Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

[Wester547]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

For their customers' sake, I hope Corsair is acquiring genuine NCC capacitors.

They usually used LTEC on the secondary side (which are about on par with CapXon in terms of quality from my experience).

LTEC's general purpose capacitors do have a penchant for drying up very fast with no discernible cause (similar to 4mm-8mm Teapos). However, IMO, their low ESR capacitors are MUCH better than CapXon. Yes LTEC capacitors of all kinds fail enough to be considered bad but if you compare the ratio of failed LTECs to failed CapXons there is no comparison. CapXon fail very fast in well cooled and ventilated equipment whereas Delta have proven that LTECs can last if kept cool enough, at least for a while. But that doesn't go without saying that CapXons are commonly found bad because they're (unfortunately) a very popular choice of capacitors in OEM equipment.

nice, KZH with heatsinks both sides.
i wonder how long they will last like that.

Hard to say. I say that because if you read this thread, in a DPS-800GB, it didn't take long for a KZH on the -12V rail to blow its bung out and halt the PSU's operation (at the bottom of the page). That sounds similar to the way KZGs and KZJs fail. Also, if you look at this thread you'll see a 1000uF 16V 8x20 Chemi-con KZM bulge and the other 1000uF 16V 8x20 Chemi-con KZGs (on the VRM input of a Socket 754 board) look visibly okay (though a couple 6.3V ones failed as usual, and KZM is supposed to be the "long life" version of KZH). I know a couple failures isn't much to go by but knowing Chemi-con's history with KZG, KZJ, and all capacitor series equivalent and lower from them in terms of ESR... it also could have just been that the OP's PSU was bad as well, and the fact that all those VCORE high capacitors are right up against two heatsinks. Or it could be bad seals (why they fail without bloating often). Chemi-con claims, in their datasheets, that their KY, KZE, KZG, and KZJ series of capacitors all use the same "special, low resistivity" electrolyte, yet we all know that KZG and KZJ have a bad formula, but never see KYs and KZEs fail like that ever (KZHs were claimed to have used a "unique water base electrolyte" - may as well be the same thing).

I'm not trying to knock Chemi-con or call out KZHs as unreliable as I have never seen any fail myself. Chemi-con do generally produce excellent quality capacitors.

EDIT: The KZM might be a replacement for a bad KZG but it still kind of looks to me like it's bulging in the second picture which is why I brought it up. It might just be the picture, though.

[User]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Quite honestly, I was surprised as well, but I sincerely hope it was not just my luck. There has been quite a few discussions on various forums regarding Corsair cutting corners. Perhaps they finally got the message? who knows...

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Niiiiiiiice!!! Hopefully, corsair quietly changed (they never specifically said they did, though), or maybe they chop and change on them depending on what they have in stock, and you just got lucky.

btw, that's the RM750. It never did use CapXon, since the RM750 and 850 were made by a different OEM (Chicony). They usually used LTEC on the secondary side (which are about on par with CapXon in terms of quality from my experience). Delta often gets away with using LTEC, but they fail a lot for everyone else.

EDIT: No, the Chicony-built RM series PSUs are now discontinued. Corsair uses CWT for all RM series models now.

[stj]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

nice, KZH with heatsinks both sides.
i wonder how long they will last like that.

[User]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

I hate to dig up an old thread, but Corsair's new RM650 and RM550 use almost entirely CapXon on the output (although the 5vsb has NCC). The worst part is, it's fanless for the first 250W or so

Yeah Old thread, but the RM no longer uses Crapxon and Lshit. It looks like the new revision using 100% UCC caps, both for primary and secondary. Also the manufacturing looks way different now, perhaps someone else is making them for Corsair now.

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

It lasts more if you are not harsh on it, and that's what they rely on. Even most Bluestorms II (and their OEM versions) lasted 4-5 years on average.

[CapSwapper]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

all Corsair care about is the bottom line. CrapXon and the other crap cap makers are the same way. they will cut every corner to make a profit. If you are lucky to get a cap that won't leak or explode the maximum life is only 2 or 3 years. I pulled too many of those crap caps out of devices to know never use them. I never in my life pulled a bad Nichicon or Panasonic. no way I'm going to plug anything with a Crapxon cap into my brand new motherboard. they could have at least but a few good caps on the secondary. did they ALL have to be CrapXon

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Actually, it doesn't that much. They all expect customers to not load it to full power, and most of them do not. People who buy this cheap stuff are the people who believe all those manufacturers etc. telling them to buy those paper watts, and they do so no harm done in the end.

Problem is if somebody sometimes loads it to max. And the rest is problem of something else than bad caps as even these crapxons will handle those 2-3 years of moderate use and than warranty expires.

People who know how good PSU looks like and who buy such know they can run it at 100 % of nominal power continuous 24/7, and there won't be a problem.

