Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

[Tomcatciller]

Hello Guys,

First I must say I am from Germany, so I hope you understand my English.
I just signed these forum to learn something about soldering / modding and mostly repairing things.

2 months ago I decided to try a so called "Vdrop Mod" to increase the OC capability of my Asus P4C800E Deluxe. It is a well known problem that the board reduce Vcore on load to reduce heat and stress in the cpu. But this prohibit a high OC I want to reach, in my case I want to reach stable 24/7 4GHz OC on my P4 Extreme Edition 3400 CPU. (Link to my old system, sorry german).

The problem is/was, i don´t know anything about these mod and how to solder on such tiny circuits. My big fail was I used a normal 100 Watt soldering iron (like these) and destroyed the board because of heavy heat impact on the bord. Atm this board is still running well, but it cheeps very load from the area I raped it.

My question is, does anybody know these mod and know how to make it? I have added some pictures I have found on the Internet to this topic. It seems so there are many ways to solder this mod in.

Here are some links I found:
- Extreme Systems
- Overclock.net

Maybe I will try it again in the future, but first I need to learn how to solder on these small circuits and get some proper soldering tools. Some months ago I auctioned another P4C800E Dlx Board. But this was a fail. It is an old Rev 1.1 with Rev 2.0 Sticker with some serious scratches and missing resistors on the back and 2-3 bad capacitors. Today I auctioned another P4C800E Dlx. The seller told me all capacitors were ok, it is Rev 2.0 and it will have no scratches on back. Hope to get a good one finally.

Best regards

TCC

[cheapie]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

VDroop exists so that the CPU doesn't get fried when going from heavy to light loads. It's a VERY VERY VERY bad idea to lower it. If your CPU won't run at 4 GHz, then maybe you'll have to live with whatever it can do.

[brethin]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

The Asus P4C800E Deluxe is a great overclocking board and anyone who does the "Vdrop Mod" on it is just wasting a good board.

[Tomcatciller]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

2 Days ago my "new" P4C800E dlx arrived. Its looking good, I thought. All caps up the CPU socket were Rubycon ones. I can see no scratches or bad caps. According to revision numbers and mainboard marking this is the newest board of my P4C800E dlx collection (atm I have 4 boards, 3 wrecked).

The problem this board cannot detect my CPU (P4 Extreme Edition 3400 Mhz). I just flashed newest bios 1024.001. But it still refuses to detect my CPU, every restart/boot (also hot restart with turning pc off) the board the message "new CPU installed". I never had these message on my other P4C800E dlx boards.

I checked the bios battery, 2,78 V, seems ok.

My System spec is: link (german)

P4C800E dlx Bios 1024.001
Pentium IV Extreme Edition 3400 with Scythe Mugen 2 Rev B (OC @ 17x225=3825 Mhz /1,675 Vcore)
2x1GB Corsair CMX1024-3500LLPro (OC@ 225 Mhz FSB 1:1 Cl2-3-2-5-4 / 2,75 V)
Sapphire HD3850 512MB with Zalman VF900-CU and HSI Bridge cooler
Creative Audigy SB0090
WD Raptor 150 GB
Seagate 500GB
1 Floppy and 1 DVD Drive
Zalman Fan Control
PSU Enermx Liberty ELT500AWT

Has anybody a idea how to fix the "new CPU installed" issue?

Greets from Germany

TCC

[brethin]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

First thing is try a new battery anyway, ASUS likes fresh CMOS batteries 2.78V may be to low.

Second thing is Bios 1024.001 is a beta bios. Try flashing back to Bios 1017 and make sure you set bios to default settings after the flash. If that works and you get no warning then try bios 1024.001.

I have had many of these and managed to get most of them working when others gave up.

What is the spec # on the CPU?

What type of heatsink mounting are you using?

Some came with a backplate that would cut traces and solder points on the motherboards back side and cause issues because of the pressure over time of the cpu heatsink being clamped down.

I have also had a few of the boards that required (what seemed to be) extra pressure on the heatsink to get the cpu to make good contact in the socket.

[Tomcatciller]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

First thing is try a new battery anyway, ASUS likes fresh CMOS batteries 2.78V may be to low.

Just ordered some (Panasonic).

Second thing is Bios 1024.001 is a beta bios. Try flashing back to Bios 1017 and make sure you set bios to default settings after the flash. If that works and you get no warning then try bios 1024.001.

Tried 1017 / 1019 (as it was from seller) / 1023 - same problem
Tried annother working bios chip form one of my brocken P4C800E dlx with 1024.001 - same problem

What is the spec # on the CPU?

Intel Pentium 4 Extreme Edition 3.4 GHz SL7CH supported since Bios 1016 - never had problem with other P4C800E dlx and 1024.001 Bios

What type of heatsink mounting are you using? Some came with a backplate that would cut traces and solder points on the motherboards back side and cause issues because of the pressure over time of the cpu heatsink being clamped down.

