Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

    Originally posted by tleu8472 View Post
    What uF and voltage ratings should I use to add/replace the secondary filtering caps? It does have resistors instead of coils - will this suffice for what will probably be a 250W max load system?
    Make sure to use good brand name caps.

    This is what I suggest:

    3.3v----3300uf 6.3v
    12v-----4700uf 16v
    5v------3300uf 6.3v
    -5v-----470uf 16v
    -12v----470uf 16v
    5vsb----1000uf 6.3v or 2200uf 6.3v
    Muh-soggy-knee

    Comment


      Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

      Correct ESR is probably more of a concern, with a cheap PSU, capacitors with ESR too low can actually make ripple and noise worse.

      I guess you should base that off the original capacitors.
      "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
      -David VanHorn

      Comment


        Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

        Originally posted by tleu8472 View Post
        It does have resistors instead of coils - will this suffice for what will probably be a 250W max load system?
        Not at all. The resistors do not replace the coils and have absolutely nothing to do with the ripple suppression. They are there to provide a small 'dummy' load for the PSU, since SMPSs need a minimum load in order to start. If you want to improve the ripple suppression, you will need to add the coils. You can scavenge them from dead PSUs.

        As for the ratings of the caps to use, ben7 did provide good ratings, but those are total capacitance. so on the 12V, for example, you could use two 2200uF caps. I'm pretty sure that PSU had room for two caps on the 12V rail.

        Probably go with Panasonic FC or Nichicon PW series for this PSU.
        I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

        No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

        Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

        Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro

        Comment


          Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

          Also, replace those cheapy "HEC" primary caps, with two 470uf 200v.
          Muh-soggy-knee

          Comment


            Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

            I'd actually say "don't bother" replacing the primary caps on such a cheap poor quality psu. The ones that are now are probably good enough.

            Also, probably not really recommended to go up to 3300uF on 3.3v, might be too much for such psu. 2200uF is probably more than enough.

            Use 10v rated caps for 3.3v and 5v, from a series with not so low esr, like Panasonic FC, Nichicon PW etc

            Comment


              Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

              King World Enterprises, Proprietary Limidet(?!). No Serviceable Components- Inside. Well, they're right about that at least. The poor tiny transformer even says "YME" on it! In fact, it looks smaller than the one out of the 50W PlayStation 2 I disassembled a while ago. The upside? I have another 80mm fan to add to my collection and a PCB with 18 caps waiting to pop outside on 240V.

              This thing struggled to power an office PC consisting of a single 10GB Quantum Fireball HDD, a CD-ROM drive, a floppy and a mainboard which didn't even have an AGP slot (the BIOS chip sits in its place). The only add-on card in fact was a 16-pin 56k modem, which was in its own port, blocking the topmost PCI slot. Everything on this PC was (presumably) factory, right down to the single stick of PC133 SDRAM and 800MHz Celeron. The 3 PCI slots and single ISA slot were seemingly never used, and the fan is almost spotless, no dust at all.

              Upon plugging in my trusty old 110W Delta PSU, the board came to life immediately, defaulting to May 26 2001.

              When I had found this PC, it had minor water damage, there was rust on the rear ports, and the cables had been cut - ATX/Molex cables, even the cables for the LEDs on the front panel and the CD-ROM audio cable (the HDD/floppy cables weren't touched however). Additionally, someone had obviously thrown it around as the case was missing the front panel and was slightly bent, along with the floppy and CD drive being trashed (the tray was completely ripped out!).

              Admittedly, the case itself was made of such thin, flimsy metal that I could cut it with tin snips, it wasn't aluminum though since it was magnetic. I haven't yet tried the hard drive, however the floppy somehow still works after being straightened back out. There are no markings on the board saying what it is, but it is most definitely a variant of this board, the only difference being a 32-pin socketed AMI BIOS being in place of the QFP chip on that page, and the fact that my board has an ISA slot.

              The mainboard's caps are a mixture of G-Luxon LZ, SM and SX. Surprisingly, none are bloated unlike the PSU which uses the usual Chinese crap like JEE (primaries), HEC and even Rulycon in this case (the two bloated caps around the 5V rail, and the rest of the black general purpose caps). Also of note, check out the middle "FET" strapped to the heatsink!

              The PSU also had one inhabitant, which seemed to be a small redback/widow spider of some sort (however it had no red markings, and the abdomen was only 1/8" or 3mm in size).
              Attached Files

              Comment


                Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                OMG, dual-diode treatment The transformer really seems to be good for 100 W at most.
                Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                Comment


                  Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                  Mmmm Rulycon... They fail without bloating most of the time, they just dry out, so i wouldn't be surprised that those are at fault for the demise of this PSU. Not that it's worth anything other than scavenging for parts.
                  Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                  Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                  A working TV? How boring!

                  Comment


                    Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                    I wonder what the schottky's are capable of in that... and if its fan is half-decent... as well as the switching transitor(s)... I'm willing to bet that transformer is fake too..... even the values on the label look underpar for a 250W (and they themselves are obviously lies). IMO. that's more like a 75W PSU (continuously)... I'm also willing to bet that it's less than 60% efficient.

                    EDIT: In that case, we're looking at a 50-60W continuous PSU... maybe even less...
                    Last edited by Wester547; 07-25-2012, 07:16 PM.

                    Comment


                      Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                      The thingy is, 75 W was more than enough for most PIII systems…got here an HP Brio BA410 system with 80 W high-quality PSU inside
                      Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                      Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                      Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                      Comment


                        Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                        ...Oh Deer.

