Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

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  • mrmazda
    MrMazda
    • Sep 2013
    • 115
    • USA

    #1

    Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

    My head is swimming from reading here off and on for several days about these. I've had more than a dozen mostly tower here for my own use or just passing through over several years beginning long after the extended warranty ran out. Right now I have 4 working (3 tower, 1 SFF), one that won't post (tower), and the subject SFF that shuts itself off not long after navigating a cleared CMOS and starting memtest86+ from a Knoppix CD. By removing the OEM cooler and fan and using a tower set in their place, it will run longer, but even that bigger heavier heat sink gets blistering hot pretty fast.

    I recapped my first (tower) 270 long before finding this forum, somewhere around the time I first found Carey Holzman's Abit cap article, probably more than five years ago. It's still working nicely. It's one of only 2 I've ever changed the 3 big Rubys on. The other, which still won't POST (A, C, D green, yellow B), I just did today, but that's a story for another day.

    It's the 3 1800uf 16v Rubys showing no evidence of swelling or leakage I haven't changed that I think this post is mostly about. This SFF with 2.4GHz SL6WF Northwood P4 is service tag 6XYGT31 (case sticker and BIOS), which from what I gather is near the border between the later batches and the bad Nichicon batches. It came to me with a nasty 2200uf 10v OST in the PS that I changed early on, before knowing OST's reputation, and a bunch of other OSTs in the PS, including the big 470uf 200v pair, so I've since quit using that PS at least until I can get the motherboard running stable, after which I can get rid of more PS OSTs. In the mean time I'm testing with a recapped Earthwatts 430 that behaves well in every system tried that works with other power supplies new or recapped.

    The biggest Nichicons on the motherboard (between card slots) were HM 1000uf 6.3v I forgot to check dates on before misplacing, and 4 a0332 HM 820uf 6.3v, since replaced with new HN. Everything higher uf is or was Rubycon. Biggest uf Nichicons remaining are 220. The others changed were the 9 1800uf 6.3v along the CPU socket (of which about half were swollen leakers), their two siblings by the 20 pin plug, and the about to burst 1500uf 6.3v near AGP and RAM slots. The 5 220uf 16v between the big Rubys and the 4-pin power plug are 85C Sanyos. The 680uf 10v near most 820s has the Matsushita symbol and looks OK.

    I looked fairly hard and could find no obvious evidence of any burnt components.

    I really would like this one SFF to be able to replace the working SFF I often use in case it decides to quit on me. One reason I even have these GX270s is they are among the last of the x86 machines with AGP slots. The GX280s and others newer have PCIe. Much of what I do is assuring Xorg and the DEs that run in it remain compatible with older hardware as they continue to evolve. Fewer working machines with AGP slots means more work, changing video cards and configuration settings to match different cards instead of changing machines, when working to pin blame or bisect regressions.

    So, with 8 of the caps Tomcat's kit contains not yet replaced, my big interests at this point are:

    1-is the hot CPU and shutdown what's more or less expected from a combination of poor PS impact on motherboard components, and 3 baked (but otherwise nice looking) original 1800uf 16v Rubycon MCZs surviving my partial recapping?
    2-Is there any reasonably easy place to probe what voltage the CPU is seeing in this condition (since a cheapskate Dell BIOS won't provide any such information) in the short time between power up and overheat shutdown?
    3-which caps not yet replaced, must I replace to get the CPU temp down, or in any event make it stop shutting down if CPU temp is not the reason for the shutdowns?
    4-is there likely some other problem part causing overheat that replacing more caps won't solve?
    5-which caps not yet replaced, not counting answer to #3, if any, should I replace?
    6-should I quit trying?

    Thanks for reading, and whatever answers can be offered!
  • kc8adu
    Super Moderator
    • Nov 2003
    • 8832
    • U.S.A!

