EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

[RukyCon]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

Also avoid any Philips ALTO fluorescent lamps as the life of those lamps is mediocre at best.

Can't say that comment aged well, as at some point, Philips somewhat cleaned up their act while GE and Sylvania cut corners on their lamps, possibly to make their LEDs look better in comparison, one of the worst changes I saw was GE cutting the lumen output of their baseline cool white T8s from around 2200lm to 1800lm to match the lumen output of their LED tubes (but it appears they may have reverted this). While Sylvania's fluorescent tubes would go mercury staved within about a year or two of installation, this also used to be common with Philips, but I don't seem to see it as often anymore.

At this point, I'd say the current US-made Philips Altos are probably the best fluorescent tubes on the market, but will they keep that title as they move overseas? I'm not sure.

Also, looking through my old comments... Geez I was a dumbass, still probably am, but at least now I try to avoid asserting my stupidess into places where it doesn't have to be.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

Heads up! It looks like Phillips shutdown their Holland plant and that all post-2015 T5s are made in PRC! Shit!

While OTOH, their F15T8 manufacturing appears to have been moved to Poland... Why didn't Phillips at least do that with their T5s???

I'm at least a bit stumped! The only non-Chinese T5s that I saw, are new-old-stock at the Claremont, NH Home Depot, LOL.

It's a punch in the face to folks that like T5s!

Now, it looks like most T5 manufacturing returned to Europe, albeit not Holland. Wouldn't be surprised if that happened right when Ledvance moved Sylvania to China!

[jazzie366]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

1 KOhm doesn't make that big of a spark. Try 24-Ohm heating element.
Though I usually use a 4.7 KOhm, 5W resistor. Takes 2-3 seconds tops, usually.


I used to do that too. The problem is, I'm not worried so much about my fingers as I am about my multimeters and other tools.

1k @ 370V-ish from two caps being put in series in a voltage doubler circuit, that'll flow about 250-400mA. That's 100W. That's a very nice spark.

It's either that or my screwdriver :P. I should take a room heater and put a few jumper leads on it, turn it on high and see what happens.

[RukyCon]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

You can still buy T12 lamps in the US.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

I think the best philips ALTO lamps are the F15T8 lamps which also happen to be the only lamp in the ALTO series of lamps to be manufactured outside the U.S. (IIRC the lamps are (or were) made in Holland)

I know that it has the highest CRI ratings of the Alto lineup!
At least the "natural" ones. They appear to be made in Poland now...

While OTOH, looks like all post-2015 T5s are made in PRC! Shit!
They're the only ones in the Alto family known to be made in PRC!

I hopefully still have the Hollandaise F15T8 sitting around somewhere...

The last time I was at the Claremont, NH Home Depot, all the packages of the 48-inch T8s and T12s that I saw, still reported being made in U.S.A.

But, by coincidence, I saw this when randomly browsing, which was from the horse's mouth! That one of the rules for an apartment of OSU, (OSU probably is the owner) bans incandescents like they're alcohol! I would watch out for OSU, if anyone here plans to go to that university!
They appear to scream leftist, at least look as leftist as California, if not one of those worst-of-the-worst kind! And that's in a very red state! Apparently, they also act like Oklahoma never gets rain. They're also a major prohibition on hooking up hoses. Would sound too familiar to folks in California...
I would be quaking, even just to bring my own efficient light bulbs with me, if I hypothetically went there! I fear that they may think like a fucking liquor control commission, tell folks that they can get light bulbs distributed by them only, and then confiscate them like they're knives, if not prison-style, even if they're LEDs!
But, I dunno... But, if that's true, then OSU is one of those worst-of-the-worst kind!

The T12s (a.k.a. "fatties") still aren't banned in U.S.A., AFAIK...

[RukyCon]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

The only problem I'm having with them, is suspected to be caused by the ballast or the old wiring at 50 Atkinson St. in BF... (The 48 inchers) (The 48 inchers are one of the best, AFAIK) (They're not shit like many of the short ones seem to be...)

I think the best philips ALTO lamps are the F15T8 lamps which also happen to be the only lamp in the ALTO series of lamps to be manufactured outside the U.S. (IIRC the lamps are (or were) made in Holland)

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

Also avoid any Philips ALTO fluorescent lamps as the life of those lamps is mediocre at best.

The only problem I'm having with them, is suspected to be caused by the ballast or the old wiring at 50 Atkinson St. in BF... (The 48 inchers) (The 48 inchers are one of the best, AFAIK) (They're not shit like many of the short ones seem to be...)

An electrician is expected to do the entire house! Thus, bye bye bye knob-and-post wiring or the like!

I honestly think there's also some cob-job wiring at 50 Atkinson St. at this time!

