Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

[Spork Schivago]

Hello,

I'm in the market for a good POST card reader. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I was looking at something a bit more fancy, kinda like this:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7574-_-Product

But if you guys have any experience with any of them and can recommend a real good one, I'd appreciate. Right now, it's for a desktop. I wanted one that had multiple connections. I see some work with certain laptops. That could helpful, although I don't really expect to find one that'll work with all laptops.

I've seen some that have USB ports and I'm guessing certain laptops now send POST codes through the USB port. Does anyone have any experience on that? Is it fairly common now to find laptops that do that?

Thanks!

[Agent24]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

I have no idea, but I bought a cheap one once ages ago. It didn't work very well except in one machine, and when tested in another it died and took the motherboard with it.

I would say you'd have to go by the feedback, find one which people seem to like.

I do notice though, that that one says "The compatibility passed the test for a series of motherboards of INTEL 815,INTEL 845,INTEL 865,INTEL 915,INTEL 945 INTEL 965 ATI SB600,ATI Xpress 200,ATI Xpress 1100,AMD 480X chipset."

I am going to assume it only works with those chipsets, or at least, it can only produce meaningful results with those. Which is a bit limited...

It might be more useful to buy a book like the laptop repair one here: http://www.chinafix.com/thread-962449-1-1.html (which could also apply to desktop motherboards) or otherwise learn more about how to troubleshoot the board, because I think that most repairs will require knowledge of how to test at board level rather than just expecting that card to do all the work for you.

I repaired an MSI motherboard (Post is on here somewhere) just looking at the schematic and testing voltages mostly. It turned out the NB and RAM buck regulator controllers were dead.

I doubt a POST card like these would have told me anything of the sort! Since the NB was not getting power, I expect this card would have simply said nothing.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

I have no idea, but I bought a cheap one once ages ago. It didn't work very well except in one machine, and when tested in another it died and took the motherboard with it.

I would say you'd have to go by the feedback, find one which people seem to like.

I do notice though, that that one says "The compatibility passed the test for a series of motherboards of INTEL 815,INTEL 845,INTEL 865,INTEL 915,INTEL 945 INTEL 965 ATI SB600,ATI Xpress 200,ATI Xpress 1100,AMD 480X chipset."

I am going to assume it only works with those chipsets, or at least, it can only produce meaningful results with those. Which is a bit limited...

It might be more useful to buy a book like the laptop repair one here: http://www.chinafix.com/thread-962449-1-1.html (which could also apply to desktop motherboards) or otherwise learn more about how to troubleshoot the board, because I think that most repairs will require knowledge of how to test at board level rather than just expecting that card to do all the work for you.

I repaired an MSI motherboard (Post is on here somewhere) just looking at the schematic and testing voltages mostly. It turned out the NB and RAM buck regulator controllers were dead.

I doubt a POST card like these would have told me anything of the sort! Since the NB was not getting power, I expect this card would have simply said nothing.

I appreciate the information. I do know how to test boards with various test equipments, but right now, I need to see where my PC is hanging during POST to get a better idea what might be causing the issue. I'm going to go through the various diagnostic procedures to try and figure out what's wrong, but I figured now would be a good time to purchase one.

As for the chipsets they list, I'm assuming they tested their card on those boards and it worked, not that they're the only boards it works on, you see what I'm saying? I believe they're saying we can guarantee it works on these boards here, we tested it personally on them. Thanks for the feedback.

The reason I asked here was to get an idea of what people have used and if they had any recommendations on what to get / what not to get. You don't happen to know which one you bought all those years ago, do you? So I can make sure not to purchase the same one?

For what it's worth, I have a feeling it might be a bad stick of RAM on my desktop. I'll start pulling them, but even if I find the problem, I'd still like to purchase a POST card reader.

Thanks!

[cpt.charlie]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

I use an old PCI POST card i bought form dealextreme many years ago and it works nicely, the problem with this kind of hardware is that you don't know the exact order of the condes in the boot secuence and it can add more confusion, but it's usefull to see things like the reset signal or if there are changes when you use a different ram.

Keep in mind this cards won't work with most laptops unless you take the schematics and solder the cables to the right place.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

Thanks Cpt.Charlie. When I was going through college, I thought the POST process was the same on all computers. I thought the order didn't change any. Are you saying that's not the case?

