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Old 09-16-2019, 06:43 AM   #1
dicky96
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Default Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

Hi guys
I picked this up at the local flea market together with a couple of other motherboards. I got one working so far (quite nice retro gaming board Asus P5PE-VM LGA775 with Core 2 support and AGP slot), and if I sell that it will more than cover the cost of all three so happy days.

So these others are mine to play with

The Asrock Z87 Extreme4 I don't have a compatible CPU to test it with, though I can get a LGA1150 Celeron or i3 cheap enough, so I will order one to test this and other 1150 motherboards in future, but basically right now, testing without a CPU, it will not power on.

I get 3.3V on the onboard power button which drops to 0V when I press the button so that looks fine. But the Power supply won't start.

If I ground the Power-On pin on the ATX connector it powers up and I have all supplies 3.3V, 5V, 12V inc the 8pin 12V to the CPU. I don't have any VCore but maybe that is normal with no CPU fitted?

But I would have expected the PSU to come on when I press the Power On button seeing as I have 5.5VSB and 3.3V present.

I already fitted a new CMOS battery the original one was flat.

Is there anything I can check here before I get a CPU?

Rich
PS the third board I got is a GA-EP45C-UD3R. It has a low resistance on the 12V supply to the CPU and trips off the ATX supply so I'm looking at that now. It will power up with the 8 pin 12V unplugged. That could be another thread if I can't find the problem with the VRMs
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Old 09-16-2019, 03:37 PM   #2
cpt.charlie
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

In order to generate Vcore you need to have a processor installed as the motherboard needs to read the VID form the CPU.
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Old 09-16-2019, 04:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

Some boards will not power on without a CPU inside the socket. Not saying this is the case here, but I've already lost time trying to figure out a non-existant issue just because I assumed any board would turn on without CPU…

Try to grab schematics and/or boardview, it'll help in the troubleshooting process.
If not available, at least get a datasheet or pinout for the SIO.


For the Gigabyte board, replace all high-side MOSFETs and their drivers and it should be good to go. If CPU VCore has low resistance to ground without CPU, low-sides will have to be replaced too.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

Thanks, I'll leave this one on the TO DO pile until I get a suitable CPU

I was wondering is it possible (or useful) to force Vcore on without a CPU by connecting some pull up resistors, or by grounding some of the VID pins on the controller chip, therefore presenting a valid 6 bit code?

Rich

Last edited by dicky96; 09-17-2019 at 04:01 AM..
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

I'll put the GA-EP45C-UD3R on it's own thread
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:37 AM   #6
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

On older platforms you could do it since it was the old "VID" protocol with indeed just a 5-8 bits value to set on some pins of the VCore controller.
On newer platforms, it is the "SVID" protocol, Serial VID, that is used. It's an Intel proprietary protocol to have a serial communication (with a data and a clock line, plus an "alert" interrupt line) between the CPU and the VCore controller. It's not possible to know what happens there, much less control it (would need to find a leaked spec of the protocol, they are under NDA, or reverse engineer it and have the proper hardware).

However, some VCore controller can be configured to output a default voltage when nothing is received on SVID. They'll typically be configured to output 0V on a production board, but if you can find the datasheet of the IC you may be able to locate a pull-up or pull-down to replace to output a default value of 1.1V for example.
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Old 10-23-2019, 06:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

Hi guys
I bought an i3-4150 so I can test this and other LGA1150 motherboards

With the CPU fitted it does power up - for a second - then powers down again. After a couple seconds it powers up again. This loop continues ad nauseum

It does the same thing with the 12V CPU power connector disconnected.

With the 12V connected I can see that I have +5V + 12V + 3.3V all coming up for a second

I can also see I have Vcore 1.75V or thereabouts for a second


The PS_ON pin to the ATX PSU is going 3.3V-0V-3.3V. I forced that on and motherboard stays powered up but does not boot. My POST diagnostics cards (I have two now) give FF on one of them and 0000 on the other

I tried clear CMOS
I tried moving the jumper that says BIOS_SEL

All the above is with no RAM fitted but I did also try with 1x DDR3 in the first slot.

It doesn't make any difference.

This does look like the sort of thing that could happen with a corrupted BIOS but I would be surprised to have 2 corrupted BIOS chips. Still I thought I may as well try programming one of them

There are BIOS files on Asrock site for DOS, Windows and Instant Flash
http://tw.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp...Z87%20Extreme4

But none of them contain a BIN or ROM file and when I try to run the Windows version on this PC as administrator it just flashed up a blank DOS box and that's it. I hoped it may let me create a BIN file.

Any idea what else could be causing the problem on this motherboard, or how to write the BIOS with TL866?
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Old 10-23-2019, 06:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

Ahh I spotted the most likely cause of the problem after posting

This board has BIOS V2.30 and the site says need at least V2.60 to support the new 4h generation intel core processors

So probably I just need a way to flash it
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:06 AM   #9
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

I've flashed the BIOS chips with this file

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80275

I thought that may have fixed it, but it didn't

The motherboard is still powering on and off every couple of seconds

If I force the ATX power supply on then the motherboard powers up and stays up but it doesn't boot, POST card says 0000

Makes no difference if I have RAM fitted or not

Any suggestions?

Rich
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Old 10-29-2019, 06:04 AM   #10
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

Datasheet for the SIO: https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%2...NCT6776F,D.pdf
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

Hi SMDFlea funnily enough I was just gonna post that myself :-)

OK so I spent a bit more time on this today

Vcore is coming up to 1.75V for a couple seconds then going off. same with 3.3V 5V 12V from the PSU

If I force the PSU on then Vcore still comes up to 1.75V every few seconds but interestingly the duty cycle is shorter, stay up for maybe 1 second not two. Obviously 3,3V, 5V, 12V stay up.

I checked all the LGA socket pins under my microscope, there was some debris on one of them and I cleaned it off, but it made no difference.

I also tried flexing the motherboard when powered on - no difference.

I have noticed a few interesting things. Holding the power button in for some seconds shuts the power supply down as you would expect. But keeping reset held down makes no difference, it keeps on cycling.

Removing both BIOS chips also has no effect on this power cycling either.

I did look a the datasheet of the SIO - Pins 15 (System Clock 24/48MHz) and 17 (PCI Clock 33MHz) don't have any clock pulses on them that I can see.

So it looks like I have a board with no clock - again!

Other than those pins I checked on the SIO (15, 17) is there some more I should be looking at?

I'm not sure which is the Clock Generator - it could be this one Asmedia ASM1083, but I can't find a datasheet.

I decided to think 'out of the box' a little, and it occurs to me that if a motherboard is faulty it is quite possibly (even likely?) to be damage to a component which has contact with the outside world - Ethernet controller, USB controller etc

Now this is possibly interesting - I had a feel around those chips when the board is powering on-off, and the ASM1074, which the datasheet says is a 4 Port USB3.0 controller, is getting noticeable hot to the touch after the board is powered up for a few seconds. Not hot like it would burn you, but it's definitely generating some heat, not just tepid..... and nothing else is.
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Old 10-29-2019, 12:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

I've just studied the SIO datasheet LPC section and hardware monitor features- seems like a lot of signals I could check there

I'll report back once I have

Thanks
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Old 06-01-2020, 07:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 Not powering on

I had this same problem.
1 - First, check that there is no short circuit on the motherboard.
2 - Reset CMOS.
3 - With the power supply installed, brutally connect the PS-ON to the GND (Jumper on pins 16 and 17).
In my case, it just worked like that.
Good luck.
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