HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

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  • jdmillard
    Member
    • Mar 2014
    • 39
    • USA

    #1

    HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

    HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor). Yes, I know it's ancient and has a far lower resolution than modern phone screens but it is nonetheless an LCD monitor that I'm working on. Also, my repair attempt is not a hopeless quest to delay purchasing a new monitor (I'm quite proud of my full-HD dual-monitor setup on the same desk, different PC). So you could say this is a journey that is mostly educationally motivated and partially sentimentally motivated. Here's the whole story:

    So, for a while, the screen did this "flashing" thing where it would (upon being awoken by a PC) “flash” the signal image for much less than a second then go black for about 4 second then flash again etc. etc. It did this back and forth indefinitely. I couldn't even turn the screen off unless I unplugged it from the wall or pressed the power button at the exact instant that the image flashed. I also discovered that I could turn off the screen this way (using the power button with perfect timing), wait 15 seconds for the computer to finish booting (or waking up), then turn it on when the video signal stabilized and it would display as it should - no problems. It behaved identically with multiple PCs. I had always assumed that there was a bad capacitor or two, just based on my intuition of circuits.

    Anyways, the monitor recently died completely, no flashing, no green LED, nothing. I took it as a challenge! I did a lot of research (yes, I did indeed read about this extensively before posting), and confirmed my capacitor theory. I took the whole thing apart and located the bad caps. I ordered some new ones of the same specs and replaced them (see pics).

    Based on my research and the bad condition of capacitors I found, I'm certain that the caps were an issue and probably caused the screen flashing. However, the screen still does not turn on (no green LED either). Here's the fun part: there's a quiet clicking sound like a clock when power is supplied to the board. Looking into the power supply is the next obvious step of course. Further research (including threads on this site) of this clicking noise has pointed me directly to the power supply transistors. There are two transistors on this board (see pics).

    I know that the codes on transistors are proprietary, so these may be useless to you, but here are the numbers that are written on each one:
    C5706 4F
    C5706 4G


    I feel comfortable soldering and whatnot. But I don't know a whole lot about transistors. I know what they do but I've never needed to replace any. The methods of testing transistors that I found online seemed kinda sketchy to me. I don't know how to pick which transistors to buy to replace these. I know current ratings are important. I'd assume there are voltage ratings and a few other specs too… I just don't know the specific specs of these transistors. Also, what do the 4F and 4G mean? Do these transistors have different specs? Searches of these part numbers yielded a few data sheets of transistors but they did not end in 4F or 4G (they had other random letters). How do I make sure that I buy transistors that will work for this system? Any help is appreciated. Also, is there any other part that could cause the power supply to make soft clicking sounds? The fuse is good. If you need me to check or test any other components just let me know.

    For the sake of communication you should know a few things. I'm an engineer. Sorry to drop the “I'm an engineer card,” I know it can be annoying to some people. I just say it so that you know that I'm not just a kid in a garage and that I do understand technical terms. I'm obviously not an electrical engineer, but I've had some formal training with circuits and signal analysis so electrical and computer science topics are things that I can understand if you explain them to me. I do have a multimeter and soldering equipment.
    Attached Files
  • jdmillard
    Member
    • Mar 2014
    • 39
    • USA

    #2
    Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

    Update Everyone:

    I took out one of the power supply transistors and tested it. It's shorted. It allows current through the collector and emitter without any current or voltage applied to the base. It was basically acting as a normal diode which (hopefully) ends the investigation of the cause of power loss.

    I'm still stumped though on what transistor will work well as a replacement. I have yet to find a spec sheet for these part numbers. Obviously I'll need a max current rating of equal or greater value than the existing ones, the same polarity, equal or greater max operating temperature, and a few different voltage ratings that I'm still studying (and will hopefully understand soon).
    Last edited by jdmillard; 03-19-2014, 09:35 PM.

    Comment

    • budm
      Badcaps Legend
      • Feb 2010
      • 40746
      • USA

      #3
      Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

      Those are commonly failed transistor 2SC5706, you can replace with 2SC5707 which has better spec. The bad filter caps can also cause the transistors to fail due to ripple voltage on the DC voltage feeding the Royer Oscillator circuits which drive that high voltage inverter transformer.
      The clicking sound you were hearing is the power supply starts up detect too much current draws due to shorted transistor, so it goes into shut down and try to start up again, just stuck in start/stop mode. You should also inspect ALL the solder joints on the board.
      http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...XwfhJJof5l0Q==

      http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...EOS-ND/2797034
      Attached Files
      Last edited by budm; 03-19-2014, 09:52 PM.
      Never stop learning
      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

      Inverter testing using old CFL:
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

      TV Factory reset codes listing:
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

      Comment

      • jdmillard
        Member
        • Mar 2014
        • 39
        • USA

        #4
        Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

        Originally posted by budm
        Those are commonly failed transistor 2SC5706, you can replace with 2SC5707 which has better spec. The bad filter caps can also cause the transistors to fail due to ripple voltage on the DC voltage feeding the Royer Oscillator circuits which drive that high voltage inverter transformer.
        The clicking sound you were hearing is the power supply starts up detect too much current draws due to shorted transistor, so it goes into shut down and try to start up again, just stuck in start/stop mode. You should also inspect ALL the solder joints on the board.
        Awesome. That all made sense too (it wouldn't have made much sense to me two days ago before teaching myself a bunch of stuff).

