Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

    Firstly about safety. This monitor has lethal voltage inside. Especially on the the large cap and associated circuit sections on the L shaped power supply board.

    Stage one of the power supply rectifies 115 Vrms houshold AC and feeds it into the 180 uF 450 V cap. Just two torroidal inductors and maybe a transformer limit the current. This cap holds a lot of energy and has the power cord feeding more energy in as well. This part of the circuit is designed to provide very high current spikes to the rest of the power supply without having much droppout in voltage. If you touch it, it will provide a very high current spike to your body almost like a defibrillator would.

    Additionally, a possibly design flaw is that this cap charges up as soon as the power cord is plugged in. The power supply has no soft off function from the buttons on the front. This means that the cap is working as long as the display has AC power and could be running your electric bill up for that matter (especially if the cap starts to leak like mine)

    The invertor board (which connects to the backlights) has even higher voltages than the power supply but the amount of current there MAY make it less of a threat than the power supply.

    ~~~

    I would definately refer to another good thread about this one called "Dell 2007FPB teardown" by budm. This was very helpful to me.

    I apologize I put it all back together and didn't write down the reference designators of components or take pictures. But I will provide good enough location descriptions instead.

    I have fixed my monitor. I just thought I would pay it forward and let you know the cause, since this site helped me fix it.

    The problem was a partially shorted reservoir cap on the power supply. This is the great big one on the power supply board mentioned in the safety section. I think its value was 180 uF and 450 V electrolytic.

    Visual inspection showed a small blob of dried brown goo (electrolyte) that had oozed out the hole for the positive lead on that cap. So upon visual inspection I suspected it might be the problem but could not tell until it was removed from the circuit. I replaced it with a 68 uF 400 V electrolytic. The voltage rating is sufficient for its place in the circuit but the higher the rating the longer it lasts. So overrating never hurts with electrolytics. 68 uF made the monitor work again because it was all I had on hand. It might reduce the efficiency (below nominal) or something. But I know for sure it is more efficient than it was before with a short in it for who knows how long before it finally stopped functioning.

    A cat had also urinated on this monitor. There was some kind of caustic substance all over the back of the invertor, power supply and logic boards. The power supply board also appeared to have either arc landings (little lightning strikes) all over the copper side of the board or corrosion from a substance that ate right through the green coating to the copper and corroded it as well. Like a bunch of tiny little specs and some of them in little lines and patterns.

    Since this mess was on the copper side and the cap was on the component side so my guess is that the mess came from the cat and not the cap popping.

    Anyway I noticed the mess before the cap so I scrubbed, rinsed, dripped, dabbed it several times with rubbing alcohol and toilet paper until upon drying there was no white haze.

    The cleaning didn't fixed my problem so it wasn't until after that that I noticed the cap.

    Before replacement I noticed that the voltage on the bad cap was only about 100 V. Even with the monitor in the soft off state. This is definitely a little low given straight rectification of household AC. Obviously it wasn't a dead short though.

    Replacing the cap with the 68 uF fixed the monitor fully.

    ~~~

    To be more helpful I'll describe its behavior and other stuff I noticed.

    Brightness Adjust:
    I had recently turned up the brightness from about 33 to 66.

    Erroreous Shut Down:
    When I turned it on the day it failed, the backlight would turn on but would be visibly flickering. Then after a short delay, maybe 2 seconds, it would power itself back down. I could power it up again with the button but it would keep doing the same thing.

    Noisy:
    Various different components on the invertor and power supply board were making various noises. The noises only occured while the backlights were still on. I probed the noise sources with a long DRY CARDBOARD tube with which I could almost isolate to the individual component.

    The loudest was on the power supply board in the area between the first yellow transformer and the two little toroids (closest to the AC plug). This was kind of like a crackly buzz. I associate the two toroids are fed in series to the transformer and by some manor or another that circuit drives a full wave rectifier to charge the great big 180 uF 450 V cap. With the cap shorted I attribute the buzz to excessive current in the toroids and possibly the transformer and possibly saturation of the core as well.

