thick paint (about the same thickness as the actual metal per side) affects the grounding.

Not that much, actually.
Even with a lot of paint in the screw holes, the screws still manage to make contact somewhere and ground things properly. Thus, the PSU still gets grounded to the case with its screws and the motherboard and its standoffs also get grounded too. So it's not a big deal.

[ratdude747]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

We're probably completely off-topic.

Yeah, but whatever.

Father inlaw gave me a NOS case and PSU... but it's an old gamer case from the mid 2000's... and a cheap flimsy one at that. The kind I had when I first joined the forum (with a powmax PSU in that case). The PSU looks to be an old leadman/powmax POS... Not sure what to do with it; it's too nice looking to scrap but too crappy to actually use.

[lti]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

People want every color now. That's why you get the RGB nonsense. You're supposed to like it or you aren't part of the "PC master race" (which is a really stupid name).

I do wonder how the extremely thick paint (about the same thickness as the actual metal per side) affects the grounding. These new cases have the inside painted black, and the paint on the Corsair 200R is at least non-conductive at the voltage my multimeter outputs.

We're probably completely off-topic.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

especially because I'm tired of the all-black looks.

What color DO people want nowadays?

Used to be people got tired of IBM beige...then they went black.
Now what? back to beige? White like αρρλε? or some exotic color? :\

For me what I should worry about is EMI compliance (I'm a ham after all?)... but too cheap to do much about it.

[lti]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

There are still a few cases that don't have a window or RGB, and some of them even have 5.25" bays. It seems like the cases without windows throw in tons of fan vents instead.

The quality of new cases really sucks, too. The Corsair 200R that I bought is supposed to be good, but it has most of the same problems as older $20 cases. The expansion slot cutouts are misaligned, the tool-free 5.25" drive mounting didn't work, every threaded hole was full of paint, and there are mounting holes for fans on the top panel that are completely unusable because the motherboard interferes.

I found the Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (the non-windowed version) and the Fractal Design Core 2500 in a quick search. Those still have some issues.

[momaka]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

I would go for a slick less gimmicky good looking regular atx case

Please advise when you find any. :\
All I see is tempered glass and gimmicky RGB fans in just about everything nowadays.
Also, price doesn't necessarily seem to go hand-in-hand with quality anymore either. If anything, the higher the price, the more RGB fans I see crammed in there and the more silly the design.
Oh, and 5.25" drive slots seem to be a thing of the past, too... so not much of a choice when it comes to new cases if you did wanted to have a 5.25" drive.

I would also recommend a Seasonic S12III (https://www.newegg.com/seasonic-s12i...82E16817151226). Fairly cheap, good results, with a 5yr warranty. Seasonic focus and other high end series I would always recommend (though not cheap) but if this is a medium end gaming rig the former should be fine.

Or you can go with a good quality used PSU to save some money. Nothing wrong with grabbing an old used Silverstone, IMO. Some EVGA PSUs are pretty OK too. Just as long as it doesn't have a ton of hours on it (or a ton of dust), it should be fine.

[Uranium-235]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

I would not really recommend cheap big gaming cases. I would go for a slick less gimmicky good looking regular atx case

I would also recommend a Seasonic S12III (https://www.newegg.com/seasonic-s12i...82E16817151226). Fairly cheap, good results, with a 5yr warranty. Seasonic focus and other high end series I would always recommend (though not cheap) but if this is a medium end gaming rig the former should be fine.

[momaka]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

Time for some crappy pics:

Didn't get one of the case as a whole, but it's one of these:

http://www.azza-tek.com/m/2010-1275-122655.php?Lang=en

Specifically, the 250 version (3x USB 2.0, 1x USB 1.0).

Feels cheap and flimsy. I've seen (and dealt with) worse (at least they fully hemmed any exposed sheet metal edges!).