Also, yeah, last time I had checked, it was almost impossible to see the POST codes on a laptop. It's changed a bit from what I've read. Some laptop boards now support it via a mini-PCI-E connector or something along those lines. I think some even provide them via USB port.

I'm interested in the soldering stuff you're talking about. Do you know what points I'd be looking for on a board to solder stuff to? I doubt I'll find schematics now-a-days, but that could be a real fun project. I also wonder if there's some way to read them without a POST card reader using some of the equipment I have around here....I have to admit, I don't fully understand how the POST codes are generated and I don't know much about the PCI connectors with their pinouts and everything.

A little update, I pulled the CPU fan off and tore the fan off the heatsink. There was a good bit of dust in there. I cleaned that and I'm getting ready to have my wife re-thermal paste it. I'm going to carefully vacuum out the dust in the case as well. Having two cats seems to cause problems. The hair is probably getting in through one of the fans (ie, PSU fan).

[Agent24]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

As for the chipsets they list, I'm assuming they tested their card on those boards and it worked, not that they're the only boards it works on, you see what I'm saying? I believe they're saying we can guarantee it works on these boards here, we tested it personally on them. Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's Chinglish, it could mean anything...!

The reason I asked here was to get an idea of what people have used and if they had any recommendations on what to get / what not to get. You don't happen to know which one you bought all those years ago, do you? So I can make sure not to purchase the same one?

It looks very very much like this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Comp...595977642.html

Now that I think about it, I probably inserted the ISA connector wrong. It's not keyed and the manual was in Chinese.



Interestingly, here's the schematic for one which operates on the ISA slot - no use now I guess, but interesting to see how they did it then. http://bbright.tripod.com/information/postcard.htm

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's Chinglish, it could mean anything...!



It looks very very much like this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Comp...595977642.html

Now that I think about it, I probably inserted the ISA connector wrong. It's not keyed and the manual was in Chinese.



Interestingly, here's the schematic for one which operates on the ISA slot - no use now I guess, but interesting to see how they did it then. http://bbright.tripod.com/information/postcard.htm

Wow, thank you. I think I see what the Capt'n was saying. I'm going to be referring to just Desktops, unless I specific otherwise. I didn't realize different manufacturers used different codes. I've never used a POST card reader before but I've known about them for a very long time now.

From looking at that link, it almost looks like I can just build one for a PCI connector, doesn't it? I mean, I'd have to modify it a little, but I don't really need the 7-segment display right now. If I got it in binary, I could just manually convert it. The ones I saw all had some sort of surface mount chip soldered on. I thought there was more to it. Maybe that's because the ones I were looking at were for more than one connector.

I wonder how hard it'd be to rig something up real quick like, just to try and read the codes. If I could get a few LEDs to light up with the code, that'd be great.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

Just a small update, I got the PC running again. I reseated the RAM but I doubt that was the problem. When I pulled off the CPU fan, I saw all the dust between the fan and heatsink. I could have pulled it off, as if it was a blanket. I cleaned it real well and replaced the thermal paste. System is running fine now.

I see some boards don't give POST reports on the PCI bus at all, on those boards, a POST card reader won't work, obviously.

I think I'll probably go for the red one I first linked to.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

i use a hde post card that i got off amazon. the 4 digits instead of 2 are useful to find out what it was doing before the post sequence hung up.

obviously, dont rely on the post code manual that comes with the post card. the post code "translations" may be for 80s or 90s era 286, 386, 486 or pentium pro bioses. different bios manufacturers (phoenix, award, ami, ibm bios etc.) use different hexadecimal codes for different post checkpoints. even different bios revisions from the same manufacturer use different post codes. the post checkpoint boot sequence is different also.

there used to be a postcodemaster.com website that had all the postcode checkpoints "translated" so u know what it was doing or booting at each post checkpoint. but i think the website owner forgot to pay the bill or sumthing and the site is gone. i did manage to save the post code "translations" for the latest ami and award bios which are the dominant bioses used on post-2000 era mobos.