There seems to be a bullshit neutral, even at the current house! When I turn the Keurig brewer on, which is in the kitchen, the T12 fluorescent light in the kitchen flickers and the voltage rises on the same leg that the living room Tv, the Comcast cable box, the Comcast router, my monitor and PC stuff are connected to!

But I so far can only confirm that I caught it going from 124 V or the like to 126 V and sometimes 127 V... I think I need to try both the Keurig brewer and the range!

[RukyCon]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

Also avoid any Philips ALTO fluorescent lamps as the life of those lamps is mediocre at best.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

I'm going to try some of those Sylvania bulbs as they are made a bit better.

Stay away from their halogens! Because we don't know where they're getting their halogen capsules!

I would go for their 38 W incandescents! You can find them at Family Dollar...

And if you don't mind incandescents, GE-Hungary, FTW! Especially their 3-way ones and their 40 W globes, but check the box to verify!

[momaka]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

Oh yeah, I have two 560Ohm resistors in series for discharging. Now before you say it, yes, it makes large sparks but I don't have the patience to wait 10 seconds for a cap to decharge (either that or I really like the sparks. Sparks are fun. Sparks.)

1 KOhm doesn't make that big of a spark. Try 24-Ohm heating element.
Though I usually use a 4.7 KOhm, 5W resistor. Takes 2-3 seconds tops, usually.

big clive checks for a charge with his fingers!

I used to do that too. The problem is, I'm not worried so much about my fingers as I am about my multimeters and other tools.

[stj]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

lol
big clive checks for a charge with his fingers!

[jazzie366]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

I know what you mean.
But even when I don't care just like you, I still take a random spare resistor from my scrap box and use it. Typically 1 to 10 KOhm will do the trick fine just to test the LED. Thus I always keep my resistor box handy.

Besides, I sometimes find the need to discharge large caps for safety reasons.

Oh yeah, I have two 560Ohm resistors in series for discharging. Now before you say it, yes, it makes large sparks but I don't have the patience to wait 10 seconds for a cap to decharge (either that or I really like the sparks. Sparks are fun. Sparks.)

[momaka]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

Oh bah, I didn't give a shit about these LEDs. The lamp was dead and I'm never going to use them again, I smashed the lamps case to get it open.

I know what you mean.
But even when I don't care just like you, I still take a random spare resistor from my scrap box and use it. Typically 1 to 10 KOhm will do the trick fine just to test the LED. Thus I always keep my resistor box handy.

Besides, I sometimes find the need to discharge large caps for safety reasons.

[jazzie366]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

I know I've done that mistake too when I first got into electronics, so I'll try not to be too harsh here but........ seriously, you don't connect LEDs to a voltage source with unlimited current capability. Period.

If you don't have a variable current source, use a resistor with a voltage source. It takes all of 20 seconds to run through a simple Ohm's law calculation to determine what resistor you need. Otherwise, you risk burning your LEDs or severely shortening their life. Depending on the current capability of your source, sometimes even a split second is enough to nuke the anode's wire bond on the die.

Oh bah, I didn't give a shit about these LEDs. The lamp was dead and I'm never going to use them again, I smashed the lamps case to get it open. I'm going to try some of those Sylvania bulbs as they are made a bit better.

If I was working on sensitive electronics I would've used a proper PSU with current limiting.

[momaka]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

Anyways, I tested the LEDs on the board of the lamp, they're 6V LEDs! So two chips per I assume? I put 7v across one and it went to full brightness immediately (by this, I mean the chip was absolutely blindingly bright.)

I know I've done that mistake too when I first got into electronics, so I'll try not to be too harsh here but........ seriously, you don't connect LEDs to a voltage source with unlimited current capability. Period.

If you don't have a variable current source, use a resistor with a voltage source. It takes all of 20 seconds to run through a simple Ohm's law calculation to determine what resistor you need. Otherwise, you risk burning your LEDs or severely shortening their life. Depending on the current capability of your source, sometimes even a split second is enough to nuke the anode's wire bond on the die.

Also, as you said before, the LEDs could've been shorting causing the resistor to go bad, the only problem I have here is the resistor is the size of a quarter watt SMD resistor, and it's on the + side of the rectifier, going straight to the capacitor, and then to the output. I think that's probably wayyyy too small for a job like that.

Interesting design. That resistor is NOT what is providing power to the LEDs. Inductor L2 does, which is connected in parallel with R1. Most likely they placed R1 there to limit inductive kickback spikes from L2 as the PSU switches. But that's a very poor design. Should have used a diode or a snubber network for that.

[jazzie366]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

R1 is burned, interesting the board can take a parallel pair.
i wonder how many franctions of a cent they saved by only fitting one!!!

R1 is what failed. If there were two, they probably wouldn't have had this problem.

