Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

[mockingbird]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Ok, I will try and ask around on the xbox-scene forum. They've a hardware mod section but oddly enough, I've never seen anyone attempthing a poly mod. Especially on Falcons, they don't even have the Fujitsus around the GPU but Nichicon HN!!! (Yes I know HN is good after '05/'06)

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

You need to check the volts in the circuit.
Good chance it's a 5v circuit and that will toast a 4v cap in no time.

[mockingbird]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Hmmm. Nichicon LG. Looks good. I would be comfortable replacing with 4v . Next time I open it up for the JTAG. I want to hack the NAND to modify the I2C default fan settings. Thanks.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Mouser is back. - All they have in poly @2700 is a 4v.
You would have to check actual voltage in all system conditions.
If it never goes over +4v [including Ripple] then the poly would work.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...nyKaom4Q%3d%3d

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

To compare caps look at ESR and Ripple
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...43c4079d93.pdf

ESR - Less is better [may say Impedance in data sheet vs ESR]
[ESR is *like* a caps resistance to Ripple. Since these caps job is to pipe Ripple to the ground plane less 'resistance' to Ripple is better.]

Ripple - More is better
[Ripple rating is *like* a caps watt rating. - Tells you how much ripple it can handle without overheating internally. - Kind of like a measure of how heavy duty it is.]

Look at data sheet for the 2700uF HZ:
ESR = 7 mOhm @100kHz [or 0.007 Ohm @ 100kHz]
Ripple = 3770 mAmp @ 100kHz
[This is a very high grade of low ESR cap.]

Now go look at ESR/Ripple for LXZ & LXY.
These are much lower grades but still good brand and low ESR.

~
Digikey has none for poly that size.
Mouser just crashed. Can't check there on poly.
If they have a 2700uF 6.3v poly you may have to give up your first born son or a body part to get some.
.

[mockingbird]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Ah, these are Nichicon HZ... But do you know what polymer series would be a suitable replacement? Also how do HZ compare to UCC LXZ or LXY?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...mZ8C%252bg8%3d

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Are the Fujitsus already Polymer even though they have a K-Vent?

Sorta.
They are "Functional Polymer" as opposed to "Solid Polymer".
They've pretty much kept what "Functional Polymer" is a secret [trade secret I guess] so the need for the vent unknown.

The early versions [made before 2003-ish - guessing] occasionally had problems where moisture from the air would slowly leak -in- and cause minor bloating but since then the seals have improved.
That may have been the only reason for the vent as the very new ones don't have vents anymore.
[I've replaced bloated ones on boards made in 2000-2001 and seen them on boards made from the late 90's thru 2001-2002 or so.]

There is no performance difference or known longevity difference between them and actual solid polymer anymore.

Just consider them the same as solid polymer.

.

[mockingbird]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Good, so I don't have to worry about replacing those. They're all near the GPU which gets very hot. The Rubycon MFZ are 6.3v 2700uf. I can't find anything with that value that low ESR on Digikey.

Which polymer caps would you recommend?

[Toasty]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Yes,they are. Fujitsu FP caps are now under Nichicon branding.

Nichicon HZ, Ruby MCZ, Nichicon HN.

Or, you go nuts and poly the entire board.

[mockingbird]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

I was looking to replace the yellow Fujitsus in my Xenon with equivalent Sanyo Oscons. Are the Fujitsus already Polymer eventhough they have a K-Vent?

Also, the 2700uf Rubycon MFZ... What would you guys recommend replaceing them with as this value is a little out of the ordinary.

[migu3l]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

OK. They changed the Fujitsu's for Rubycon's.

Heat gun method requires a ~carefully~ cut-out, 2 layer aluminum foil shield that blocks everything the chip(s). If you just blasted away without the shield, there's the problem. Same happens with the "oven-bake" method. Just put the new caps and you should be in good shape. Until it RRODs again...

Look into building the foil air tunnels that channel the fan draft over the GPU and CPU. Also consider investing (~$25) in the newer GPU heatpipe style cooler that places a second coil in front of the CPU cooler airflow. A fan upgrade to the Talismoon LED fans (just the regular ones, not the Turbo-switch style) is $20 well spent. A 60% increase in air volume without an increase in noise level (actually a 3dB decrease) is nice too.

There are loads of mods out there. Some make sense, some are a waste of time. YMMV

Toast

Thanks Toast

I'll look into the other mods, I have a Talismoon on its way and Ill try the aluminum shield duct.