I reseated the RAM but I doubt that was the problem.

actually, that is a very common problem with computers nowadays. due to the mem controller being in the cpu (low signalling voltage as a result) and rohs, the signalling between the dimms and cpu are very prone to interference by dirty or oxidised goldfinger contacts. cleaning them often restores a non-working computer from what i seen on many IT and computer forums.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

i use a hde post card that i got off amazon. the 4 digits instead of 2 are useful to find out what it was doing before the post sequence hung up.

obviously, dont rely on the post code manual that comes with the post card. the post code "translations" may be for 80s or 90s era 286, 386, 486 or pentium pro bioses. different bios manufacturers (phoenix, award, ami, ibm bios etc.) use different hexadecimal codes for different post checkpoints. even different bios revisions from the same manufacturer use different post codes. the post checkpoint boot sequence is different also.

there used to be a postcodemaster.com website that had all the postcode checkpoints "translated" so u know what it was doing or booting at each post checkpoint. but i think the website owner forgot to pay the bill or sumthing and the site is gone. i did manage to save the post code "translations" for the latest ami and award bios which are the dominant bioses used on post-2000 era mobos.

So it's the BIOS manufacturers that handle the POST codes? I would have thought it'd be the manufacturers that wrote the code that's on the BIOS. For example, let's say the BIOS I have in this computer is an American Megatrends BIOS, but the computer is an ASUS. Even though American Megatrends made the actual chip, isn't the firmware on that chip written by Asus? Wouldn't it be Asus who wrote those codes? Or do I not understand something

actually, that is a very common problem with computers nowadays. due to the mem controller being in the cpu (low signalling voltage as a result) and rohs, the signalling between the dimms and cpu are very prone to interference by dirty or oxidised goldfinger contacts. cleaning them often restores a non-working computer from what i seen on many IT and computer forums.

I don't think this was the problem with mine, I have a socket 775. I think that's before the memory controllers were in the CPUs, right? Isn't for newer sockets, like socket 1366, 2011, etc?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

That's still good to know though ChaosLegionnaire. I'll keep that in mind for future reference. I'm sure that knowledge will come in handy one of these days in the near future.

I got a real nice PC in the mail the other day. It's an HP workstation. I believe it has 32GB of RAM and two 240GB SSD drives. It has two Xeon CPUs (6-core CPUs I believe, but I might be wrong). It's got some weird slots on it. PCI 32 I think was one, and then something like PCI 133 or 132 or something odd like that. One is really really long. I'll post pictures soon. I wonder what type of add-ons would go in those weird slots.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

So it's the BIOS manufacturers that handle the POST codes? I would have thought it'd be the manufacturers that wrote the code that's on the BIOS. For example, let's say the BIOS I have in this computer is an American Megatrends BIOS, but the computer is an ASUS. Even though American Megatrends made the actual chip, isn't the firmware on that chip written by Asus? Wouldn't it be Asus who wrote those codes? Or do I not understand something

ami doesnt make the actual chip. the bios is a software or firmware program remember? the bios chip is either flash memory or an eeprom made by a solid state memory manufacturer.

ami/award/the bios manufacturer probably just writes the base source code for the bios. then the mobo manufacturer just adds additional software bios code for different cpu support and hardware on whatever they decide to put on the mainboard.

so i guess the term "bios manufacturer" causes some confusion for u since they dont actually make hardware. not sure why its called that way too. i guess "bios (software) developer" sounds more like the technically correct term to use.

I don't think this was the problem with mine, I have a socket 775. I think that's before the memory controllers were in the CPUs, right? Isn't for newer sockets, like socket 1366, 2011, etc?

its still lead free. so that makes it vulnerable to dirty/tarnished/oxidised contacts. i had the same issues before on my gigabyte ep35-ds3 lga775 board.

It's got some weird slots on it. PCI 32 I think was one, and then something like PCI 133 or 132 or something odd like that. One is really really long.

here is a link to playtool showing the different types of expansion slots. if u scroll towards the end of the page, the long slots could probably be either a pci 64bit 5v slot or a pci 64bit 3.3v slot from the picture. they could also be agp pro slots but its unlikely considering the age of the board, its probably a pci-express era board, so no point having agp on it.

that site also has some fun bits of info in its other articles. one of which is multiple agp video card support in the agp rev 3.0 spec. not sure if u know about this, spork. this could allow for sli and crossfire of multiple agp video cards using something called port bifurcation in the agp rev3 spec but it never caught on and manufacturers kept quiet about it. i guess they did that to prevent agp from stealing the thunder of pci-express and they wanted to kill agp to make ppl pay and pay for "upgrades". hmm... typical...

[cpt.charlie]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

I thought the POST process was the same on all computers. I thought the order didn't change any. Are you saying that's not the case?

