A guy I know gave me a box full of motherboards that were bad or going bad. This one just so happened to have an Athlon XP 2200+ installed in it. Only thing I could spot wrong with it was a potentially fried DDR RAM slot, and an OST on the VRM high that got so hot that the sleeve shrunk. Interesting how they used 16V caps for 5V in for the VRM. Probably just for the lower ESR. Just sitting at the BIOS, the exterior of those VRM high caps got to 63C. That's pretty warm...Besides the VRM, all the other caps on the board are GP. Was it just not necessary on older boards? They're all OST RLG. Would regular motherboard grade caps be too low for this old thing? I think this board is pretty neat. It does not have a fan controller, and the CPU fan is way too loud @ 12V. I made a custom little fan plug in for it that just gives 7.5V through a molex connector. The CPU still stays cool (especially with new thermal paste) but it's almost silent, at least compared to the 4,250RPM beforehand.
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Biostar M7VIG Pro
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Re: Biostar M7VIG Pro
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostOnly thing I could spot wrong with it was a potentially fried DDR RAM slot, and an OST on the VRM high that got so hot that the sleeve shrunk. Interesting how they used 16V caps for 5V in for the VRM. Probably just for the lower ESR. Just sitting at the BIOS, the exterior of those VRM high caps got to 63C. That's pretty warm...
Yes, they likely used the 16V caps for lower ESR. My JetWay N2PAP-Lite was like that too, except it used GSC ME caps (none of them were bad at the time of replacing, though).
By the way, this is the first BioStar motherboard I see with more than 5 caps for the VRM low side. Those empty spots look ashamed. Fill 'er up .
My vote goes for Panasonic FR of FM. Or even Chemicon KZE / Rubycon ZL will work. Save your valuable HM. HN, and HZs for something else that needs them. Those old Athlons run at 1.6V core or thereabouts, and they don't consume a whole lot of power, so it takes for quite a bit of ripple to appear on the VRM low side before things go bad. That's how they got away with using nearly general purpose crappy caps back in the days.
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostBesides the VRM, all the other caps on the board are GP. Was it just not necessary on older boards? They're all OST RLG. Would regular motherboard grade caps be too low for this old thing?
That said, there would be no harm from using very low ESR caps on these boards. In fact, even polies should be fine. I bet that burned RAM slot was a result of either somebody trying to remove the RAM while the PC was plugged in, or just those crappy OSTs.
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostI think this board is pretty neat. It does not have a fan controller
Wouldn't it be cool to set up a retro gaming cafe with these old boards one day? Like, maybe 10-20 years from now? I bet they would still work like a champ.Last edited by momaka; 02-04-2015, 07:29 PM.
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Re: Biostar M7VIG Pro
Originally posted by momaka View Post63C? Ouch.
Yes, they likely used the 16V caps for lower ESR. My JetWay N2PAP-Lite was like that too, except it used GSC ME caps (none of them were bad at the time of replacing, though).
By the way, this is the first BioStar motherboard I see with more than 5 caps for the VRM low side. Those empty spots look ashamed. Fill 'er up
and they don't consume a whole lot of power
Here's something interesting to note from a little experiment I did. With the exact same scenario (Just sitting at the BIOS) with the same PSU and ambient temperature, before and after the recap, the CPU idled 4C cooler afterwards.
Except the CPU VRM (and occasionally Northbridge on some motherboards), most stuff back in the day used linear regulators like 1084 or discrete circuit with MOSFETs. Therefore, general purpose caps worked fine for just about everything on those.
That said, there would be no harm from using very low ESR caps on these boards. In fact, even polies should be fine. I bet that burned RAM slot was a result of either somebody trying to remove the RAM while the PC was plugged in, or just those crappy OSTs
Yeah, looks like a decent board indeed. After all, this is the last generation of boards that used through-hole CPU sockets and leaded solder. Should be indestructible with a recap.
Wouldn't it be cool to set up a retro gaming cafe with these old boards one day? Like, maybe 10-20 years from now? I bet they would still work like a champ.
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Re: Biostar M7VIG Pro
^ 7V trick? I have that on a few "misbehaving" loud PCs as well .
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostI ended up recapping it I think later that day. I ended up using polymer caps for the VRM high since oddly, those caps ran much hotter than the VRM low. Maybe because of those FETs?
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostOuch, GSC ME? ... What did yours read?
That's how early Nichicon HN and HM from the defective batches seem to have failed.
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostBy the way, every single OST cap tested good. The VRM high were closest to being out of spec.
I guess this further proves that OST hate the heat.
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostReally? This thing is hungry. Just sitting at the "NO BOOT DEVICE DETECTED" screen, it was pulling 72W DC. This was just with one DDR RAM module, no peripherals, and even on board graphics.