When I heat gunned I did cover the caps with foil, although I just threw a sheet over it rather than securing it properly. I really rushed it because I wanted to get the thing fixed already.

[Toasty]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

EDIT:

...foil shield that blocks everything but the chip(s).

[Toasty]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

OK. They changed the Fujitsu's for Rubycon's.

Heat gun method requires a ~carefully~ cut-out, 2 layer aluminum foil shield that blocks everything the chip(s). If you just blasted away without the shield, there's the problem. Same happens with the "oven-bake" method. Just put the new caps and you should be in good shape. Until it RRODs again...

Look into building the foil air tunnels that channel the fan draft over the GPU and CPU. Also consider investing (~$25) in the newer GPU heatpipe style cooler that places a second coil in front of the CPU cooler airflow. A fan upgrade to the Talismoon LED fans (just the regular ones, not the Turbo-switch style) is $20 well spent. A 60% increase in air volume without an increase in noise level (actually a 3dB decrease) is nice too.

There are loads of mods out there. Some make sense, some are a waste of time. YMMV

Toast

[migu3l]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

What model is the system? Age?

MCZ is typical in these nowadays.

HZ is also typical. HZ(M) is the proper marking and should be under the (-) negative stripe and above the H0732.

If yours has the yellow Fujitsu 820uf/4v, and you managed to damage them, you've really gone beyond the extreme in roasting. BBQ anyone?

It was manufactured in 2007. Its not the first gen model because it has HDMI, but its fairly old.

I don't have 820uF/4v caps, only nichicon and rubycon 820uF/6.3v. I only damaged the ones around the CPU (4 of them are buldged, another 4 have leaked and 4 of them have looked like it had a volcanic eruption). I had the heat gun on for 4-minutes, which seemed long but I blindly followed the YouTube guide anyway.

Normally I would just give up and buy a new Xbox, but I live in Australia where its a PAL region. I got my system from the states and have some games with it already. On the plus side it seems like a good learning experience.

[Toasty]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

What model is the system? Age?

MCZ is typical in these nowadays.

HZ is also typical. HZ(M) is the proper marking and should be under the (-) negative stripe and above the H0732.

If yours has the yellow Fujitsu 820uf/4v, and you managed to damage them, you've really gone beyond the extreme in roasting. BBQ anyone?

[migu3l]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Awesome, great to hear they should work.


Thanks PCBONEZ. Your help has been invaluable.

Now for the waiting game

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

The nichicon doesnt list additional info except H0732

07 = year 2007
32 = week 32
My guess is they are HN or HZ series.
Should be written on them somewhere. - If not they may be counterfeits.

I plan to buy Rubycon MCZ 6.3v 820uF to replace the Rubycon MFZ 6.3v 820uF AND the Nichicon 6.3v 820uF capacitors.

MCZ should be fine.

The current one does not have a brand on it, the other details it says on it is 105 deg C FL and it has a logo of an M with a circle around it.

The "M" = Matsushita = Panasonic
The FL is the series.
MCZ is fine for those too.

I think MFZ are just a RoHs compliant replacement for MBZ and/or MCZ.

.

[migu3l]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Cheers,



@stj
It is a mix of Rubycon and nichicon capacitors. The Rubycons have MFZ on them. The nichicon doesnt list additional info except H0732


@Per Hansson

I plan to buy Rubycon MCZ 6.3v 820uF to replace the Rubycon MFZ 6.3v 820uF AND the Nichicon 6.3v 820uF capacitors.
They are roughly the same dimensions to the current ones although the current caps are taller (both Rubycon and Nichicon caps are roughly 22mm tall and 7mm in diameter).


I also plan to order the Rubycon MCZ 16v 1500uF to replace the current 16v 1500uF capacitor.
The current one does not have a brand on it, the other details it says on it is 105 deg C FL and it has a logo of an M with a circle around it.
The dimensions are again quite similar.


Again I appreciate all the comments and info from you guys.

Regards

[Per Hansson]

Re: Identifying badcaps in a Xbox360

Why did you recommend me to read up on IC Chips? Are you suggesting the problem is bigger than I think?

He was implying that if you continue to use the system you will need to read up on how to replace MOSFETS and IC chips when they burn up

Before placing your capacitor order do post exactly what you intend to buy here, the system is quite demanding on the capacitors, just any wont make do...