        Minutes ago I just solved the mystery behind the strange "4F" and "4G" markings. According to this pdf spec sheet (I stumbled upon that same 2SC5706), that space where those letters are written is reserved for at "Lot no" so we don't have to worry about it. I was confused by the "2S" at the beginning of this part number that you offer (and that I coincidentally found too). I guess I have no easy way of figuring out why my transistors didn't have it and these new ones do. Oh well.

        Thanks so much for your input. I'll do everything you suggested in your post and I'll keep you updated with the results.
        Last edited by jdmillard; 03-19-2014, 09:58 PM.

        Comment

        • budm
          Badcaps Legend
          • Feb 2010
          • 40746
          • USA

          #5
          Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

          The 2S is the Japanese transistor numbering system. They usually leave out the 2S printing.
          2SA, 2SB = PNP
          2SC, 2SD = NPN
          2SJ = P channel MOSFET
          2SK = N channel MOSFET
          http://www.jisc.go.jp/eng/
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_sem...or_designation
          Last edited by budm; 03-19-2014, 10:03 PM.
          Never stop learning
          Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

          Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

          Inverter testing using old CFL:
          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

          Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
          http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

          TV Factory reset codes listing:
          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

          Comment

          • jdmillard
            Member
            • Mar 2014
            • 39
            • USA

            #6
            Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

            Originally posted by budm
            The 2S is the Japanese transistor numbering system.
            2SA, 2SB = PNP
            2SC, 2SD = NPN
            2SJ = P channel MOSFET
            2SK = N channel MOSFET
            I'll have to remember that. Thanks again.

            Comment

            • jdmillard
              Member
              • Mar 2014
              • 39
              • USA

              #7
              Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

              Alright, so I took out the other transistor. Both transistors from my photos are removed. I double checked how I was testing them with my sources and now I'm thinking that they are okay. I think I got confused because (in order from left to right) it goes Base, Collector, Emitter (rather than having the base in the middle).

              Now I have a couple questions:
              -If my multimeter detects that current is allowed to flow in the directions that it should, could the transistors still be bad? (I don't mind replacing them anyways because they are cheap, but now I fear that it perhaps won't fix the issue.
              -Assuming the transistors, soldering points, and capacitors are perfect, what else could cause the clicking?


              Note: There were a few other transistors, but they were smaller and far away from all the power supply components. I doubt that they are related to the power. Correct me if I'm wrong.

              Comment

              • jdmillard
                Member
                • Mar 2014
                • 39
                • USA

                #8
                Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                Here is a more detailed description of my transistor tests using the diode test feature on my multimeter.

                On both transistors:
                -current could flow from the base to the collector and not the other direction
                -current could flow from the base to the emitter and not the other direction
                -current could not flow between the emitter and collector in either direction

                This seems consistent with NPN polarity transistors. Also, every time current could flow, the voltage drop measured was almost exactly .635 V regardless of the leads or transistors under scrutiny. Now that I understand better, it seems that the current directions seem healthy, but I don't know how they actually perform (nor would I know how to test that).

                Comment

                • budm
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 40746
                  • USA

                  #9
                  Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                  When I look for transistor with leakage, I use Ohm mode since if the transistor is bad, it will no longer act like semiconductor any more but like low Ohm resistor (<1 Ohms if it is shorted out).
                  You can leave those two transistors out and then check to see if the power supply stop ticking and give you steady 5V and about 12v for the inverter section. You can power up this power supply-inverter board by itself since it is an always on power supply. Just be careful not to touch anything in the primary (HOT/LINE) side of the circuits.
                  Never stop learning
                  Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                  Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                  Inverter testing using old CFL:
                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                  Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                  http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                  TV Factory reset codes listing:
                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                  Comment

                  • jdmillard
                    Member
                    • Mar 2014
                    • 39
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                    Alright, I retested using the ohm mode and they all had high resistance. I also powered the board. I wasn't sure exactly where to take the volt measurements, but it I didn't give it more than a few seconds of attention because the ticking was still there. So I guess it's time to check some other things.

                    I suppose it could be the transformer itself. What do you think? I could also find a magnifying glass and check that none of the copper traces are broken and that there's no solder shorting anything on the PCB.

                    Anyways, I'm calling it for tonight, but I'll be back on tomorrow. Thanks for all you input. I suppose a lot of people would see this as a chore, but I've thoroughly enjoyed learning about all this stuff.