                        If you add up the values on the rails you get 256.2W, so at least they were reasonably close with the addition. The HD30D40PT is a 30A part, presumably serving the 3.3 and 5V rails, I'd say that's within the spec given. I can't read the number on the rearmost diodes but if that's for 12V it looks reasonable for a 10A part, although given the way the diodes-on-a-bracket are mounted maybe they're for 12V...

                        The transformer is probably good for 100W. I have a 95W laptop AC adapter and its transformer is qutie a bit smaller.

                        Comment


                          Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                          Wow!

                          Whats up with the burn marks in the second pic?

                          To me, it looks like two caps are bulging on the secondary, one rulycon and another that I don't know of.
                          Muh-soggy-knee

                          Comment


                            Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                            That would have made for a pretty good fireworks display
                            I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

                            No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

                            Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

                            Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro

                            Comment


                              Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                              Originally posted by b700029
                              I have a 95W laptop AC adapter and its transformer is qutie a bit smaller.
                              Are AC adapters honestly capable of doing their rated wattage? They don't even have fans and get even hotter than PSUs do. Not to mention they're obviously much tinier, and it sounds like they have notably smaller transformers... of course, they wouldn't need to do their rated wattage given how little power a notebook draws, but I'm just curious is all. And usually, if you add up every value for every rail on a PSU label, you'll come up with around 50W-100+W more than the "maximum" or "continuous" rating on the label (though I'm sure that's common knowledge here), since not all rails can of course do their labeled rating (lucidly rated at each rail by itself) when combined.

                              And that "King World" must have a very weak switching transistor.

                              Comment


                                Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                Originally posted by Wester547 View Post
                                Are AC adapters honestly capable of doing their rated wattage? They don't even have fans and get even hotter than PSUs do.
                                Yes, most brand name ones are. It's only ONE voltage and it's usually 12v or higher, so a low number of Amps.

                                For example, in the psu discussion thread I posted a HP adapter and its insides and it's a 18.5v @ 3.5A (65w) model - for such voltage/current combo there's no need for a big transformer.

                                Heat is an issue long term as it can dry out the caps but the temperature usually stabilizes at a certain point so there's no problem with them. Also, the laptops don't really use the maximum the adapters can handle ex this 65w adapter probably averages 35-40 watts throughout the laptop use.

                                Comment


                                  Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                  Most of the original ones can probably do their ratings, but I don't know about some of the cheap fleabay replacements.
                                  I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

                                  No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

                                  Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

                                  Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro

                                  Comment


                                    Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                    Originally posted by c_hegge View Post
                                    Most of the original ones can probably do their ratings, but I don't know about some of the cheap fleabay replacements.
                                    True, as can be seen here: http://electricstuff.co.uk/acadapter.html

                                    Comment


                                      Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                      I worry a bit about my Toshiba's power adaptor though. There are no vents, and the thing gets damn hot under full load, in fact they even have a warning label on it about it getting hot.

                                      It's the original part but the OEM is AcBel, so I'm a bit sceptical about what brand capacitors they've used, considering the AcBel from my Power Mac was mostly full of crappy Teapo.

                                      Problem is, it's all welded shut, no screws. I don't really want to cut it open until I can find a way to get it back together again nicely. Duct tape works but looks horrible.
                                      "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                                      -David VanHorn

                                      Comment


                                        Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                        Originally posted by mariushm View Post
                                        I read that before... scary. I don't think "105C" is the honest thermal limit of a capacitor though... I always thought "105C" and "85C" were the rated limits of how much you can let a capacitor burn in an abuse test (how much ripple it can take) of 2,000 hours or so without going out of spec, which I don't think is the same thing as saying how long it will last under a certain temperature (which if I'm not mistaken is not unveiled due to legal stipulations).

                                        Originally posted by Agent24 View Post
                                        I worry a bit about my Toshiba's power adaptor though. There are no vents, and the thing gets damn hot under full load, in fact they even have a warning label on it about it getting hot.

                                        It's the original part but the OEM is AcBel, so I'm a bit sceptical about what brand capacitors they've used, considering the AcBel from my Power Mac was mostly full of crappy Teapo.

                                        Problem is, it's all welded shut, no screws. I don't really want to cut it open until I can find a way to get it back together again nicely. Duct tape works but looks horrible.
                                        AC adapters will naturally get hot if you run your laptop at full speed (100% CPU speed) as it doesn't help that notebook CPUs get very hot at full load... AC adapters also get much hotter when going through charge cycles as opposed to staying at 100% (when the notebook is on, that is, which is why I recommend only charging your laptop when it's off).

                                        I find it helps to keep the AC adapter on the floor and not on a shelf or something like. And it's likely the AcBel AC adapter has Teapo's as well (not sure if there would be room for much variety capacitor wise in an AC adapter). Though Teapos should do okay as long as they don't get hot in such an operating condition. One of my family's old Toshiba laptops also has a 75W (15V * 5A = 75W, 2.0A input rating) AcBel AC adapter and after 13,000 hours of use and 12,000 power cycles it's still going. Granted, I don't let it get hot, but I'm not sure of its history heat wise. I've also heard that there are little rubber feet that hide the screws on AC adapters, that you can peel off, though I don't know if that's the case with yours.
                                        Last edited by Wester547; 07-26-2012, 12:04 AM.

                                        Comment


                                          Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                          ^
                                          Teapos are gonna get pretty toasty in an AC adapter.
                                          I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

                                          No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

                                          Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

                                          Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X