[CapSwapper]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

they did a little better on revision 2.3. they use a 220uF United Chemi-Con on the primary now. But everything else on the secondary is still CrapXon
I only paid $15 after the rebate but still don't understand why these companies continue to use those crap caps. It just causes more headaches and lost revenue from RMA's and DOA's. If the price was $25 after the rebate it's still a great deal. maybe use the extra $10 to put in better caps? The total cost of the replacement caps I bought is around $10

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Well, as I said, polymers are probably one, maybe more levels above their crappy wet electrolytics but nothing is confirmed so far. On the other hand, bad polymers from worst of the worst manufacturers has already been reported here, on some graphics I think.

[Jesper]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

For example, here is the review to this page

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/AX860i/4.html

Precisely in this sample were used CapXon caps on +12V rail!!! Its amazing
This is the first review where I only saw CapXon caps, another was on this page

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_ax860i_psu_review,1.html

It is the same as in the first review up.

In these reviews already been found by Nichicon (FPCAP solid polymer capacitors) to +12V rails!!! See their:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=317

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1610/pg1/corsair-ax860i-digital-power-supply-review-introduction.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5035/corsair_ax860i_860w_80_plus_platinum_digital_power_supply_review/index.html

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/psu/47618-corsair-ax860i-digital-atx-power-supply/

http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/recenze/corsair-ax860i-ve-znameni-vysoke-kvality-platinove-ucinnosti/strana/0/2

The only thing I need to know the best from someone more interested to me this my theory confirmed.

The only thing I need to know the best from someone more informed the company Corsair to me this confirmed my theory. From Corsair used the caps from CapXon only in the first sample, and subsequently moved to replace higher quality caps from Nichicon. Will be better than a detailed look at all review dates, because it kinda makes sense in sequence data. For if they actually used a higher grade of caps as the CapXon, so I should not worry that i buy a product that will contain the poor caps.

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Nichicon are high-quality japanese caps, C(r)apXon is PoS. Possibly only their polymer caps are better, there is chance of them being equaly good as japanese wet electrolytics, but we will have to see, these polymers are not long enough on market to see if they fail or not.

It is actually a good question which revision uses what, if there is even any order in that. I went through couple reviews, all from november 2012 till january 2013 used japanese caps but Xbitlabs got at least a single crapxon in april:

[Jesper]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Hello all
I am new member on this forum.
I have some questions about Corsair and their power supplies units of ,,AXi,, Series.
I want to buy Corsair AX 860W 860i for my next upgrade (GTX 780 SLI) but I am concerned that this a good brand to start using poor Capacitors.
I now have in my pc also model from Corsair AX 750W, I do not know exactly what were the components used and the capacitors in its production, but during all four years I was no problem with the stability of my PC.
On the Internet I saw some pictures from the foreign review, where they were used by capacitors from CapXon (only two reviews) , I've seen it in other capacitors is used by Nichicon (FPCAP solid polymer capacitors). What I read on the internet resources Corsair, namely a set AX, AXi are manufactured by Flextronics who seem to use these less quality capacitors from CapXon. They really CapXon capacitors from the poor? How's the quality of their Nichicon capacitors? I learned that CapXon Caps were used only in the first samples products. Is this really true or false? These are quality products from Corsair down? I will not regret it if I buy AX860i and I'll be there Capacitor from CapXon? Because I want to get for my money quality source and not some piece of junk with poor quality capacitors from CapXon! I have a big dilemma in this, I would be pleased if it were indeed true that corsair stop using caps for CapXon poor, and only caps for Nichicon. The Nichicon Caps are have better quality ? I need find how to solved issue for my dilemma. Sorry for my english , is not good. Thanks for any good ideas.

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Capxon caps are especially chosen by Corsair because they know they will fail. They don't want a PSU out in the field for more than a year or two.

They do have a 5 year warranty on them, so it's in their interest that they last at least that long. Jonny's argument is that the design produces so little ripple that it won't stress them. I still think that they could be underestimating just how bad CapXon can be.

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

It'll probably last longer than 2 years, it's true that ripple is by design being driven down, but still - they will fail sooner rather than later.

[mockingbird]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Gentlemen,

Capxon caps and their likes are not used to cut costs per unit per se, but rather to effect planned obsolescence.

I'd imagine that bulk quantities of Capxon caps don't cost that much less than bulk quantities of UCC KY or KZx series caps usually seen in higher-end PSUs. Capxon caps are especially chosen by Corsair because they know they will fail. They don't want a PSU out in the field for more than a year or two.

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

No, but KitGuru does (http://www.kitguru.net/components/po...pply-review/5/)


http://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/up..._3445_DxO1.jpg

It has NCC on the 5vsb, but those are definitely CapXon on the far left

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

They use Taicon IIRC, there are some links and images here showing AX line with Taicon.

I got VS450 on my table fileld with AiShi(t), CrapXon and Teapo. But if they (or, not them directly rather than their suppliers which they can blame ) went down to CrapXon and Ltec even on the pricier models, than they are just trying to be viewed as PoS producing manufacturer…

Anyway, my questino for c_hegge stands: got pics?

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Well, the greenish colour certainly looks much like that of Samxon GF. I guess they could also be Taicon, but that's not exactly typical of Hipro either.

Looks like they may be Taicon and Ltec caps, like Delta.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

The conflict of interest in him reviewing other companies' products would not be any less than for reviews of Corsair's products.