    #2
    Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

    its an sff.
    those caps have been done a long time ago and are ALL shot.
    replace the rest and check back.
    another reason for a cpu to make too much heat is vcore too high.
    i have seen 1 sff heatpipe that leaked too.

    Comment

    • Jonny Accelerant
      Banned
      • Aug 2014
      • 205
      • USA

      #3
      Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

      Why do you think the shut down is caused by a too-hot CPU?

      Can you please restate your problem, and only your problem, because I'm not certain if we are only talking about just one computer.

      How long will the computer run in BIOS? It is said that BIOS runs the CPU to about 80% of max load. What is the CPU temp in BIOS, and what is it's rated max? Also, what is the CPU high-temp cut-off temperature?

      Are you using thermal compound between the CPU and HSF, and if so what is it. MOST PARTICULARLY get rid of any thermal tape if it came with it from the factory. I call that "insulation tape" as it prevents heat transfer.

      The too-high temp could be GPU, so rule that out.
      If the CPU temp is too high, the CPU fan should be running rpms to max first. Is the CPU fan even spinning?

      If we exclude "too high temps" from the possible causes of shut-down, this sounds like bad power which can be caused by bad caps. I cannot see how bad caps are going to affect how hot a CPU gets. CPU's get hot because they are either working (processing data), or because the HSF & fan is not removing the (normal) heat generated.

      Comment

      • SteveNielsen
        Retired Tech
        • Jun 2012
        • 2327
        • USA

        #4
        Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

        Just an FYI, GX270 motherboards do not support temperature sensing. Checking the CPU core temp is not possible.

        Comment

        • Jonny Accelerant
          Banned
          • Aug 2014
          • 205
          • USA

          #5
          Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

          Originally posted by SteveNielsen
          Just an FYI, GX270 motherboards do not support temperature sensing. Checking the CPU core temp is not possible.
          I bet that's been crippled in the POS Dell BIOS. What's the OEM of the motherboard, and what about flashing it to something that's not Dell?

          Comment

          • mrmazda
            MrMazda
            • Sep 2013
            • 115
            • USA

            #6
            Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

            kc8adu,

            Where does a SFF GX270 have a heat pipe?

            I asked about "any reasonably easy place to probe what voltage the CPU is seeing", on this board, because I know too much voltage can equate to too much heat. How is vcore any different? I can barely see in around those 3 big Rubys, much less get a probe in there while trying to see where I'm probing under a lighted magnifier at just the right distance to get these ancient eyes to focus.

            When you say "replace the rest", do you mean literally, or just above a certain value (e.g. Topcat kit's 680uf)? I've now replaced everything 680uf and up, plus the 5 85° 220uf 16v Sanyos by USB, sound and NIC ports (with 105° UCC KZM). I started this process sometime last year when it arrived here. I started with just the 11 1800uf MCZ Rubys (of which about half leaky and/or bloated; with Nich HN), the 1500uf MCZ Ruby by AGP & RAM slots (bloated; with Nich HM), the 2 bloated Nich 820uf HM a0332 between card slots (with 1000uf Nich HN; I didn't have any 820 short enough at that time), and the other 2 boated Nich HM 820uf a0332 (with Nich PJ). Today and yesterday for the Panasonic 680 I used Nich HN, for the remaining 2 1500 MCZ Rubys Nich HM, for the 3 big MCZ Rubys Rubycon MCZ, plus the above noted 220s. For those below 680 not yet disturbed I'd have to either use ancient Jackcons or Jamicons I bought a decade or more ago, or order what I need. The only Nichicons left on the board are a0335 220uf 6.3v.

            Jonny Accelerant,

            I agree with SteveNielsen's response to you here.

            I agree thermal tape seems more likely to block heat transfer than facilitate it, but it seems pasty compounds would have a similar effect. Nevertheless, the tape gets immediately replaced with compound every time I find tape under a heat sink. And before any cooler installation goes "final", I clean CPU and sink to ensure no debris gets captured to block full contact.

