Honda CX500 Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • roadrash
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Oct 2015
    • 490
    • U.K.

    #1

    Honda CX500 Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

    Hi everyone. Not a old computer monitor this timer its something a bit different.
    This is a CDI ignition unit from a 1980 Honda CX500.
    In 1980 all Japanese bike starting replacing the mechanical contact breaker points ignition system with these fully electronic Capacitive discharge units. But trouble is like all electronic components they fail with age and these CDI units are are no longer available. That's progress they say ??? Luckily I found a second hand one thats still working miraculously so can use that to get readings from.
    Not just that but these CDI units are placed in a steel box and then filled with a resin sealing them tight inside and away from water ingress. I was lucky this one had a slightly softer resin that was almost rubbery and I found I could pick at it with model knives and tiny screwdrivers. It took me 2 days to get it out and then pick away at it to reveal all the components. Many say the main reason these things fail is poor solder joints and they do look a bit rough.
    Well It was inevitable that a few things might get damaged removing all that resin and I broke 4 resistors and slight damage to one diode and one capacitor,
    Here are some photos of the unit at different stages.
    At each end of the board there was a strange twisted wire resistor thingy I have no Ideal of its purpose. There are a few transistors also but they have no markings.
    I managed to remove the resin from the bottom of it revealing the printed circuit as well.
    Please can anyone help me identify any of these parts apart from the obvious resistors etc. None of the caps are marked either but there are no electrolytic ones.
    I removed the two main output Capacitors to get access to the components underneath.
    Please please help guide me to getting this rebuilt with the faulty parts replaced as its the only way this bike will run when this current still ancient unit I am using also fails.
    I have uploaded more pictures at https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...2s?usp=sharing
    Attached Files
  • petehall347
    Badcaps Legend
    • Jan 2015
    • 4423
    • United Kingdom

    #2
    Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

    some copper traces look damaged .
    did you try petrol to remove the gloop ?

    Comment

    • stj
      Great Sage 齊天大聖
      • Dec 2009
      • 30931
      • Albion

      #3
      Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

      remove resin by heating it first, i have de-potted loads of protection devices on arcade boards that way.

      Comment

      • roadrash
        Badcaps Veteran
        • Oct 2015
        • 490
        • U.K.

        #4
        Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

        Originally posted by petehall347
        some copper traces look damaged .
        did you try petrol to remove the gloop ?
        Yes I noticed there are a few myself. There are also a couple that look like broken tracks but they are not because if you zoom in you can see the green lacquer in the area that looks like a crack.

        I am still puzzled what those 2 strange resistor structures are at each end and what they do.

        Comment

        • roadrash
          Badcaps Veteran
          • Oct 2015
          • 490
          • U.K.

          #5
          Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

          Originally posted by stj
          remove resin by heating it first, i have de-potted loads of protection devices on arcade boards that way.
          Thanks for that stj. You are right when i once tried to do a old honda superdream cdi which had the hard type of resin and I was able to remove it by heating it with a tiny jewelery blow torch and it goes crumbly.
          Can you enlighten me stj as to the purpose of these 2 resistor structures and each end do.

          Comment

          • petehall347
            Badcaps Legend
            • Jan 2015
            • 4423
            • United Kingdom

            #6
            Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

            am guessing they run hot

            Comment

            • redwire
              Badcaps Legend
              • Dec 2010
              • 3900
              • Canada

              #7
              Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

              I have helped people reverse engineer these, they can get weird because of the Japanese design and the many patents that were out there back in the day.
              What part numbers do you have for it? Usually other engines got the same (family) of module. It's a lot of work to recreate one.
              The oddball resistors up in the air are likely for setting the ignition timing advance curve for the module, to match it to the engine and its crank pickup. The PCB shows one as R2 trimpot but the factory just soldered in those parts.
              The green TO-220 parts are likely Hitachi SCR's. The green HV caps around 1.5uF 400V.
              Drawing a schematic is the first step, it's mostly the same circuit 2X.
              I don't know the bike's wiring, if it's an exciter coil plus trigger coil or what.

              Comment

              • stj
                Great Sage 齊天大聖
                • Dec 2009
                • 30931
                • Albion

                #8
                Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                the resistor stacks could be a heat thing, was this in an aluminium shell?