The boot secuence depends of the chipset (and bios software) AFAIK, but the meaning of each code depends of the bios maker model and version

Also, yeah, last time I had checked, it was almost impossible to see the POST codes on a laptop. It's changed a bit from what I've read. Some laptop boards now support it via a mini-PCI-E connector or something along those lines. I think some even provide them via USB port.

I think USB is used to provide power to the post card, most mini pci-e connectors used at laptops won't provide post codes just reset signal.

I'm interested in the soldering stuff you're talking about. Do you know what points I'd be looking for on a board to solder stuff to?

Consider the following image:


To read post codes in laptops you need the signals LAD0 LAD1 LAD2 LAD3 LRESET# LFRAME# LCLK these signals are generated at the EC (sometimes the manufacturer is kind enough to take the signals to a pad for testing in production)

[expensest]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

Thank you all for help

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

ami doesnt make the actual chip. the bios is a software or firmware program remember? the bios chip is either flash memory or an eeprom made by a solid state memory manufacturer.

When I was saying BIOS chip, I was referring to the actual IC. So AMI is not making the IC?

ami/award/the bios manufacturer probably just writes the base source code for the bios. then the mobo manufacturer just adds additional software bios code for different cpu support and hardware on whatever they decide to put on the mainboard.

so i guess the term "bios manufacturer" causes some confusion for u since they dont actually make hardware. not sure why its called that way too. i guess "bios (software) developer" sounds more like the technically correct term to use.

They sometimes massacre the actual software that's on the chip (the BIOS). I think HP is notorious for this. I just never released the manufacturers weren't writing the BIOS from scratch. I thought the companies like AMI where physically making the chip, and then companies like HP were writing the BIOSes. I guess it makes more sense now knowing what you told me. I've heard people talk about certain companies locking down their BIOSes, overwriting functions or sometimes, if you're lucky, just removing them from the menus. It doesn't really make sense, looking back, as to why they'd write code just to remove it. I thought they were doing that for testing. Giving them the various options in the test environment and when the system went to production, then removing it (ie, memory voltages, clock speed, etc).

its still lead free. so that makes it vulnerable to dirty/tarnished/oxidised contacts. i had the same issues before on my gigabyte ep35-ds3 lga775 board.

Perhaps the RAM did play a role and reseating it helped, but when I removed the fan from the heatsink, I don't think there was any air getting to that heatsink at all. I actually pulled a layer off, like you would a napkin. Just cat hair and dust. It all came off one piece, like a filter. Then I sprayed it out with a can of air to get the smaller stuff. I really think the CPU was overheating and this was causing the issues. The RAM could have also played a bit of a role though. I wasn't going to take any chances and when I had it tore apart, I just did a thorough job, like I normally do. I don't have access to an air compressor right now, so I took the vacuum and carefully vacuumed out all the dust bunnies.

here is a link to playtool showing the different types of expansion slots. if u scroll towards the end of the page, the long slots could probably be either a pci 64bit 5v slot or a pci 64bit 3.3v slot from the picture. they could also be agp pro slots but its unlikely considering the age of the board, its probably a pci-express era board, so no point having agp on it.

that site also has some fun bits of info in its other articles. one of which is multiple agp video card support in the agp rev 3.0 spec. not sure if u know about this, spork. this could allow for sli and crossfire of multiple agp video cards using something called port bifurcation in the agp rev3 spec but it never caught on and manufacturers kept quiet about it. i guess they did that to prevent agp from stealing the thunder of pci-express and they wanted to kill agp to make ppl pay and pay for "upgrades". hmm... typical...

Multi-AGP video card support? Are you saying they made boards that had more than one AGP video card on them?? My rememory isn't that good anymore, but I want to say AGP wasn't around for very long, was it? In my personal opinion, I think this was good though. With PCI-E, you can use cards other than video cards in the slots. There are people that don't even use video cards, still, today. My friend's friend is one of them. He's blind and doesn't have a monitor at all. I seem to remember people using a printer for output a long time ago.