            Rule out GPU how? A GPU is part of every GX270 motherboard's chipset.

            Most Dell motherboards I've inspected can be identified as sourced from Foxconn, but nothing on this one has any name besides Dell anywhere I've been able to recognize.

            About "too-hot CPU":
            1-because the CPU got so hot so very quickly
            2-because some BIOS will shut a machine down without warning instead of letting a CPU temp get above some danger level
            3-because I hadn't replaced the 3 big Rubys yet when I wrote
            4-because excess voltage can result in excess heat generation

            The thread problem is about one SFF GX270 (service tag 6XYGT31). The CPU heat now seems tamed by the OEM heat sink and OEM 3-wire fan. The northbridge and southbridge chips barely get warm. It will go through BIOS setup, but little more. Trying to run Memtest either from Knoppix CD or UltimatebootCD, it turns off within a second or two of the program starting if it's been warmed up any by navigating BIOS setup after POST. It's HD was wiped when it got here. In its tray it ran on idle in BIOS setup more than 15 minutes before I took the tray off the bench and put it in its case to connect the rest of its normal cabling (PATA X 2, sound, remote ports).

            ---

            Both (recapped, non-Dell) power supplies I had been testing with run their fans full speed right from power up. I know all my other working Dells don't run the PS fan speed anywhere near as loudly. So I hooked up a GX260 PS. It's fan runs quiet. On first power up, fully cooled to room temp, I didn't need to digress into the BIOS first. Memtest then ran longer before the shutdown, but power on time was probably less than 2 minutes, maybe less than one. I let it cool a while, changed RAM sticks, and Memtest ran for 46 seconds before it shut itself down.

            Could those 2 PJs cause the shutdowns? The 1000s that replaced 820s? Original replacements already gone bad by delaying replacing the 3 big Rubys? Not replacing all the under 680uf caps?

            Comment

            • Sparkey55
              Badcaps Legend
              • Jan 2010
              • 1523
              • USA

              #7
              Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

              Have you checked the northbridge and southbridge for over heating?

              Comment

              • kc8adu
                Super Moderator
                • Nov 2003
                • 8832
                • U.S.A!

                #8
                Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

                look at the heatsink.see the copper tubes?
                post a pic.maybe you have a different unit than i am thinking of.

                Comment

                • SteveNielsen
                  Retired Tech
                  • Jun 2012
                  • 2327
                  • USA

                  #9
                  Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

                  I have a GX270 SFF here with no heatpipe.

                  I can get an idea of the proc temp with a temperature probe in between fins of the heat sink as close to the bottom I can get. Of course the core temp is going to be higher but it's at least a relative ball-park measurement.

                  Comment

                  • Jonny Accelerant
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 205
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

                    I see no reason to believe the computer has or ever had a heat problem. You have no empirical evidence that anything has gotten too hot. At this point you have a computer that will not stay running for a certain amount of time.

                    This thread shows the problem could be a setting in BIOS:

                    http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...70-258496.html

                    Comment

                    • SteveNielsen
                      Retired Tech
                      • Jun 2012
                      • 2327
                      • USA

                      #11
                      Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

                      That BIOS setting is not the problem. That thread shows that setting a Dell BIOS CPU speed to Compatible Mode slowed the CPU down enough for it to work. Compatible Mode is for troubleshooting. It does in fact indicate that an overheating CPU is quite possible.

                      He also said, "even that bigger heavier heat sink gets blistering hot pretty fast." So what do you consider empirical proof? It's fairly obvious the CPU is overheating.
                      Last edited by SteveNielsen; 09-02-2014, 10:10 PM.