[stj]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03 LED light

R1 is burned, interesting the board can take a parallel pair.
i wonder how many franctions of a cent they saved by only fitting one!!!

[jazzie366]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

Hmmm... I don't know about that. Even Japanese caps will have a hard time "waking up" after 20 years sitting unused.

Haha, I thought the same when I used some 23 year old Nichicon PL's I had. They seemed to work fine though for the month or two that I used them for :P


Anyways, I tested the LEDs on the board of the lamp, they're 6V LEDs! So two chips per I assume? I put 7v across one and it went to full brightness immediately (by this, I mean the chip was absolutely blindingly bright.)

So x6 chips equals about 32V that this would've been running at. None of the LEDs drew excessive current going through my meter, so I'm going to rule that out.

Also, as you said before, the LEDs could've been shorting causing the resistor to go bad, the only problem I have here is the resistor is the size of a quarter watt SMD resistor, and it's on the + side of the rectifier, going straight to the capacitor, and then to the output. I think that's probably wayyyy too small for a job like that. I keep forgetting to upload pics, therefor right after I post this I am going to upload some.

Edit: added pics

[momaka]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

The 20 year life is really the shelf life.

Hmmm... I don't know about that. Even Japanese caps will have a hard time "waking up" after 20 years sitting unused.

The reason i used 3.2V when multiplying when figuring out the maximum voltage of the LED strip is because 3.2v IIRC is the max voltage that you can put into an LED without damaging it, but i think you can go as high as 3.4v but that will most likely damage the LED if used on that voltage for too long. You can also go down to 2.8v per LED and still get some light output.

LEDs are not "driven" by voltage. They are driven by current. The current passing through an LED pretty much determines how bright the LED will be.

That said, the more current you try to pass through an LED, the higher its voltage drop will become. It's a non-linear relationship, though, so doubling the current won't really double the voltage drop.

Now we need to look for one that does not have a resistor at all.

Yeah, I've seen LEDs driven by special LED driver ICs. If the LEDs are crappy, though, that still wouldn't change much of anything. A shorted LED will just make the LED driver shut down instead of the resistor burning out. But then who cares? The end result will be the same - no light from the bulb.

That's a lot of heat those LEDs will be putting off and depending on where they're mounted or what they're mounted to, the LEDs will likely overheat.

It's not that much heat, actually. But if the LED is not made to handle it, it will have a rather short life. So with most LEDs, you pretty much have to choose between high brightness with short life or low brightness with longer life. If you want both, then you just have to use more LEDs over a bigger surface area to keep things cool. That's where the third factor - cost - comes in. And then it becomes a triangle trying to choose between any of the three.

Regarding those cheap SMD LED strips: I also read a technical article somewhere sometime ago that these LEDs use have a soft lens/case to cover the die. Because of that, cheap LEDs tend to have poor seals and it said this was one of the main reasons why they failed so quickly. On the other hand, the article said that cheap standard through-hole 3 mm, 5 mm, and 10 mm LEDs with clear epoxy lenses/cases didn't have that problem, as they were generally sealed better. And personally, I think there is some truth to that, because I haven't seen those fail as often as cheap SMD LEDs.

So if buying cheap LED bulbs, you might be better off with ones that have those through hole LEDs. Of course, they won't last long either if their LEDs are over-driven with current and they run hot. But if not, and if they are powered by a good PSU inside, then they should last a more reasonable amount of time.

[RukyCon]

Re: EcoSmart 5csbr650stq1d03

But 20 years -WHERE is the main question here. 20 years in the landfill? - Ya, I can see that!

The 20 year life is really the shelf life.

Actually, most white and blue LEDs drop a little less than 3V at low power. As you start pushing more current through the LED, then you might see the voltage drop raise to 3.2-3.4V.

The reason i used 3.2V when multiplying when figuring out the maximum voltage of the LED strip is because 3.2v IIRC is the max voltage that you can put into an LED without damaging it, but i think you can go as high as 3.4v but that will most likely damage the LED if used on that voltage for too long. You can also go down to 2.8v per LED and still get some light output.

Gee, and I thought the 150 Ohms resistors in my strips were bad enough.

Now we need to look for one that does not have a resistor at all.

39 Ohms is insane, actually. At 12V operation, there will be approximately 3V for that resistor to drop. So at 39 Ohms, you are looking at 1/13 of an Amp, or 77 mA passing through each LED! That's 230 mW of power dissipation per LED. I doubt those Chinese LEDs can handle that. Heck, mine burned out with the 150 Ohm resistor (that's a little less than 60 mW per LED at 12V operation).

That's a lot of heat those LEDs will be putting off and depending on where they're mounted or what they're mounted to, the LEDs will likely overheat.