                    Comment

                    • budm
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 40746
                      • USA

                      #11
                      Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                      Just leave the transistors out for now. I see one rectifier diode (to-220 case, has 3 legs, 2 diodes with Common Cathode in the middle pin) mounted on the heat sink close to the top edge of the board, and two small diodes soldered to two smaller heat sinks. Please check the resistance reading on those diodes.
                      Never stop learning
                      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                      Inverter testing using old CFL:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                      TV Factory reset codes listing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                      Comment

                      • jdmillard
                        Member
                        • Mar 2014
                        • 39
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                        Sure thing. I won't be free until this evening, but I'll let you know.

                        Comment

                        • jdmillard
                          Member
                          • Mar 2014
                          • 39
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                          So there are actually two rectifier diodes. The second one is to the right of the one you were referring to, it's just that you can't see it from top-view because it's underneath that bent metal canopy that touches the monitor housing.

                          Anyways, here are my results in the attached screenshot image. It was all done in-circuit (which I hate). If you need me to remove a component for better testing, just say the word. About the highlighted cells: I'm not implying anything, just showing that they were the same value. I just wanted it to be easier to see.

                          Also, the values fluctuated as I measured. The initial dramatic change was the auto resistance feature of the multimeter, but then it continued to slowly drift. I just assumed that this was my multimeter battery charging some nearby capacitors or something like that. All these values are when the fluctuation approached a minimum.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by jdmillard; 03-20-2014, 08:04 PM.

                          Comment

                          • budm
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 40746
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                            The one you marked as 'TOP RECTIFIER' is actually a voltage regulator if it has in, out, and adjust pin.
                            So you do not have shorted out (very low Ohm readings) which can cause the power supply to go into shutdown mode. I would like to see the DC voltage reading to see if it is swinging up and down, red probe on the IN pin of the regulator, the black probe on the negative leg of cap you replaced that has gold stripe for the negative leg C922.
                            Last edited by budm; 03-20-2014, 08:15 PM.
                            Never stop learning
                            Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                            Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                            Inverter testing using old CFL:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                            Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                            http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                            TV Factory reset codes listing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                            Comment

                            • budm
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 40746
                              • USA

                              #15
                              Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                              BTW, did you replace the start up cap?
                              Attached Files
                              Never stop learning
                              Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                              Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                              Inverter testing using old CFL:
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                              Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                              http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                              TV Factory reset codes listing:
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                              Comment

                              • jdmillard
                                Member
                                • Mar 2014
                                • 39
                                • USA

                                #16
                                Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                                Here is a photo from the top-right corner at an angle so you can see both of the regulators that I tested. I tested them because they were on heatsinks near the top of the board. I suppose the rectifier diode you were referring to was the object below the yellow square next to the startup cap. It has 3 leads each labeled S,D,G.

                                And I did not replace the startup cap. It had no leaking, bulging, or warping. The second picture is a closeup of that capacitor.
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by jdmillard; 03-20-2014, 08:32 PM.

                                Comment

                                • budm
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Feb 2010
                                  • 40746
                                  • USA

                                  #17
                                  Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                                  'S,D,G.' That is MOSFET for driving that yellow power transformer.
                                  That small start up cap will not show any sign of bulging, but it can have high ESR or the drops in capacitance.
                                  So it has two voltage regulator ICs (can you read the part numbers?), the one on the left had burnt/ brownish color circuit board close to it, something got very hot.
                                  Can I see the bottom side of the board? Like to see that burnt/over heat section of that section.
                                  Too bad the service manual does not have the diagram:
                                  Last edited by budm; 03-20-2014, 08:43 PM.
                                  Never stop learning
                                  Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                  Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                  Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                  Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                  http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                  TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                  Comment

                                  • jdmillard
                                    Member
                                    • Mar 2014
                                    • 39
                                    • USA

                                    #18
                                    Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                                    I did the dc voltage reading that you described on the "in" and the negative of that gold-striped cap. (I actually didn't replace that one, it was just in the picture because it was next to that transistor). Anyways, it did jump up and down. With every "click" it jumped to anywhere between 5-6 volts. I also tested it on the other voltage regulator and got the same results.

                                    Dang, I didn't even see that burnt spot (covered by that canopy thing in the shadows) until my camera flash lit it up in that photo. I'm working on getting you a photo of the back of that spot. I'll also post the part numbers of those voltage regulators.

                                    Comment

                                    • budm
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Feb 2010
                                      • 40746
                                      • USA

                                      #19
                                      Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                                      Try replacing that start up cap. But I think there some kind of shorts on the board, especially around that burnt section.
                                      Never stop learning
                                      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                      Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                      TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                      Comment

                                      • budm
                                        Badcaps Legend
                                        • Feb 2010
                                        • 40746
                                        • USA

                                        #20
                                        Re: HP Pavilion vf15 (15" Flat Panel LCD Monitor)

                                        Did some one work on this monitor before? the way the heat sinks are blackened and that funny heat sink with bent top.
                                        http://lcdalternatives.com/HP-vf15-L...-P1660306.aspx
                                        Never stop learning
                                        Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                        Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                        Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                        Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                        http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                        TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                        Comment

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