                      Comment

                      • mrmazda
                        MrMazda
                        • Sep 2013
                        • 115
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

                        Originally posted by kc8adu
                        look at the heatsink.see the copper tubes?
                        post a pic.maybe you have a different unit than i am thinking of.
                        I don't see any copper anywhere, unlike the Arctic Freezer Pro 7s I put in systems they fit.
                        Originally posted by Jonny Accelerant
                        I see no reason to believe the computer has or ever had a heat problem. You have no empirical evidence that anything has gotten too hot. At this point you have a computer that will not stay running for a certain amount of time.
                        You mean besides the 9 (of 11 total) swollen/leaking 1800uf MCZ Rubycons it had when I got it? Or the longer time it will stay turned on with the bigger heat sink and fan?
                        This thread shows the problem could be a setting in BIOS:

                        http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...70-258496.html
                        It tried the compatible setting along with enabling Hyper-Threading, which defaults to off when I reset CMOS. Memtest reported 38MB/s for L1 and L2, no speed at all for main RAM, and was still only 1% complete on the first pass after 13 minutes WallTime. I changed BIOS setting back to normal, left HT on, and it shut off right as Memtest launched, like before.
                        Originally posted by SteveNielsen
                        That BIOS setting is not the problem. That thread shows that setting a Dell BIOS CPU speed to Compatible Mode slowed the CPU down enough for it to work. Compatible Mode is for troubleshooting. It does in fact indicate that an overheating CPU is quite possible.

                        He also said, "even that bigger heavier heat sink gets blistering hot pretty fast." So what do you consider empirical proof? It's fairly obvious the CPU is overheating.
                        I tried several other CPUs, thinking the CPU may have been damaged by excessive heat, resetting CMOS after each switch. The SL687 2.0GHz P4 shuts down on exit from BIOS setup. The SL6W4 2.4GHz Celeron wouldn't POST (3 diagnostic lights, ABC, stayed yellow). At this point I double checked with the original CPU, only to have it shut down yet again on starting Memtest. After that, another SL6WF I broke out of a known working tower GX270 just to test this I gave up on after it refused to light up a display even with all lights green, or not lighting all lights green, and ultimately finding the heat sink too hot to handle after several cycles of CPU R&R and CMOS resets. Before putting the original SL6WF back for an umpteenth time I put a 10" fan on the whole mess. Before this startup, I opened up the GX260 power supply my digital PS tester claimed to be good to see its huge caps were Rubycons, and all caps I could ID were Taicon, Rubycon or Matsushita. One more time booting, success getting throught POST and BIOS setup, but shut off starting up Memtest.

                        Does the motherboard need to be populated with RAM and CPU in order to validly check VR output. I presume the VR chips are the 8 that are the reason for the heat sink between 3 1800 16s and 9 1800 6.3s, and the only way to get a probe on them would be from the bottom of the board. I tried that way with a GX270 tower board that won't POST, and got readings mostly of around 0, or just under 1v, or 12.3 v, whilst the southbridge was getting a lot hotter than I remember being normal for a normally running GX270. I tried again with a CPU in socket but no RAM, and I got auto-ranging readings or around 0, 1.5v or 10v on the coils and socket side row, but then it shut off, and won't come back on more than about a half second. To ID them would mean desoldering and unscrewing their heat sink, a lot more work that maybe doesn't need doing if that info is already somewhere in this forum. I don't want to fry the subject board trying the same thing now that it seems a lot closer to making work than ever before since I got it.

                        What a time gobbler this is.

                        Comment

                        • BigTroll
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Sep 2010
                          • 1317
                          • LAMBDA SOND

                          #13
                          Re: Too Hot GX270 SFF CPU

                          my 270s still doing great i got a 3.4 northwood in mine with a 74gb raptor and the better copper heatsink it runs in my garage and runs nice and cool plus they don't take up much space.
                          My Computer: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, Asrock X370 Killer SLI/AC, 32GB G.SKILL TRIDENT Z RGB DDR4 3200, 500GB WD Black NVME and 2TB Toshiba HD,Geforce RTX 3080 FOUNDERS Edition, In-Win 303 White, EVGA SuperNova 750 G3, Windows 10 Pro

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