I pulled the side case off the HP xw8600 workstation. These are the slots:

PCI 32/33
PCI-Express x16
PCI-Express x8 (4)
PCI-Express x16 (16,8)
PCI-Express x8 (1,8)
PCI-Express x8 (4)
PCI-X 133

I'm nbot used to seeing slots like this but also, this is the first workstation I've ever owned. It was the PCI-X 133 I was wondering about. And then that PCI 32 / 33. I'm almost thinking it's the speed of the bus. A PCI-X with a 133MHz bus speed and a PCI 32 with a 33 MHz bus speed. I'll do some research on it and look at that link you sent. Never heard of PCI-X until I got this system.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

The boot secuence depends of the chipset (and bios software) AFAIK, but the meaning of each code depends of the bios maker model and version

This is something I want to try and verify. When I was going to college, in one of the computer courses, I took a test. I wasn't enrolled in the class, I just went with my girlfriend. I helped her study though for the test and knew the answers. I passed and the teacher ended up letting me stay for the rest of the semester and gave me a grade. Anyway, one of the questions was the bootup sequence. I don't remember them now, but there where something like 17 steps at the time. Early on was initaliaze video, RAM, etc. Eventually, execute on-chip BIOSes for add-on cards, finally, execute the code at sector 0 of the harddrive.

Also, thank you for telling me about the different codes. Having never used a POST card reader before, I might have falsely assumed the codes were standardized.

I think USB is used to provide power to the post card, most mini pci-e connectors used at laptops won't provide post codes just reset signal.

I remember something about this. It wasn't popular or anything, but I really think I remember one of the manufacturers sending POST signals through the USB port on a certain laptop. It wasn't something they shared with the public, but someone figured it out. It was one of the bigger named ones, like HP or Sony or something like that. I'll try to find information on that.

Consider the following image:


To read post codes in laptops you need the signals LAD0 LAD1 LAD2 LAD3 LRESET# LFRAME# LCLK these signals are generated at the EC (sometimes the manufacturer is kind enough to take the signals to a pad for testing in production)

Thank you. Why did you circle some other stuff on that picture there? Also, I thought TPM was the Trusted Platform Module and provided some sort of security. I remember having to make a device to recover a password that was stored on the TPM for a laptop. I still have it around here somewhere. Do all laptops have a TPM and if they don't, will they still have the LAD0, LAD1, LAD2, LAD3, LRESET#, LFRAME#, and CLK signals? Also, what do you mean by EC? Embedded Controller or ExpressCard?

You've been extremely helpful, along with the other users here. Normally, I can find this information on my own using the internet. Our baby's changed a bit and seems to only be needing four hours or sleep a so a night now and she's got sooooo much energy. I can't even remember when the last time i woke up not to her crying. She just wants to play all the time and if we put her down, she'll start crying. I am so tired that I'm having a real hard time even reading the text on the screen, it's all blurry.

[Agent24]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

When I was saying BIOS chip, I was referring to the actual IC. So AMI is not making the IC?

They sometimes massacre the actual software that's on the chip (the BIOS). I think HP is notorious for this. I just never released the manufacturers weren't writing the BIOS from scratch. I thought the companies like AMI where physically making the chip

No. AMI make the base BIOS code which is written to the BIOS EEPROM, which is just a bog-standard EEPROM made by the usual suspects, eg: ST Micro, Hynix, etc etc.
The PC or Motherboard manufacturers customise the code as the need for the specific model they're designing.

Multi-AGP video card support? Are you saying they made boards that had more than one AGP video card on them?? My rememory isn't that good anymore, but I want to say AGP wasn't around for very long, was it?

I don't know for sure, but I've never heard of multi AGP slot systems. AGP did last quite a while though, starting with the original AGP version 1.0 in 1997 and lasted to about 2008

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

No. AMI make the base BIOS code which is written to the BIOS EEPROM, which is just a bog-standard EEPROM made by the usual suspects, eg: ST Micro, Hynix, etc etc.
The PC or Motherboard manufacturers customise the code as the need for the specific model they're designing.

Thanks!

I don't know for sure, but I've never heard of multi AGP slot systems. AGP did last quite a while though, starting with the original AGP version 1.0 in 1997 and lasted to about 2008

Holy cow! 2008? Did it really last that long? I remember it in high school and that was about it. Granted, back in 2001 I joined the Marine Corps and in 2005 I worked at DCSI, mostly with servers and desktops that had integrated video cards. Then, I went back to college. I didn't really do a lot of motherboard buying or anything like that until I was done with the college.

[Agent24]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

Not sure about the motherboard chipsets, but the Radeon HD4650 was one of the last cards to come out in an AGP version around that time.

[diif]

Re: Recommendations for a good POST card reader.

It wasn't a TPM you recovered a password from Spork. Its usually fitted to the more business class laptops to ensure data stays encrypted.