Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

[furballi]

I have the specs on the KZJ series. How do these caps compared to the Matsushita/Panasonic FL? The KZJs are rated for 2000 hours.

TIA

[willawake]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

ask your vendor to provide spec sheet for FL and we can compare. It is not listed at Panasonic site.

[willawake]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL



hahaha bingo, finally found something official about FJ

[furballi]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

It appears that FJ and FL are made in Malaysia.

Older ECS NF4 754 boards come with Matsushita FLs, while newer units are equipped with Chemicon KZJs. Perhaps the KZJs may be the better choice? No chance of getting specs for ECS.

I'm not sure if the KZJs are made in Japan anymore.

[Rainbow]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

Wow, ECS using quality caps

[linuxguru]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

So there are real Panasonic FF and FJ? It still smells fishy, but I've seen a lot of these around now. No mention of HFA, though. It also shows FC and FK as being made at both Japan and Malaysia, so that may account for the quality variations - though I haven't seen a single failure in either.

I'm just guessing - the ones with the fine, shallow scorings on the T-vent are Japanese, while the ones with the wide, deeper scorings are Malaysian. I've seen the former types in original Technics equipment sourced from Japan, so they're probably Japanese.

[willawake]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

yes it is an official panasonic document


it is indeed rather irregular. i guess FF, FL, FJ are for asia market only. perhaps they are sold at cheaper price also. we are starting to see panasonic more on motherboards so it looks like they have become more interested in that sector.

there is a possibility that they could have been designed in malaysia also, they do have R&D dept there. but if you check the PEDMA site they only have 3 chip type electrolytics on offer there?

[kc8adu]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

the fc and fm i buy by the 1000 pack are from malaysia and japan.
this varies weekly on my orders from digikey.yet to see any from china.

[yanz]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

Well i have in my hand some panasonic FF and FJ caps 2200uF 6.3v.

FF -> Date code 33IIITR -> year 2003 | month 3 | week 3rd | line code T | prod date 18
FJ -> Date code 18ITW -> year 2001 | month 8 | week 1st | line code T | prod date 23


.. if that really tell something.

FF -> 10x25 mm (approx.)
FJ -> 10x21 mm (approx.)

They are each = ~ $0.25

[yanz]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

I still have yet to find about the longetivity of FJ caps. They are abudantly available here, range from 1000uF to 2700uF in 10mm 6.3v-16v.

If they are as sturdy as, say, Nichicon HE/PW or Chemicon LXZ/LXY/KY/KZE, then that is a good thing. They are not pricey and would be excellent for PSU and mobo recaping. Also I have yet to know about the impedance/ESR value and permissive ripple current of this caps compared to FM series.

But still we are blind about them. I would avoid using FJ if possible for PSU recapping as it would be disaster in the future if this caps is brittle. I also examine some mobos that uses FJ, it seems they use it in either input or output vrm (someone pls confirm this to me if you can).

Nobody can't undesrtand how much this caps really tempting me, but its too often i have to refuse the temptation. I can only take a risk if the hardwares i fix is mine.


As Topcat's principle that he said too many times, dont mess around with cheap quality stuff. But sometimes we dont have that much choices that if only we can get more info then the decision would be easier. Is this cheap caps really "cheap"? What is the mistery behind it? As dark as its black color i guess..

It's really true that knowledge/information is power.

Now if only we could get some info directly from the mobo maker why they using the FJ caps lately, or if someone from us asking Panasonic directly with email...

[willawake]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

i have asked from panasonic malaysia for the specs. they did not reply. it would be better to make request from asia preferably to a distributor.

we know they are genuine so it is unlikely that they will be crap. it would be useful if the ESR could be measured. If they are very low esr then likely to be low endurance, i think.

perhaps they are only FM with different label for asia market at cheap price.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

Panasonic FL and FJ match Ruby MBZ for Ripple and have better ESR.
~ About 1/2 way between MBZ and MCZ for ESR.

They closely match the NIC Components NRSJ series.

[ I don't have a complete data sheet for FL but I found the specs on 1000/16v 8mm and 1800/6.3v 8mm. They match FJ's exactly on everything. (Ripple, ESR, length, lead pitch, Leakage Current, Life, Temp,,, everything...) - Marketing thing maybe? ]

Panasonic FK is between UCC KY and KZE.
Close to KY for ripple but about 1/2 way between for ESR.

I haven't found anything at all on the Pany FF series.

.

[linuxguru]

Re: Chemicon KZJ vs Matsushita FL

Panny FJ is lower than Ruby MBZ on ESR? That's kinda nice, and it also supports the earlier conjecture that it's aqueous electrolytic. That fact, together with its very compact size, suggests that its endurance will not exceed 2000 hours. YMMV, but it's probably OK for certain mobo bypass applications including VRM O/Ps, but borderline risky for PSUs.

However, there's an 1800/16v in FJ in size ~10x20, which is just right for recapping Channel-Well/Antec/Deer, and a whole bunch of SFF and 1U PSUs.

It also sounds crisp for supply bypassing for integrated low-end/PC audio. I need to try it out in an LM3886 and/or TDA7294 gainclone to try to get a better handle on this. YMMV, but my first impression is that FJ sounds crisp, FK sounds clean, and FC sounds clean and sweet - maybe all these are artefacts of how long they've been in storage and whether they need re-forming, etc.

I also noticed that all FJs I've seen to date have wide, deep scoring lines on the vent, similar to the ones previously seen on Panasonic FC Malaysian production. I've seen a new bag dated 2007 of Malaysian Panasonic FC with the wide scoring lines, so that confirms that FC production is now in Malaysia. Some older FCs that I've seen (in Technics audio equipment, as well as in caps in my possession) have the shallow, thin scoring on the vent that seems to be exclusive to Panasonic Japan. These are getting harder to find, so it seems that Panasonic is shifting (or has shifted) FC production to Malaysia.