Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

[stj]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

a lot of mcu's - even small 8pin ones now have A-D and/or D-A convertors, hardware PWM output's etc.

i'm now looking at the STM32F446RE
fucking amazing chip! it even has an lcd panel driver!!

[Uniballer]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

I had to "find" it because they were talking of getting a new one. It's given back but with the shocking part disabled. This unit is meant for a much larger dog as well. Says so right in the manual. If you want, I can pull it out and find out what pound dog it is meant for and figure out how much their little dog ways. I think the vibration mode should be effective. What do you think?

It depends on the dog, the "trainer", and the training method. A smart, patient trainer can make a lot of things work. Not everything will work with every dog. A stupid asshole can make anything abusive.

I have used an electronic collar on quite a few dogs, but I use it only for "reminder at a distance" of things that the dog already knows. I try to use the lowest stimulation level that will work. Good timing and context matter a lot.

I don't do everything the way it is done in this Tri-Tronics Collar Intro Video, but I agree with the general approach.

If all you have is a vibration mode, or a tone, then you have to condition the dog to what the vibration or tone means: e.g. negative reinforcement, or maybe praise for the tone. Some dogs will be easy to condition to understand that the buzzing thing on his neck means "don't do that". Others will not be so easy. Some may not get it because of prior experiences or other factors. A person who doesn't really care about the dog is unlikely to put in the time and effort required for success.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

a lot of mcu's - even small 8pin ones now have A-D and/or D-A convertors, hardware PWM output's etc.

i'm now looking at the STM32F446RE
fucking amazing chip! it even has an lcd panel driver!!

Okay, so A-D = Analog to Digital, D-A = Digital to Analog, right? I don't understand how converting between one format to another allows you to adjust the voltage though.

For PWM output, that's Pulse Width Modulation...my understanding is the PWM controller or whatever it's called sends out pulses. The characteristics of the pulses determine how much voltage is sent out. If we have 10V PWM controller running at 50% duty cycle (the pulses are at 10 volts half the time, 0 volts the other half), we have an essential average voltage of 5 volts. If we have a 10% duty cycle, we'd have an essential average voltage of 1 volts. Does that sound right? I understand how a PWM controller can change the voltage. I just never thought of it before.

[stj]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

if you have a 12bit D-A convertor with a 5v reference voltage,
you have an output that will swing from 0v to 5v in 4096 0.0012v steps.
for an 8bit convertor, you have 256 19.5mv steps

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

Could you explain this in a bit more detail? A reference voltage is a just a constant voltage, regardless of load, right? So 5v regardless of the load. With the 12-bit D-A converter with a 5v reference voltage, I understand that 12-bits equal a maximum of 4096 combinations so I understand where the 4096 comes from. The 0.0012v steps...if you divide 5 / 4096, you get 0.0012v, so I think I understand where the 0.0012v comes from. But how do you change the steps? Do you just change the bits?

0000 0000 0000 = 0.0000v
0000 0000 0001 = 0.0012v
0000 0000 0010 = 0.0024v

Is that right? Thanks!

[stj]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

yes,
an A-D convertor in it's crudest form is a bunch of switches for each bit that connects a resistor between the output and the reference voltage - that can be anything as long as it's not higher than the main supply voltage.

so you could build a 4bit convertor by using a 4bit latch and a 100ohm resistor, a 200ohm resistor, a 400ohm resistor an an 800ohm resistor with all the resistors connected to the latch at one end and tied together at the other end.

old 8bit designs used a resistor ladder, some newer ones use a pwm and a capacitor to smooth the pulses into it's mean dc voltage.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

yes,
an A-D convertor in it's crudest form is a bunch of switches for each bit that connects a resistor between the output and the reference voltage - that can be anything as long as it's not higher than the main supply voltage.

so you could build a 4bit convertor by using a 4bit latch and a 100ohm resistor, a 200ohm resistor, a 400ohm resistor an an 800ohm resistor with all the resistors connected to the latch at one end and tied together at the other end.

old 8bit designs used a resistor ladder, some newer ones use a pwm and a capacitor to smooth the pulses into it's mean dc voltage.

Wow, that's so cool and makes sense to me! Why can't the reference voltage be higher than the main supply voltage though? Thanks!

[stj]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

there may be chips where the voltage can be higher, some are split rail and can also be lower than 0,
such as -5v - good for audio.

but in general it makes the silicon more complex, so you just put an op-amp on the output.
you should anyway because the output current is usually very low.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

An operational amplifier just amplifies voltage, right? From what you're saying though, it also amplifies current as well? Thanks!