                Comment

                • roadrash
                  Badcaps Veteran
                  • Oct 2015
                  • 490
                  • U.K.

                  #9
                  Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                  Originally posted by redwire
                  I have helped people reverse engineer these, they can get weird because of the Japanese design and the many patents that were out there back in the day.
                  What part numbers do you have for it? Usually other engines got the same (family) of module. It's a lot of work to recreate one.
                  The oddball resistors up in the air are likely for setting the ignition timing advance curve for the module, to match it to the engine and its crank pickup. The PCB shows one as R2 trimpot but the factory just soldered in those parts.
                  The green TO-220 parts are likely Hitachi SCR's. The green HV caps around 1.5uF 400V.
                  Drawing a schematic is the first step, it's mostly the same circuit 2X.
                  I don't know the bike's wiring, if it's an exciter coil plus trigger coil or what.
                  I believe that this is made by Hitachi and has a part number in its case TIA02-14.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                  • roadrash
                    Badcaps Veteran
                    • Oct 2015
                    • 490
                    • U.K.

                    #10
                    Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                    Originally posted by stj
                    the resistor stacks could be a heat thing, was this in an aluminium shell?
                    No this was in a steel shell like this
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • roadrash
                      Badcaps Veteran
                      • Oct 2015
                      • 490
                      • U.K.

                      #11
                      Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                      Here are a few more pictures of the components. The transistors have no markings but some of the caps have very feint ones. One seems to be showing 40mv/ 0.04.
                      I am trying to make a component list right now 1st. There is no reason . I have found once most of the resin is removed surgical spirit softens the residents so it can be wiped off the part.
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by roadrash; 06-11-2021, 07:42 AM.

                      Comment

                      • stj
                        Great Sage 齊天大聖
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 30931
                        • Albion

                        #12
                        Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                        put the green to220 devices in a component tester
                        do you have a wiring diagram for the bike btw?

                        Comment

                        • roadrash
                          Badcaps Veteran
                          • Oct 2015
                          • 490
                          • U.K.

                          #13
                          Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                          also have this little green thing that looks like a ceramic capacitor and has the number 351 on it. My component tester says it's resistor with value 331.4 ohms is this right?
                          There is a diode to that's tests ok but is this any special type? It has the markings 100 76 and 1R
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • SMDFlea
                            Super Moderator
                            • Jan 2018
                            • 20326
                            • UK

                            #14
                            Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                            (off-topic) The old CX500 flying maggot , a friend of mine had one of those
                            All donations to badcaps are welcome, click on this link to donate. Thanks to all supporters

                            Comment

                            • dmill89
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 2531
                              • USA

                              #15
                              Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                              Originally posted by SMDFlea
                              (off-topic) The old CX500 flying maggot , a friend of mine had one of those
                              Yep, the CX line was interesting with a longitudinal V-twin and shaft drive, kind of like a Honda version of a Moto-Guzzi, except water-cooled and reliable (at least by the standards of the time). My dad had it's big brother (the CX-650) back in the 80s/early-90s.

                              Comment

                              • stj
                                Great Sage 齊天大聖
                                • Dec 2009
                                • 30931
                                • Albion

                                #16
                                Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                                351 could be a cap or a temperature sensitive resistor of some type to limit current.

                                Comment

                                • SMDFlea
                                  Super Moderator
                                  • Jan 2018
                                  • 20326
                                  • UK

                                  #17
                                  Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                                  Found a schematic and a bit of info .
                                  http://rajamolor.blogspot.com/2008/0...schematic.html
                                  https://motovillage.org/wiki/hondacx...=CDI_Schematic
                                  https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...FlNWQzYTA3YWM1
                                  All donations to badcaps are welcome, click on this link to donate. Thanks to all supporters

                                  Comment

                                  • redwire
                                    Badcaps Legend
                                    • Dec 2010
                                    • 3900
                                    • Canada

                                    #18
                                    Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                                    The tricky part will be the thermistors. You would have measure their resistance at a few different temperatures to find something that matches. As the SCR's heat up, their sensitivity goes up and the thermistor lowers how much gate drive they get.
                                    I did see a remake of the box called Finnbox G47, the thermistors are on the SCR's tabs.
                                    Attached Files

                                    Comment

                                    • stj
                                      Great Sage 齊天大聖
                                      • Dec 2009
                                      • 30931
                                      • Albion

                                      #19
                                      Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                                      maybe re-designing it to use mosfets is the answer.
                                      or darlingtons

                                      Comment

                                      • roadrash
                                        Badcaps Veteran
                                        • Oct 2015
                                        • 490
                                        • U.K.