Typical modern case - cheap thins steel, but with enough bends and folds, it actually holds up OK for the most part. I still don't like them, though - especially because I'm tired of the all-black looks.

Noname cooler:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1614490075

Some no name coolers aren't actually too bad.
I bought a 2-heatpipe one and it actually works as advertised. Was machined quite well too. Only issue was some of the fins came slightly bent from the shipping due to no padding in the box whatsoever. Nothing that I couldn't fix in 2-3 minutes with tweezers and an old credit card.

Noname RAM to go with it:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1614490240

Memtest it well. If it works without errors, probably OK to reuse in some crappy non-important build.

At least they used a brand name CPU socket:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1614490287

Probably because it came from a recycled board, as is usually the chipset too on many of these AliExpress/eBay/Amazon no name boards.

I bench tested the board one last time... nada. no lights or activity.

Check all of the small regulators on the board. Chances are, since it's a cheapo China board, it probably uses cheapo China MOSFETs and regulators too. I wouldn't be too surprised if one of them has bit the dust. If not, then I'm putting my money on a dead recycled chipset.

What I thought was an abnormally wide audio isolation slot is actually mobo bling bling... it's backlit!

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1614490287

Welcome to modern day custom PCs... where it's all about form first and then function... like 2nd to last, with reliability being the last for sure.

Then again, it is an OCZ:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1614490540

...full of Samxon GF caps:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1614490540

...in impossible to replace skinny sizes. Now I remember why the two 800W OCZ's I have are still in the junk box in my parents basement

Looks like a Seasonic S12-II platform or similar.
You can squeeze 10 mm caps on the output in place of those 8 mm ones if you raise them 3-4 mm off the board, which shouldn't be an issue here, as these are the last caps in the filter. The main filter for the 12V rail is that bigger 16V cap to the left of the main PS output inductor.

Decided to look at the PSU closer... Those skinny caps are 6mm(ish) 470uf 16V Capxon's (Apparently they also make a GF series). Which, of course, literally nobody makes (at least on Digikey), let alone in a reputable brand rated for PSU usage and there isn't really room to go up in diameter. Thanks OCZ/FSP

Check with Behemot, he might have some custom order for those FPS PSUs.

But other than that... yeah, I hate PSUs that use skinny caps with no space for bigger ones.

I guess that makes the PSU scrap...

Well, not necessarily.

Since none of the caps appear to be bad yet (you should always check, of course... though if the PSU is less than a few years old, you probably won't find any bad ones yet), you can use the PSU "as-is", but perhaps in some less-than-important PC until it croaks.

Or, you could also try to do a partial recap for at least the caps that you can find substitutes for. Getting the 5VSB output caps replaced will generally be a huge improvement already, as those are usually the ones to go first. Anything more is bonus. And if you really don't like that idea, then do a full recap, but perhaps with smaller capacity caps that fit. As long as the drop in capacitance is only a level or two lower max, chances are the PSU won't care much... at least not if you don't load it to the max. Thus, even with smaller caps, if you "derate" the outputs accordingly, it should still be OK to use.

So it's far from scrap, honestly. Just not a PSU I'd put on my "A-list". Better than this hunk of junk any day of the week!
... and you'll be surprised how many people still buy those crappy PSUs and use them for many years until their caps or fan croaks... provided they don't bomb their guts on first power-up.

[Topcat]

Re: Building a gaming rig for my dad...

Understood.

I may have a tradebait lead on a board, RAM, CPU, and cooler. It's actually older than what came out, but would get the job done (Single CPU Xeon with a relative buttload of RAM (24GB?), Supermicro X8SAX). Not sure if that's the way I want to go... but if it works, it works?

(I'll let the current owner of such chime in if he wishes... although likely y'all can guess who that is, given how my trading's been lately).

I set it aside for you. CPU is a Westmere Xeon W3690 hex @ 3.46. Same CPU as the x5690, but the "W" series won't run in a dual config...hence in a single board. The rest you know.