core2 duo vs core2 quad

[ratdude747]

I'm thinking of eventually upgrading the cpu in my main rig, which is a 1.8ghz pentium dual core.

lateling in supertuxkart and TORCS there have been ocassional lags during gameplay.

the question is whether a core 2 quad is worth the addtional expense.

my mobo is an intel 35dp35 with the latest BIOS. my cooler is a cooler master hyper tx3.

also, my GPU is a 256mb Geforce 7600GT... and I use 2gb of ram, vista 32 bit. could my ram or gpu be my bottleneck?

yes, i know, vista, but thats not the point of discussion.

my other specs:

-atech g4 clone case, dremel modded for better airflow. PWM rear fan
-950W tuniq miniplant, recapped
-320gb WD caviar blue

[Uranium-235]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

huge difference. even a later 2.8 pdc beats the crap out of it. a c2d would be a big diff. I did have a 6750 that lagged still on later games, even with a gtx 285. get a 8xxx c2d. a 8400/8500 would be good

[Uranium-235]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

try a pdc 8600

look here

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/mid_range_cpus.html

there is plenty of chips between the 1.8 and the very expensive c2d/q's. find the highest compatible one for the price. might take some math, and a graph

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

well, I was wanting a real c2d, not a wannabe PDC.

I bought the cpu as a tester for the board, which was a freebie in unknown condition and i didn't have any thing core based 775. same with the ram, which the original 1gb module was a cheap tester (all my dd2 was 533mhz, this board requires 667mhz+).

since, I never upgraded the cpu as I was spending toy money elsewhere (laptop upgrades, etc.). I eventually found an identical ram module to toss in (and to enable dual channel) when I was obtaining parts to finish the system, which at that point had had a lot of parts stolen for other things.

since my board is an intel, i can't OC it, which from my reading I hear is a good overclocking unit... its a shame because I have a decent cooler and all... even under full load the fan never goes past the slowest speed...

right now it feels like I have a sports car with an econo box engine (cpu), cheap tires (ram), and a lame tranny (the graphics card). its weird since I have such a nice board (imho), psu, and opticals... oh well, when I have the $ and it becomes a priority I guess.

[Mad_Professor]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I'm running a Q8300 on a P5N-D, it overclocks like shit.

Anyways I've been happy with my Q8300 but right now I recently acquired a SLI setup with two GTX260 and was benching with Grand Theft Auto 4 but my quad became a bottleneck, so I've oc'd it to 2.8 from 2.5 and running prime95 now. It will not OC anymore and does not run stable at 3ghz. I blame this shitty asus board with 750i chip and buggy bios.

As for your lag/framerate issue I would say it's a combination of things.

1st: Your graphics card is kind of old and uses pixel/vertex shaders versus the new Unified Shader Architecture found in Geforce 8, 9, GTX200-500 series, Radeon HD2000-6000 series.

Your 7600GT only comes with 12 pixel pipelines and 5 vertex pipelines.

My GTX260 on the other hand has 216 Shader processors, but to be honest mine comes from EVGA with 216 enabled, the regular GTX260 only have 192 shader processors.

The difference between the three is that pixel shaders can't do vertex and vertex can't do pixel. But the new Unified shader processors can do both which allows manufacturers to place more cores on a wafer for cheap.

That's your first issue, your second issue is ram. The bandwidth of the ram only matters if you're doing 1:1 ratio with the Front Side Bus. Since you're running 533 and that PDC 1.8ghz probably has 200mhz FSB *QuadDataRate= 800mhz* You're losing quite a bit of performance. If the board only supports 667 then it doesn't matter much. But if it can run 800 or 1066 then I would suggest getting an upgrade to at least DDR2-800 and get 4 or 8GB dual channel kit, this will open your memory controller pipes from 64bit to 128bit.

3rd issues is processor, Pentium Dual cores are not known for their performance, but deep down it's really an underclocked Core2 chip. It should have enough power to play your games.

If you had the option I would have said overclock that mofo.

Frankly 4 cores is better then 2, but are useless if the application is not written to be multi-threaded or only written to use 2 or it's not optimized to take 4 or more. If I was you, I would see if the application that I was using can actually utilize the cores.

If I had to buy a quad for a 775, I would probably buy a Q9xx series for it higher multiplier.


To be honest your rig is becoming outdated. If I was you, I would invest in a new graphics card rather then to upgrade the processor to a slowly outdated system.


Something to think about.
Hope this help.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

yeah, I know... the thing is I have a limited budget and right now a decent battery for my laptop and finishing the dualie Athlon rig is higher on the list... if I had the funds, yeah, a core i7 would be in the beast... but I have what I have and I try to make the best of it.

[Mad_Professor]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I was so tired I kept falling asleep so I didn't get a chance to finish my post.

I actually at one time had a core2duo 2320 1.8ghz and a 7800GS on a ASrock 4CoreDual-VSTA, and I remember when Team Fortress 2 came out, I was barely able to run it with 30 frames but then Grand Theft Auto 4 came out and I had to upgrade. Going from 7800GS to a GTX260 was like night and day for me.

I would just buy a new graphics card, a 9800 or gtx 450/460 would be a good upgrade.

[kc8adu]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

i have found the pentium dualcores to be great overclockers.push it hard.risk is low.
a neighbor has a 2.0 running at 3.6 24/7/365.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

uhh... my mainboard is an intel, so OC is out of the question.

[mariushm]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

Well all I can say is search ebay... you may get lucky and get a good socket 775 board for a few dollars.