Also, if I am not mistaken, on old boards like these, CPU HALT instructions aren't loaded until the OS kernel is. So what you are seeing may as well be the maximum that board will pull. And if not, the power draw under max CPU load won't be much higher than that.
I'm not sure which 2200+ you had, but here are a few:
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/AMD...2200DUV3C.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/AMD...2200DKV3C.html
You can see that the minimum and maximum power draw are about the same.
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostI replaced it with a 1.53GHz Athlon XP since it's not much slower and runs much cooler.
I have a 1.4 GHz Duron Applebred that also runs very cool (due to 1.5V core). But it only has a lame 64 kb of L2 cache .
Man, when I got that back in late 2003 and was able to play Half-Life 2, I was totally like this:
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostHere's something interesting to note from a little experiment I did. With the exact same scenario (Just sitting at the BIOS) with the same PSU and ambient temperature, before and after the recap, the CPU idled 4C cooler afterwards.
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostI have a pair of Barracuda IV's. Get this....One of them has 82,000 running hours on it, with no bad sectors And part of its life it was powered by a PSU with failed caps.
I have 3 of them (20 GB, 40 GB, and 60 GB). They all have a few bad sectors, but they have "settled" for a while now.Last edited by momaka; 02-04-2015, 09:49 PM.
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Re: Biostar M7VIG Pro
Originally posted by momaka View Post^ 7V trick? I have that on a few "misbehaving" loud PCs as well .
ESR *appeared* in spec, but the capacity on many of them was high and lingering on the border of +20%. I think one or two were above that. That tells me they were likely becoming leaky and ready to go soon (and GO they did ). And when caps go leaky, the ESR will appear fine on an ESR meter.
That's how early Nichicon HN and HM from the defective batches seem to have failed.
Interesting.
I guess this further proves that OST hate the heat.
Yes, those older AMDs were never able to scale down properly. This is typical for older CPUs on large nm technology, where idle power is almost the same as under full CPU load.
Also, if I am not mistaken, on old boards like these, CPU HALT instructions aren't loaded until the OS kernel is. So what you are seeing may as well be the maximum that board will pull. And if not, the power draw under max CPU load won't be much higher than that.
I have this one http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/AMD...2200DUV3C.html
Hmmm.. overclocking time then?
I have a 1.4 GHz Duron Applebred that also runs very cool (due to 1.5V core). But it only has a lame 64 kb of L2 cache
Man, when I got that back in late 2003 and was able to play Half-Life 2, I was totally like this:
Interesting. So seems like another theory is proven here - that good caps can lower your temperature a bit.
That is impressive! Barracuda IVs are amazing drives.
I have 3 of them (20 GB, 40 GB, and 60 GB). They all have a few bad sectors, but they have "settled" for a while now.
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Re: Biostar M7VIG Pro
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostGah, I said "cooler" and I meant "quieter" This trick is a lifesaver. I can't stand loud PC's anymore, which is one reason I like Topower PSU's so much, they're always incredibly silent.
I think the second loudest PC I have is my HP NetServer with its 10k RPM Maxtor Atlas HDD. I believe that is a ball bearing design too. The CPU fan already has the 7V trick and I removed the rear 92 mm fan, which was some DC Koala (or something like that) brand that is rated for several watts and is extremely loud on 12V. PSU is made by Astec, and the 80mm fan in it is quite loud too, even though it does have a thermal controller.
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostAh, typical. Doesn't help that they're very old. On the board I recapped, I even replaced all the little caps. All the <470uF caps tested perfectly.
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostYeah, it was kinda funny because I started a memtest on it, and the power usage only went up a couple watts. I thought these had no power saving features whatsoever?
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostYeah, poor things. That crippled them so much. I remember them being very slow.
Originally posted by Pentium4 View PostDo you know how many hours are on your drives?
Originally posted by dragos2009i have a system like that with athlon xp 1700+ 1gb of ram and the really great nvidia geforce 6600 belive me or not with that config i was able to play a lot games like call of duty mw3
I actually did a YouTube search, and people with similar setups were indeed able to run MW3. Granted most did it on 800x600 or lower and all settings on low... but I still find that impressive.
When Half-Life 2 first came out, my PC had *only* 256 MB of RAM, so I could only run the game at 640x480 and med-low details. When I upgraded to 640 MB, it felt like I had unlimited RAM . Then it ran at 800x600 and nearly maxxed .
That's with an Asus Radeon 9200 SE (stupid edition?) 64 MB video card.
Fun days .Last edited by momaka; 02-06-2015, 12:58 PM.
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