Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

[ben7]

My take is that they are OK actually.

The reason why we see them failed often is, I believe, because they have a small rated lifespan (2000 hours at 105C). So when they were used on motherboards, well, they work great for a while but then they go bad. I consider them a general-purpose low ESR series, because of the short rated lifetime.

What do you really think about them?

[mariushm]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

I disagree.

I just fixed the motherboard from my sister's system, a computer that's probably 3-5 years old but which was maybe turned on just a few hours a days or every other day.

See my two posts here on this page: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...24&page=25#490

She works 8-10 hours a day at his regular job on a computer or a laptop, sometimes she brings home the laptop and doesn't turn on this old system.. when she turns it on she just listens to some music or watches tv using the tv tuner, or composes some emails.

So you can't really say the system was anywhere close to 105c, the temperature is probably 50-60c around the capacitors, the systems is used very little... yet these capacitors died.

It's the chemistry in my opinion, they just went "ultra low esr" and screwed something up. I see a lot of KZE series capacitors in old power supplies, some running 24/7 for years, yet they're still fine.. but you can't say the same for KZG.

[ben7]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

I disagree.

I just fixed the motherboard from my sister's system, a computer that's probably 3-5 years old but which was maybe turned on just a few hours a days or every other day.

See my two posts here on this page: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...24&page=25#490

She works 8-10 hours a day at his regular job on a computer or a laptop, sometimes she brings home the laptop and doesn't turn on this old system.. when she turns it on she just listens to some music or watches tv using the tv tuner, or composes some emails.

So you can't really say the system was anywhere close to 105c, the temperature is probably 50-60c around the capacitors, the systems is used very little... yet these capacitors died.

It's the chemistry in my opinion, they just went "ultra low esr" and screwed something up. I see a lot of KZE series capacitors in old power supplies, some running 24/7 for years, yet they're still fine.. but you can't say the same for KZG.

Yes I do half-agree on what you say. However I haven't seen any proof that their chemistry is incorrect. Hard to tell.

[mockingbird]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

I think the post "KZG cap bulged sitting in the attic" makes me agree with mariushm.

If heat causes them to vent without any use whatsoever, then I think it is quite indicative of a faulty design.

I'm not saying -all- KZGs are defective in this precise manner. UCC may vary the quality from batch to batch. What I am saying is that KZG is meant to be an intentionally faulty series, and they are often used by manufacturers to effect planned obsolescence. A good case-in-point is the D-Link DIR-615 (Particularly the Cx revisions). Nice long-life small KY series caps for the small values and two 8mm KZG caps for the biggest caps. I think the intention is that the product behave erratically after the consumer has had *some* satisfaction out of it, and the Teapo caps in D-Link Adapters are analogs to the KZGs in the actual routers. Failing outright is not their intention, that would give D-Link too negative a reputation.

So is KZG absolute trash? Maybe, maybe not. That's the point. The product is inconsistent and should be avoided precisely because of that.

[Wester547]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

KZGs are terrible. They fail faster than 85*C (Japanese) capacitors do in the same positions (by the RAM, by PCI slots, etc, even with good cooling and low ripple voltages). There is definitely something askew with their electrolyte so a chemical process takes place even when no voltage is applied to them and that causes them to fail quickly, as stated before me. I would say Teapos aren't really comparable to KZGs in the sense that they have the opposite problem. I don't think anything is amiss with Teapo's electrolyte, just that the quality of raw materials is dreck in the aluminum foil, whereas KZGs are probably fine aside from their electrolyte. In fact... I think Teapos are less likely to fail just sitting on the shelf than KZGs are, assuming those Teapos aren't from an extremely bad batch (I'm not defending Teapo or recommending them for anything but extremely light tasks by that, though).

2,000 hours @ 105*C isn't an excuse. HM/HN capacitors from Nichicon (post-2005) last much longer than KZGs do under the same conditions and they are rated for practically the same specifications. The endurance tests aren't actually wear out tests and are done under fairly loose conditions. However, it does seem that Rubycon's MCZ series at least is rather sensitive to heat like KZG so I wonder if they have a similar issue... perhaps not to the same extent, but still (I don't think anyone has seen MCZs fail on the shelf, though).

Of course planned obsolescence was a good reason to keep them in production for so long. People who aren't cognizant of the problem KZGs have (and all capacitor series from Chemi-con that use the same electrolyte) will think that they're "good" just because they're from NCC so it's a good way to turn profits.

Yes I do half-agree on what you say. However I haven't seen any proof that their chemistry is incorrect. Hard to tell.

The only semi-tangible proof we have of problems with the chemical composition is the fact that they often fail on the shelf, fail without bulging, and the fact that Chemi-con specified some sort of new "resistive" electrolyte in the datasheet (what you also see in KZJ's datasheet)...

[linuxguru]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

I think there are original NCC-manufactured KZG and contract-manufactured KZG. There are differences in vent scoring, fonts, dimensions, etc. In particular, I have 820uF/6.3V KZG in 8mm that appear to be made in Japan (fine vents, sharp legend) that are longer and have more volume than some 1500uF/6.3V KZG, also 8mm diameter.

No idea about the longevity of the 820 uF KZG - I got nervous about using them in mobos after seeing the failure reports, but they may be OK for general-purpose, low-ripple applications. They haven't bulged after about 3+ years in storage.

The failed KZGs that I have seen have mostly been on VRM outputs, typically 3300uF/6.3V, and they've all been the non-Japanese KZGs (deeper, wider scoring on the vents, coarser fonts).

[Pentium4]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

Overall, I think they suck. Sometimes they can last quite a while but overall they are too unpredictable and seem to fail often without showing signs of failure. I had a 7300GT with just 4 KZG's on it. It ran in my file server for about 16 months and one of the caps failed...never under any load unless I needed to change something on the server. It got low ripple from a FSP PSU the whole time too.

And of course I've seen them fail plenty on motherboards. Pretty sad when you see OST outlive the KZG's on some boards.

[c_hegge]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

^
This. They are inconsistent. A good batch might last several years, but Fuhjyyus and CapXons in a PSU would outlast a bad batch.

[cheapie]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

I guess I have only had good batches then - I've never seen a KZG die.

[kc8adu]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

i wound up with a bunch from a bankruptcy auction of an oem.
thought they would be ok in cool locations like power supplies.
nope.
died in 6 months.
i made a video of me dumping 1000+ into the dumpster to reclaim the only valueable part.
the big tupperware container they were in!

[Pentium4]

Re: Whats your take on NCC's KZG series

i made a video of me dumping 1000+ into the dumpster to reclaim the only valueable part.
the big tupperware container they were in!

Care to share the video?