Here's some suggestions:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-2...item4cfd31ecce

http://www.ebay.com/itm/socket-775-m...item1c2269e090

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gigabyte-Tec...item23182916f9

If you have some good timing you may snatch them at 30-40$ ... won't upgrade much the cpu, but at least you'd have ddr2 and pci express.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUSTeK-COMP...item1c224839d1 <-- this one says possibly damaged due to faulty psu, but not tested - for 10$ i would risk buying it and it's probably not going to have a lot of bidders.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUSTeK-P5B-...item3cc05f6e95 <--- same with this one, says it enters bios but can't install windows - probably nothing faulty, just him being stupid, or drive controller set incorrectly to ahci mode.

and there's lots of stuff like the ones above.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I don't want a new mobo. that wasn't the point of this thread, nor was it the goal.

the system was never designed to OC. it was designed to be a quiet but powerful machine... not a jet engine OC machine. Maybe I'll build one at a later date if I upgrade CPUs and repurpose the old cpu... but for now, I wish to keep the exist board for various reasons:

1. I/O- this board is a perfect match for my case. Unlike the boards listed, it has firewire, which is nice and fits the case well, which the case also has. yes, I could install a firewire card with a header connection (which I have), but I'd rather not.

2. machine design- As it is, the system is very quiet and nice... and the only performance gain a new mobo would give is OC abilities, which would undermine the quiet feature of the system.

3. reliability- this board has never given me trouble and being an intel board, I don't forsee it being a likely candidate for failure. I more or less know the history of this board; it was used in a mission-critical office machine, where no parts were cheaped out. the boards listed on the other hand... they can claim whatever they want, but you really don't know. plus, If its an asus of that era, I'm not paying money for it.

4. ease of use- this sounds lame, but I really do not want to change to mobo in this case... the way things fit, its a delicate balancing act installing and removing the board.

sorry, this is a cpu thread, not a mobo thread.

[mariushm]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

The reason why I recommended a new motherboard is because the overclocking features of these boards also give you the ability to use some processors that otherwise wouldn't be supported by your board.

Just because the board can overclock a processor, doesn't mean you'll have a noisy computer - my current processor is cooled by a Zerotherm FZ120 and it's barely audible, yet I can overclock the q6600 from 2.4 Ghz stock to 3.3 Ghz without even raising the voltage.

It makes no sense to pay money to upgrade your processor from what you have now to a dual core, when you can pay about 10-20$ on a motherboard that would allow you to use a quad core processor on it.

Ok, I understand your point about knowing the motherboard and being reliable and I see you get the point about firewire (some of the boards I listed above HAVE firewire onboard and they're just some random picks I made in 10 minutes, not representative or what you can get off ebay) and how it's not a "deal breaker" but in the end you have to tabulate the advantages and disadvantages of changing both board and cpu or just getting a slightly better cpu.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

the question is whether a core 2 quad is worth the addtional expense.

No. - Not worth it.
.
With that Video and 2GB RAM on Vista a CPU with 4 cores isn't going to make much difference over a 2 core.
.
A dual core [or C2D] with a faster FSB might be worth it, but a quad core, ~ nah.
Once you have the FSB speeded up going from 2 to 4 core would be severely diminished returns on your $$$s.
Yeah a 4 core might be faster ~with some apps~ but you improvement per $ spent would be crap.
.
Were it me I'd keep an eye open for a good deal on an E6550 or E6750.
The FSB and bigger cache will give you a big boost from where you are now.
.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

No. - Not worth it.
.
With that Video and 2GB RAM on Vista a CPU with 4 cores isn't going to make much difference over a 2 core.
.
A dual core [or C2D] with a faster FSB might be worth it, but a quad core, ~ nah.
Once you have the FSB speeded up going from 2 to 4 core would be severely diminished returns on your $$$s.
Yeah a 4 core might be faster ~with some apps~ but you improvement per $ spent would be crap.
.
Were it me I'd keep an eye open for a good deal on an E6550 or E6750.
The FSB and bigger cache will give you a big boost from where you are now.
.

noted. that is the type of answer I was looking for.

[brethin]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

Unless you use software that supports multi cores (And I don't mean the Operating System I mean Application software) Core speed is what you want over multi cores for the most part. That PDC 1.8 you have would be much faster on a better board overclocked than a C2D or C2Q on your board $ to performance wise unless you run apps that are multicore aware (which I dont think you do). Ignore any benchmark software when it comes to comparing them because most use all cores to test but that isn't a real world test unless your apps are using multi cores.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I said it once And I will say it again, The title of the thread isn't "should I OC my CPU".

This rig was never designed to OC. If it were, I wouldn't have bought the case I did. it only has room for one fan , which is installed. and due to the design, it can't exactly be modded for more fans.

so, I will say this one last time. this is not an OC box.


edit- for the record, C2Q cpus are supported by my board: http://processormatch.intel.com/Comp...ardname=dp35dp

[Mad_Professor]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

forget it guys, Rat's got it in his head. He is determine to get a Core2 chip no matter what we say, even if it defies logic and reasoning.


I will say it one more time, put it towards a new video card, at least it's interchangeable.

[shovenose]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

If you want raw speed get an SSD.
If you want to get higher FPS in games get a better graphics card.
If you want to get a better PC buy a new mobo, CPU, and Ram.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

forget it guys, Rat's got it in his head. He is determine to get a Core2 chip no matter what we say, even if it defies logic and reasoning.


I will say it one more time, put it towards a new video card, at least it's interchangeable.

no, I never said that. I did ask about graphics.

I didn't ask about OCing my system. that was may point of complaint

for your info, if I can find a decent graphics card w/o killing the bank, then I will go that route first. they key word being IF.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

Desktop Pentium Dual-Core have either a Allendale or a Wolfdale core.
Thus they ~are~ Core-2 architecture - they just aren't branded/advertised that way.
.