WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

[mmu]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

The Query button actually helps a lot in TeboView.
Still not sure how the data is layed out in the layer sections, I'm still missing something.

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Thanks, this one runs, but doesn't help much.
The decompiled version doesn't have much info, just tons of hex :-)

The developer is quite stringent with his cleaning up of the binary to make sure there's nothing easy there for you to use. I should be more like that

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

The Query button actually helps a lot in TeboView.
Still not sure how the data is layed out in the layer sections, I'm still missing something.

Are you able to reliably jump to the end of the layers down to the start of the network names yet?

I'm hoping that the ID->NetworkName translation data isn't in the layers, that would be a pain.

Any idea what all the "Breakwater" and "Sensor" information might be after the network names and before the part definitions?

EDIT: Thanks for mentioning the "query" facility, for some reason I didn't initially seem to have that tab/window showing up when I clicked on things with the query, but after resetting the program it now shows, so that's great, a good bit of information there to be gathered!

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Network names in the system appear to be 0-based indexed items. If you click on the various pads/areas the network name has the index in brackets after ie, gnd(0)

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Part header fields for "height", "part type" determined, the UID string I wasn't sure about appears to be an internally generated "serial" string as well.

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Found all the part types that are internal to TeboView

PART TYPE field
value	 | description
0		 IC
1		 DIODE
2		 TRANSISTOR
3		 RESISTOR
4		 RESISTOR NETWORK(SI)
5		 CAPACITOR
6		 CAPACITOR NETWORK(SI)
7		 ZENER
8		 LED
9		 JUMPER
10		 BATTERY
11		 MASK
12		 RELAY
13		 FUSE
14		 CHOKE
15		 CRYSTAL
16		 SWITCH
17		 CONNECTOR
18		 TEST POINT
19		 TRANSFORMER
20		 POTENTIOMETER
21		 MECHANICAL
22		 RESISTOR NETWORK(DI)
23		 RESISTOR NETWORK(SB)
24		 RESISTOR NETWORK(DB)
25		 CAPACITOR NETWORK(DI)
26		 CAPACITOR NETWORK(SB)
27		 CAPACITOR NETWORK(DB)
28		 STRAP
29		 FUDICIAL
30		 UNKNOWN / END

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Bit of an important breakthrough here.... the UINT32 I thought was the network number, I suspect it's actually a PAD INDEX, so the pad array is instead where we'll find the network name.

I was tweaking values in the pin-index sequence of a part and noticed when I changed the UINT32 value to other existing values, the numerical index of that pin would appear in the respective pad.

See the image attached.

So in a way we've found that there is indeed an intermediate/translation table but it's a "PAD" array, and in there we'll find hopefully our network ID... now just to find that array :|

NOTE/EDIT: Changing the value only changes the position for the display of the string, it's not changing the network or other details of the pad, so the index is just to point to the pad structure where to put the string, as opposed to changing which pad is *associated* with the pad.... so there may be yet another table.

[mmu]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Ah cool.
Last night I managed to parse the first layer of NSB241R10.tvw until the next one.
Still not sure what the first int after the colors are, but after the D-code definitions (ended abruptly with 0,1 as w,h) are listed the pads, lines, surfaces… with a count and the content if count isn't 0.

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Ah cool.
Last night I managed to parse the first layer of NSB241R10.tvw until the next one.
Still not sure what the first int after the colors are, but after the D-code definitions (ended abruptly with 0,1 as w,h) are listed the pads, lines, surfaces… with a count and the content if count isn't 0.

Very much looking forward to seeing what you have to show when done.

[mmu]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Ok the pads in the TOP layer have a different length for the structure, seems there are extensions to it for punching the hole.

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Ok the pads in the TOP layer have a different length for the structure, seems there are extensions to it for punching the hole.

I'll wait for you to draw up a rough format spec and then I'll dig in with that.

I noticed there's a lot of repeated structures on most layers that look suspiciously like the tables I'm after ( see image )

Are you decoding stuff like that?

[mmu]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Yeah that's a list of pad/lines/whatever, with the number of entries, some unknown uint32, then the net, the d-code id (starts at 10), then coordinates…

I'll start writing that up, but I must post the retrocomputing devroom request for FOSDEM first before tomorrow :-)

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Yeah that's a list of pad/lines/whatever, with the number of entries, some unknown uint32, then the net, the d-code id (starts at 10), then coordinates…

I'll start writing that up, but I must post the retrocomputing devroom request for FOSDEM first before tomorrow :-)

Any chance you can quickly just do a screen shot showing me a hex pad-block with the uint32, net, d-code ID, coordinate sequence?

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Okay, I worked it out, used the cooordinates to give me the anchor point for what you were talking about...and yes, now I see the network ID... HUZZAAARH!!!

[dzaima]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Here's a big file of things I've decoded so far in the cds2f_NSA912R10-0329.tvw file: https://gist.github.com/dzaima/b07e8...eea748b8c60ea2

Absolutely no clue what boards are or what the file represents, hence the very unhelpful names for everything, but decoding parts of a binary format seemed like a fun programming challenge.

Pretty much everything there is parsed starting from a hard-coded location in the file (in the log printed after "@"s, in decimal) as I don't know how the layer formats work, but maybe this can serve as a hint on what to do when encountering things for the people here who actually know what they're doing, and I've tried to lay out the structure of the various things I parse at the start of the file too.

[dzaima]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

For example, at line 591 is the decoded values of the selected bytes in inflex's last message. The format that's in is described in lines 23-40.

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

From here I can start to write up the first crude importer for OBV/FlexBV.

Many thanks @MMU, that was the hint that bought it all together.

[inflex]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

I forgot to mention, basically if you take the PIN PAD array ID, bitshift by 3 (divide by 8) it should give you the 0-based index of the PAD array in the layer it's present in/on.

ie, Pin 3 of JODD3 has a pad index code of 0x48, >>3 and we get 0x09.

if we then look at the TOP layer pad/item array, we see the 10th item ( remember, 0-indexed) it's the right coordinates and show's a network index of '2', which is correct according to the TBViewer suite info panel for JODD3:3

So that essentially all ties it up.

Now I have to go and write a parser that'll correctly read the file structure based on what we know.

[mmu]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

Ok great.
I just pushed whatever I did last night to my branch.
Attached is what I decoded of NSB241R10.tvw with it.

[mmu]

Re: WANTED: Teboview / TVW file format specification to write OpenBoardview decoder

I still have an issue parsing the Surface list though, on some files there's an extra value after the first entry which isn't there on other files, and I can't find how it's decided.