Failed MCZ rubycons

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

There is really no reason not to trust HMs (and HNs). Ok, they had a problem back then, but there is not a single incident of 2005 and later made HM/HNs failing.

*2006

[pfrcom]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

there is not a single incident of 2005 and later made HM/HNs failing.

Yes there is -> https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17506

[severach]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

I've seen spotty mass failures of Nichicon HM early 2005. Surely it took many weeks to clear out the faulty formula from every supply room. While I've only seen failures within the first 6 weeks of 2005 I only leave them alone after the 20th week of 2005.

Unfortunately after 2005 usage of HM is so rare that it's hard to tell how they stack up against the competition. Either that or they are so good that boards with them rarely show up on the service desk.

[ratdude747]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

I have heard reports of some 2005 ones having issues. Personally I chuck the 2005 ones as well just to be safe.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

There is really no reason not to trust HMs (and HNs). Ok, they had a problem back then, but there is not a single incident of 2005 and later made HM/HNs failing.

[UraBahn]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Erm, can we stop this before it erupts into a flame war? Please?

Some people like Nichicon, some don't. Some prefer Elna, others... would rather want to save money and/or use something else that may be closer to home or in stock.

Each to his own. Either way's fine by me. Just as long as nothing pops in huge numbers (or cause fires, data loss, hair loss, sterility etc.) I got no beefs with anyone's choice.

---

I was hoping to collect date codes on the borked MCZ. Perhaps some pics of the hardware and cases involved would be helpful too, so we can try to go somewhere with this thread. PSUs too would not be a bad idea to log as well.

I had a theory... given how spotty MCZ failures are, I wonder if, perchance, it's a certain combination of PSUs, motherboards with certain *specific* design/thermal factors, heat AND dirty wall power? It could be that in some cases, certain PSUs could be the culprit, while in other cases it's the motherboard having a subpar VRM, etc. And the other point brought up by LLLlllou is valid too. And... just perhaps... maybe Rubycon DID make a bum batch. That's what I want to find out.

Also, just because it's X big-name highfalutin company does NOT mean they won't try to cut corners at some point! *cough*Antec*cough*

[mockingbird]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

I wouldn't touch the HM(M) series, much like KZG or MCZ.
No point of risk when you can get something better like panasonic or sanyo.

I would absolutely trust HM just as much as Sanyo or Panasonic...

The cause of failure is due to the poor electrolyte used in the MCZs, and nothing else. Capacitors should be stronger than that.

How do you know? I still haven't seen the inside of the PSU.

[EIBM]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Where can you even get RJF? Their stuff aint easy to come buy. For the prices he's charging, you could have done a lot better just buying Nichicon HM/HN/HZ from the owner of this website...

ELNA is a large vendor, and their capacitors are used in a lot of high-end equipment. I wouldn't touch the HM(M) series, much like KZG or MCZ.
No point of risk when you can get something better like panasonic or sanyo.

It's possible that IBM under speced the caps in those locations. It might have called for something in the HZ range, and rather than go with polymers, they just figured the MCZ would be able to handle the abuse. Even a Rubycon can only take so much abuse before it fails.

Absolutely not. The MBZs (which are much larger than the MCZs) are set to take most of the heavy load, and they are not going bad at all!

System board manufacturers design the boards in a very specific manner. If the MCZs failed catastrophically (along with the cruddy KZGs!), yet the MBZs and other rubycons are fine... something is wrong with those series of capacitors.
The cause of failure is due to the poor electrolyte used in the MCZs, and nothing else. Capacitors should be stronger than that.

[UraBahn]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Perhaps. Oh well, I don't really care that much, at least it's a US seller so I won't be waiting four weeks for them just to arrive in port. Besides, I have my reasons for going with ELNA here (mainly curiousity).

[mockingbird]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

For the prices he's charging, you could have done a lot better just buying Nichicon HM/HN/HZ from the owner of this website...

[UraBahn]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Where can you even get RJF? Their stuff aint easy to come buy.

I am purchasing mine from eBay. abelectronics I think is the seller.

They LOOK legitimate, but we'll see when I get them.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Wait a second... are you saying that the 02-05 date codes are fine and that only the 01 date codes are bad for Nichicon HM/HN capacitors?

No, any datecode can be good or bad
It depends on what shift or line produced them.
There is no way to make the distinction visually

[mockingbird]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Where can you even get RJF? Their stuff aint easy to come buy.

[UraBahn]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Nope. RJF is close, but still not good enough.

I see. They DO seem pretty close to MBZ. Anyway, in a slightly unrelated note, RJF are likely good enough to replace old 1996-vintage Tayehs on this P1 motherboard I got me mitts on from the thrift store at least. (The Tayehs look fine but they are old, and a known crap brand, so I will pro-actively replace them before I sell this board.)

In any case I won't be buying any MCZ or KZG.

[LLLlllou]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Normally rubycon is my favourite, but not when it comes to the mysterious MCZ series.

A friend of mine happened to always be talking about the MCZ series and how thermally sensitive they were. Well I ended up taking home quite a few suffering thinkcentres which had MCZs in them, generously too..

It's possible that IBM under speced the caps in those locations. It might have called for something in the HZ range, and rather than go with polymers, they just figured the MCZ would be able to handle the abuse. Even a Rubycon can only take so much abuse before it fails.

[mockingbird]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

How about Elna RJF then? Those seem to be in the ballpark of MBZ judging by a cursory glance at the data sheet.

Nope. RJF is close, but still not good enough.

[Wester547]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Note how only the 0143 datecode caps have bloated, the 0213 are fine!

Wait a second... are you saying that the 02-05 date codes are fine and that only the 01 date codes are bad for Nichicon HM/HN capacitors?

[Per Hansson]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

If you don't mind me asking, a good batch does of course mean post-2005 date codes (since I imagine everything from 2001-2004 must be bad ^^; ), right?

Nope, just one shift or line produced bad caps if I understood it right.
Can be very clearly seen in this picture from an industrial PC:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1399823020

Note how only the 0143 datecode caps have bloated, the 0213 are fine!

[UraBahn]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

Sanyo has no electrolytic equivalent to MCZ. WG is an equivalent to MBZ/HM

Good to know! Now I know exactly what to put in the place of blown pre-2005 Nichicon HM, and maybe some other caps too *cough*TK and OST*cough*.

Nichicon HN is a good replacement... They will no longer be in production shortly.

Daah, figures.

Speaking of which, what's the consensus on Rubycon's "newer" ZLH series?

[UraBahn]

Re: Failed MCZ rubycons

UB, I grew up north of the Flier's Club and south of Steven's Bridge. I attended WHS at both the College Street campus and the West Street campus. To me it's the "new" campus, but, well, you might know when it was built.

Oh yeah, I actually grew up in Western Washington (near Tacoma) but I moved to Woodland last December. I am very much liking the weather here, MUCH less rainy than in Western Washington.