    There was also a seperate crackly buzz coming from the later stage transformer but it was weaker. I didn't trace out electrical connections but I am guessing this was some kind of swicther and the buzz was due again to excessive current but this time due to insufficient reservoir (input voltage) requiring longer and heavier switch cycles.

    There was also a weak crackling noise coming from the large black magnetic components on the inverter board. This probably had something to do with power supply noise, low voltage, or periodic dropout.

    The power delivered from the power supply was about 18.5 V when on and 18.8 V when off. This fooled me for a bit to think the power supply part was working but it wasn't fully working.

    Unfortunately I didn't measure voltages once it was working. I was just happy it worked.

    Once I replaced the big cap, the backlight came on perfectly and stayed on, and any noise was virtually gone.

    ~~~

    I'll reveal that I had this monitor nearly completely disassembled before figuring out the real problem.

    It was pretty easy to do. You just want to be very gentle with the LCD and the circuit film leaves attached to it. Also try to keep anything between the back side of the LCD and the front side of the 1 cm thick diffuser very clean because any debris that gets in there I am pretty sure will show up in the picture forever or at least until you open everything up again to get it out.

    There are two CCFL modules. One at top and bottom. Each are about 16.75" long. Each have three CCFL tubes slightly larger dia. than a pencil lead. But remove your own and get exact form factor before buying some . . .

    All six tubes worked in mine, yet there were some dark specs at the end of a few when off. Usually any kind of dark spots would seem to mean bad but in this case they might be the mercury that is in them condensed when they turn off which would be normal. That is a guess. Or it could be signs of aging, but they still work just fine.

    It would be pretty easy to retrofit with LED backlights.

    As budm pointed out you will still need a 19V power supply to deliver to the buck boost/USB board which will then derive power for the logic board.

    You might replace the existing power supply entirely or you might leave that and re-purpose the provided 19V out to drive and LED driver. The invertor would definitely be eliminated.

    In addition to the 19 V from the power supply to the invertor, there were three signals shared by the logic board. These I think are the brightness control and possibly brightness feedback. I don't know which one is which though.

    You would need to determine how to translate these signals for the LED driver to maintain the ability to control brightness from the 2007FPb on screen menu.

    Another pointer is that I was able to run this without the LCD component connected. Removing that from the system (and from the work area) is a good Idea while diagnosing problems that aren't related to it. Simply because it is delicate and clunky.

    One final thing, this monitor uses a little bit of power, not sure how much, just by being plugged in. You might want to install a switch so it can be switched off a shoulder height or plug it into an external power strip that you can kick off with your foot to save power, and save working life of the display as well.

    Good luck. Hope this helps you fix your nice display.

    Be SAFE!

    #2
    Re: 2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

    I might have overlooked something. I didn't take careful enough note if there was a transformer in-line between the AC and the rectifier. I am leaning toward about 75% sure that there was because that is where all the noise was coming from. . .

    I don't know then if it was a step-up or step-down. If it was a step up then 400 V rating on my replacement might not have been sufficient.

    For posterity, the way to know for sure is to get a datasheet on the transformer, or measure it. Make sure your meter is rated for 500 V or so.

    I might open mine back up to check it.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: 2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

      Those TOROID inductors are the AC line diff mode noise filter, and the rectangular one is for the common mode line noise filter.
      Never stop learning
      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

      Inverter testing using old CFL:
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

      TV Factory reset codes listing:
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

      Comment


        #4
        Re: 2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

        Originally posted by ProTron View Post
        Good luck. Hope this helps you fix your nice display
        Thank heaps for this info! I have two of these excellent monitors, both the IPS variant and they've both been slowly getting dimmer over the last couple of years. I'll open the dimmest and replace that big cap and see if that fixes the brightness issue. I don't suppose you remember the lead pitch and available space so I can order the capacitor before taking it out of service?

        I will also evaluate it for retro-fitting LEDs while I'm in there - perhaps three of those ~$15 backlight kits from aliexpress (staggered so emitters overlap so the light is even) and maybe control them with a discrete PWM module...

