Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

[Spork Schivago]

Hello,

I posted this on EEVBlog but didn't get any responses. I've had a need to replace the heating elements in my Scotle HR460C BGA Rework Station. I'm attaching a crude block diagram I created of how it's currently wired up. I can try to clarify things if it's a bit messy.

Currently, when I have two switches, LEFT SWITCH and RIGHT SWITCH. When I have only the LEFT SWITCH turned on, only the bottom heating element in the drawing is off (the right most heating element in real life). When I have the RIGHT SWITCH turned on, only the top heating element in the drawing is off (the left most heating element in real life). When I have both turned on, all the heating elements are active.

I wanted to try and figure out away to wire it up so when one of the switches is on, the top and bottom heating elements in the diagram are off (the outer right and left one in real life) and when that same switch is on, it turns on those outer heating elements. That way, I'd have a small board switch and a large board switch instead of a LEFT SWITCH and a RIGHT SWITCH.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to accomplish this? There's a lot of wires and I'm getting a bit confused from all of them. Would it just be too much work?

Thanks!

[stj]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

on that subject, look at these foto's of the big bastard with twin blowers!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

That's cool. Mine's a bit like that but it has a touch screen and shows the heating curves and everything. It also has dual hot air heating (from the top and bottom) plus the ceramic infrared heating elements. When it arrived, one element was shattered so I replaced them with some nicer Elstein infrared heating elements.

Eventually, I'd like to design my own touch screen P.I.D. controller and build my very own open source / open hardware BGA rework unit. That's way down the road though. Right now, I'm struggling figuring out how these switches work the way they're working. To me, it'd make sense that either switch, left or right, would turn on all heating elements. Obviously, I'm missing something important here. I still got a heck of a lot more learning to do!

[stj]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

so you want one switch to power the central 4 and the other switch to power the outer extension?


btw, that Honton uses 20A at 240v at full power!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

so you want one switch to power the central 4 and the other switch to power the outer extension?

Yes sir.

btw, that Honton uses 20A at 240v at full power!

That Honton is almost identical, except for the P.I.D. controller. The heating elements on that one are arranged differently than mine as well, but I even have that long fan on the side to cool the PCBs down quicker.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

It's a bit harder than I was expecting. The heating elements don't have very long leads but I have some of the jumper cables. I believe it's the type of wire people use when they make thermocouples (like the k-type thermocouples for instance). Any suggestion on how to accomplish this?

I was thinking I wouldn't have to do much with the "top" one...but the bottom one, that's a mess...not sure how I'd wire it up properly. I might need to buy some ceramic terminal blocks with more terminals (ie, 6 or 8 instead of 4).

Any suggestions? Thanks!

[stj]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

so looking at your drawing, i see:
120v (to bga unit)
gnd (to bga unit)
and the gnd from the switches.

are the grounds connected together?
is the 120v being switched, or one/both of the grounds by the temp controller?

[stj]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

actually, your controller already runs the central 4, so just hook the 2 outer plate wires together on a single switch.
leave the other switch unused.

here is your foto with some scribble on it to make the power connections more clear.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

so looking at your drawing, i see:
120v (to bga unit)
gnd (to bga unit)
and the gnd from the switches.

are the grounds connected together?
is the 120v being switched, or one/both of the grounds by the temp controller?

Let me double check, just to make sure I got it right.

Okay, the 120V comes from the wall socket and then goes through a breaker (they're 240V heating elements but it appears as if only one of the hots from the outlet are going to the actual heating elements). The one that says, "GND To BGA Unit" and the one that says TO BGA GND are connected together. Using my multimeter, they seem to go to this little PSU, not directly, but there's 0.000ohm resistance between those two and the AC-N line off the mini-PSU type thing. It's a LingLong LL-36-2A power supply. I couldn't find any information on the net about it but I didn't look too hard.