[stj]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

it can amplify either.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

Thank you.

[AcGeorgiegirl]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

Hi,
Just my 2 cents as related to the idiot boyfriend...I train PEOPLE, and rehab their poor dogs, after their people screw them up!! Please watch this guy. His treatment of the dog, along with the fact that your sister has kid(s), is a disaster waiting to happen in the form of not just a dog getting abused, but the kids as well as their mom. You mentioned he's a fighter of some sort...all of these factors are what Child Welfare workers see as flags for abusers. I've also seen time and again that illegal dog fighting(using weaker dogs to "train" a fighting dog for killing) folks often use shock collars to MAKE a dog imbalanced. It's entertainment for their sick games.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

Hi,
Just my 2 cents as related to the idiot boyfriend...I train PEOPLE, and rehab their poor dogs, after their people screw them up!! Please watch this guy. His treatment of the dog, along with the fact that your sister has kid(s), is a disaster waiting to happen in the form of not just a dog getting abused, but the kids as well as their mom. You mentioned he's a fighter of some sort...all of these factors are what Child Welfare workers see as flags for abusers. I've also seen time and again that illegal dog fighting(using weaker dogs to "train" a fighting dog for killing) folks often use shock collars to MAKE a dog imbalanced. It's entertainment for their sick games.

That is absolutely horrible. So far, he hasn't treated the children in a bad way. He seems to be good to them, but there's something off about this guy. I'm not sure what exactly it is, but I just get this horrible feeling around him. Even my cats go nuts when they see. If they're sitting in the window or the little one is outside on the leash on the porch or something and they see him come out, they growl. I've never seen or heard a cat growl at a person before.

My sister decided to give the dog away. She put an ad on Facebook but my father, for some unknown reason, talked her out of it. However, I put the ad back up. People were saying it's horrible what she's doing, it's going to break the children's heart. They said just fencing the dog in would fix the problem. I said there's a lot more to it than the dog going into the road and going after people. I said it needs to be properly trained, it needs a lot of attention, love, etc. Stuff that my sister and her family just cannot provide at this time. She posted how the dog bit her child on the face and drew blood and how it wouldn't be a good dog around children. I said with the proper training, I think the dog would make the perfect companion.

[AcGeorgiegirl]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

I totally agree with you that just fencing would not resolve it...for the dog or your sister/kids. I understand folk's concern about the kids, but they don't understand the other factors, as you've mentioned. Dogs that are imbalanced this way are not "happy campers", irregardless of having safe yards to stay in, good food to eat...they need more. Unfortunately, these imbalances/bad behavior are ALWAYS the result of how a human has treated them. They aren't born with wacko behavior.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

Yes, and I think I now know why I get a bad feeling around this guy. It seems the more alcohol he gets him in, the more true of the person you see in him. It's almost like he puts on this facade when he's sober and tries to hide his true self but when he's drunk, you see the anger. I cannot control my sister or tell her to leave him, but I think this guy is much like a lot of the other men she had dated. Not sure why she's attracted to men like that. I don't think their relationship is going to last. Last night, they had a campfire and he was pretty trashed. He called me over for a little bit and you could he was a mean person. The comments he was making, etc. My youngest nephew was walking around in my sisters slippers, he kept asking if he was a "fag". I don't agree with guys wearing girls clothings and stuff, but I mean, come on, it's a little kid wearing his mum's flip flops. Should anyone being talking to a child like that? I don't think so. I think my sister is starting to see him for who he really is though.

I will say this much, although she seems to defend her boyfriend's actions, when it comes to her children, she seems to put them first, which is good. I try not to get involved in her business but one of my fears is one of these days, she's going to get with one of those guys who's not just verbally abusive, but physically abusive as well.

[stj]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

that's not a problem, just beat the crap out of him with a few m8's if he hits her.
people soon learn not to act that way after they get their turn on the recieving end.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

wtf thats some nasty shit torturing the dog.

btw, spork, the problem is not with the dog collar but the problem is in front of the remote. even if u disable the shock function of the dog collar, the guy may think the collar is malfunctioning and he may choose to get another one or send it for rma. u'll just keep chasing the problem endlessly. either get rid of the dog or the bf. im inclined to get rid of both. lol~

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Questions about modding a "Dog Training System"

I know it's sad, but I've talked her into getting rid of the dog. I hate to see stuff like this happen, but I guess she shouldn't have had a dog to begin with. She's just incapable of properly training one and I think once the "newness" wore off, it was just blah, you know? Animals aren't toys. She put an ad on Facebook. We're hoping someone we know takes the dog. I don't want to see the dog go to a worse home.