                                        #20
                                        Re: Motorcycle CDI ignition unit

                                        Originally posted by stj
                                        put the green to220 devices in a component tester
                                        do you have a wiring diagram for the bike btw?
                                        yes here is what the tester says.
                                        Attached Files

                                        Comment

                                        Related Topics

                                        Collapse

                                        • ngml
                                          Repair of an LG split AC system indoor unit PCB
                                          by ngml
                                          I am trying to repair an LG split AC indoor unit, which does not start and gives a CH05 error code.
                                          This indicates an error in the communication between the outdoor and the indoor unit.
                                          The outdoor unit is fine, so the problem is the indoor PCB.
                                          The indoor unit is an LG PC09SQ NSJ (3SNM09JA2FA), and the PCB has the following type number: EAX35907219-1.2 (see photo1)
                                          I changed optocouplers ICO1X & ICO2X and the NPN transistor S9013 which drives optocoupler ICO2X (see photo2), but this did not remedy the fault.

                                          Does anybody have the schematics of this board,...
                                          02-01-2025, 12:55 PM
                                        • roadrash
                                          Motorcycle flasher mystery.
                                          by roadrash
                                          usually get help on here for computers and monitors etc but I thought you guys are the best I can think off to help me solve a real mystery.
                                          I have a Honda NT650V bike and recently fitted a towbar to tug a little trailer sometimes.
                                          Everything was good until I connected up the trailer socket.
                                          The problem is whenever I use the direction indicators/flashers it causes a misfire as soon as I cancel the flashers the misfire stops. The bike without the trailer lights attached is fine.
                                          .So far Ive tried the following:
                                          1) I replaced the battery for a higher A/h original...
                                          04-28-2022, 05:29 AM
                                        • nobbnobb1
                                          Bose Companion 5 - Unit Powers On then Cuts Off Shortly After
                                          by nobbnobb1
                                          Hi guys,

                                          Trying to salvage a Bose Companion 5 computer speaker system that powers off shortly after powering on. It's got a primary USB input (built in DAC) and an aux 3.5mm input. The USB appears to be the primarily source that tells the unit to power on (control pod LED goes green) as the unit has no power switch.

                                          When I first connect power to the unit, plug in the USB, it will play audio nicely for a minute before it drops out and the unit appears to go into standby (control pod LED goes red). It stays in standby and I cannot seem to power it back on without physically...
                                          02-03-2022, 11:14 AM
                                        • Gjackson
                                          Air-conditioning unit power supply failing to power up
                                          by Gjackson
                                          Hi all, I managed to narrow down which PCB was causing my Haier AC to throw out an E7 error code (E7 indicates that the indoor unit and outdoor unit cannot communicate). I found that the outdoor unit power board which gives 5v and 15v to the outdoor unit module board fails to fully power up.. The power Led starts to fade in incredibly slowly and the 5v and 15v power buses jump around like crazy and never reach their required voltage. I unplugged the module board from the power board and the power board powered up fine! It had a steady 5v and 15v out and the power LED came on instantly and Bright....
                                          01-08-2022, 09:24 AM
                                        • navagator
                                          Hitachi Power Supply Unit Interchangeability
                                          by navagator
                                          I have a Hitachi 57F710E rear projection set with a bad power supply board. I've tried to fix it with help from this forum as well as another one, but without success. Today I found a Hitachi rear projection set for sale on Facebook that looked just like mine. After contacting the seller I found out it was a 51F510. According to the service manuals my set uses a HA01312, POWER UNIT DP4X-DM_24W and the 51F510 uses a HA01313, U901, POWER UNIT DP4X_24W.

                                          Does anyone know if these 2 power supply boards are interchangeable?

                                          Thanks.
                                          01-08-2024, 07:53 PM
                                        • Loading...
                                        • No more items.
                                        Working...