If there's anything else I can answer, please let me know. If you want, I can figure out exactly what those two "GND To BGA Unit" and "TO BGA GND" are actually connected to but it will probably involve taking the whole unit apart. There is a mess of wires inside and they're all crammed into these small, long plastic boxes that have this top that slides over it. Some sort of conduit but I think I've seen these used before with patch panels for networking and shit.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

Those two GNDs that are tied together, they go to some Solid State Relay box that's pretty long and somehow, that's tied into the PSU's GND.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

All the Solid State Relay boxes (three of them I believe, they're under a board so it's hard to see) all have a wire with the number #1 on it, connecting them together. There's also the same wire with a #1 on it that goes to the PSU's AC-L terminal.

[stj]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

sounds like it's switching the negative side with the controller then.

so to get what you want, just move the plate wire from one of the switches over to the other switch, so one switch controls both outer plates.
make sure the switch is rated for enough A's first.

[stj]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

btw, if you end up making your own controller, you probably want to ditch the switches and get another solid-state relay.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

actually, your controller already runs the central 4, so just hook the 2 outer plate wires together on a single switch.
leave the other switch unused.

here is your foto with some scribble on it to make the power connections more clear.

Okay, so in your photo, I got some questions. If you look at the heating element second from the bottom, you see a yellow lead and a green lead. From your drawing, I just want to make sure I'm correct, I'd unhook the yellow lead from the terminal and run it directly so it's connected to the left side of the heating element above that? Connect it to where the purple line goes in the top left terminal box, instead of having it connected to the bottom left terminal block, right?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

btw, if you end up making your own controller, you probably want to ditch the switches and get another solid-state relay.

If I end up making my own controller, I'm going to do it a lot different. I'll use totally different Elstein heating elements, the ones where they each have a thermocouple built in...and where they connect with metallic rails instead of wires.

Then, for the touch screen, I'd have it where it shows a picture of the heating elements and you can just tap the elements to turn them on and off. It'll remember your decision so when it loses power, it's okay, it'll use the last ceramic zoning profile that was picked.

I got all kinds of ideas, just can't implement them yet. There's always so much shit to do but so little time to get it all done in, you know?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

The big green board that this thing has in it, I believe that's what people use to drive stepper motors on CNC machines. This is a hodge podge of different parts. Besides the frame, I doubt these people actually made any circuit boards themselves for this. They just threw a bunch of different parts together.

This is a much older model I guess and they haven't sold it in a while, according to the Scotle representative I've talked to. Hopefully, they took their investments and improved the company a good bit.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

Stj,

I made a blank template. Do you think you could show me how it's wired all the way up with this template? I think with your drawing, because there's wires going over wires, it's confusing me a bit. I wanted to add, I have to tie all the wires together using those ceramic terminals (the red blocks in the drawing) because of the heat. I can't use solder and I can't use plastic or anything to tie them together.

Thank you for your help.

[stj]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

does this look better?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

Yes sir. Thank you. So, Clean Current Wiring makes sense to me, but I'm a bit confused as to why the RIGHT SWITCH isn't being used at all in the Clean Future Wiring.png image.

Also, that board that I thought was to control stepper motors....I believe it's called a PLC (Programmable Controller Logic) Controller.

I found one on aliexpress that is almost identical. The parts are in the exact same place, the labels are a little different (ie, I have a DA0 and a DA1 but in the drawing, there's a YA0 and YA1). Also, mine is the same physical size but it's missing some places for the wire hookups. I just have black spots where I can solder them down.

I wanted to find a datasheet for this PLC Controller so I could create a schematic and board layout but also, in case it ever breaks, I can order a replacement. This PLC Controller is what controls the temperature of the ceramic heating elements, isn't it? The touch screen hooks up through the RS422 port.

It'd be nice if I could figure out how to dump the software. Also, the touch screen has some ports that aren't currently being used, such as ethernet, USB, etc. I wonder what would happen if I plugged it into the PC via USB or hooked it up to the network. Currently, in the system settings, it shows an IP address of 127.0.0.1 (the local loopback).


Here's a link to the one that's almost the same as mine, just with more headers.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-...592169950.html

Sorry for the crappy picture. The one named My PLC Controller.JPG. I couldn't get the camera focused very well and the way I had to take the pic, I couldn't use the tri-pod.

[stj]

Re: Scotle HR460 Rewiring Heating Elements

the reason my "future" diagram only uses one switch is i thought you want a small area / large area type thing - rather than seperate sides.