        Maybe. Thanks again.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: 2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

          $15?
          http://stores.ebay.com/lcd-led-parts

          Comment


            #6
            Re: 2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

            Originally posted by stj View Post
            OK, ~$12 then. (Where "~" is used to mean "approximately equal to") There is one listed there at 10% off for $12.15. I just rounded up to the nearest $5. <shrug>

            I'm talking about twin strip kits at least 42cm long, with controller.

            Do you know details of the cap I'm asking about?

            Comment


              #7
              Re: 2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

              no, he's talking about the main high voltage smoother.
              but no foto's or make/series etc.

              i'v had those fail on stuff - it happens.
              he should have used the right replacement though.
              underrating the cap can have all kinds of issues from the monitor resetting when someone turns on something large in the house like a vac cleaner or kettle, to the display resetting or flickering when you turn the brightness right up.

              if it could have been reliable at 68uf they wouldnt have spent the extra money fitting a 180uf part!

              about your brightness slowly dropping - how bad is it? it could just be the tubes aging.
              Last edited by stj; 08-20-2015, 08:32 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: 2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

                Originally posted by stj View Post
                no, he's talking about the main high voltage smoother.
                but no foto's or make/series etc.

                i'v had those fail on stuff - it happens.
                he should have used the right replacement though.
                underrating the cap can have all kinds of issues from the monitor resetting when someone turns on something large in the house like a vac cleaner or kettle, to the display resetting or flickering when you turn the brightness right up.
                I've found a few pics of it in other threads. It's a big sucker lying on its side on the PCB.

                Originally posted by stj View Post
                if it could have been reliable at 68uf they wouldnt have spent the extra money fitting a 180uf part!

                Agreed. While it may work short-term with the 68uF part it's not advisable to under-rate like that when replacing.

                Originally posted by stj View Post
                about your brightness slowly dropping - how bad is it? it could just be the tubes aging.
                It's bad enough so that I've had it on 100% for a year and it's now difficult to play the game I play mostly (dark and atmospheric).

                I have two and have now swapped for the one I had on my 'guest computer'. That's set on 65% brightness and is much brighter than the one I was using. Then again it's had a bit less use.

                You're most likely right, it's probably the tubes ageing. I thought about fitting LEDs in place of the CCFLs so have been reading here to find out all I can before I open it up. It'd be really nice to know where to pick up the dimming signal from. I don't have a scope, just a basic DMM, soldering iron and a cheap hot air rework station.

                At least now I know how long the LED strips need to be though. If I'm successful with the one that's dim I'll do the other as well. For general computing I seriously dislike the modern short-screens. Even if I was in a financial position to buy a new high-pixel density IPS screen I'd rather fix my 4:3 UXGA 2007FPb monitors if possible.

                Cheers.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: 2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

                  dimming signal is tricky, it is 50/50 if it will work because of the different methods used.
                  finding it is easy, just get the datasheet for the chip on the invertor and folow the pin back.
                  invertors are often marked anyway.

                  if you want to find if it is the tubes, why not swap the boards between the monitors and see if the brightness is effected?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: 2007FPb - Backlight Flickers - Backlight Shuts Off - Buzzing and Crackling Noises

                    Originally posted by stj View Post
                    dimming signal is tricky, it is 50/50 if it will work because of the different methods used.
                    finding it is easy, just get the datasheet for the chip on the invertor and folow the pin back.
                    invertors are often marked anyway.
                    Ok, yeah I figured I'd try that when I have one disassembled.
                    Originally posted by stj View Post
                    if you want to find if it is the tubes, why not swap the boards between the monitors and see if the brightness is effected?
                    That is the logical thing to do. However I only have these two monitors, they're tricky to take apart and reassemble and I'm an invalid who can only manage an hour or so a day at this sort of thing - on a good day.

                    I can live without one of them for a wee while but not having at least one working for a length of time isn't really an option. Being essentially house-bound (and very poor) means I need my computer and internet to keep my mind busy and keep me from the horrors of broadcast TV.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X