I use Scythe Mugen 2 Rev B Cooler. He has a padded backplate. Never had any problems with other P4C800E dlx.

I have also had a few of the boards that required (what seemed to be) extra pressure on the heatsink to get the cpu to make good contact in the socket.

Red this in other threads regarding to this topic. Tried to improve pressure by adding flat washers and even 4 small nuts. But I refuse to tighten the screws too much in this situation. I don´t want to crack the board. But never had problems with my other P4C800E dlx boards and this cooler. Last alternative is my old Zalman CNPS7000-cu. But I dont think this will solve the problem, so I dont tested him yet.

Just same strange things I experienced with this error:

If the failure appears, only the CPU OC settings went away. All other Bios settings stay the same. The failure appears when restarting under WIN XP SP3 Prof, no error with dos bootable floppy disk (restart CTRL-ALT-DEL)

[Tomcatciller]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

Just a thing I noticed.

I turn off the pc and unplug the power cable for 2 minutes. I pluged the power cable back and turn the pc on agin. All bios setups were gone. Maybe this time the solution is simple, but I cannot imagine a 2,78 V CR2032 can cause such failure. I will return when I replaced the battery.

Short question: Why I cannot edit my previous post?

Greets from Germany

TCC

[kc8adu]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

replace that battery already!
likely the whole problem.
also i had a few with leaky diodes that would kill the battery fast.
these were among asus best boards as far as long term reliability.i have only junked 2 and 1 was a watercooler leak.
2 was a lightning strike.
look for my poly mod thread and really fix it up!

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

The Asus P4C800E Deluxe is a great overclocking board and anyone who does the "Vdrop Mod" on it is just wasting a good board.

I will totally agree with that too.
I have in use one P4P800E Dlx and as spare in a carton box one P4C800E dlx which was a 200 Euro motherboard.

This fucking around with Vdroop started before ages after Toms Hardware posted a OC video of it.

It is very hard to convince uneducated people regarding electronics of why it is NOT wise to do that.

From the other hand extreme overclock were always a GAME, why I should take it more seriously that what it is?

Possibly because I am one of those morons who payed 300 Euro for the magic OCZ 2-2-2-5 Platinum memory and spent ever more on buying extreme PSU and the SLK-900 special copper cooler.

Those ASUS boards is a bucket with out bottom about spending money and dreaming bragging rights.

P4C800E Deluxe is a fantastic stable motherboard with Raid and single IDE controllers, use it at default or build a file server with it, and you will be happy for ages.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

The problem this board cannot detect my CPU (P4 Extreme Edition 3400 Mhz).

Your PSU is not strong enough at the 3,3V rails.
The best suggestion is a 512K (first level) CPU and that's it, even a crappy PSU can handle that.

[Tomcatciller]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

It is very hard to convince uneducated people regarding electronics of why it is NOT wise to do that.

Well, I just did something wrong. Mistakes happen. I pay the price by buying these boards over and over again. And believe me, on German ebay these are not very cheap. The fact that atm I have 4 of them is the problem that most of these boards come damaged to me. Deep scratches on back, broken Fets, bad caps etc. I just raped one of them with tryin to Vdrop mod it. Sadly that was the only good working one for 24/7 use over 3 years. I will not try this again.

Your PSU is not strong enough at the 3,3V rails.
The best suggestion is a 512K (first level) CPU and that's it, even a crappy PSU can handle that.

Hm, I never had problems with this psu and cpu before with other P4C800E dlx Boards. Is enermax realy a bad psu maker? My ELT500AWT has these specs. 28A on 3,3 is too weak for my system?

Just some readings right now (SpeedFAN)

System Desktop Idle:

Vcore 1,70 V
+12V 12,16V
+3,3V 3,26V
+5V 5,07 V
vbat 0,0 V

System ultra max load (Intel BurnTest + Furmark)

Vcore 1,55 V
+12V 11,92 V
+3,3V 3,22 V
+5V 5,01 V
vbat 0,0 V

System Boot (Bios Hardware Monitor)

Vcore 1,616 V
+12V 11,977 V
+3,3V 3,264 V
+5V 5,08 V

Should I look for another psu or maybe open my Enermax to see if something is wrong?

The best suggestion is a 512K (first level) CPU and that's it, even a crappy PSU can handle that.

I don´t want to use a Prescott or Northwood CPU. Gallatin is just fine and faster than the other P4 S478 CPUs.

Greets from Germany

TCC

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

For some reason which I am unable to explain those P4C800E dlx worked even more stable with some specific PSU of that era which were able to over-volt the 3.3V rail.
In the end you were getting 3.4V from them.

P4C800E dlx was made for Northwood, Prescott was somewhat in specifications of what the motherboard can handle regarding currents but up to 3.0 GHz with 3.2GHz the ultimate limit.

INTEL moved to the next generation of CPU because of the voltage / current bottlenecks which were caused by the socket it self, the amount of pins are not enough to drive the needed current at the CPU.

Vdroop were invented by sophisticated geeks with good skills in electronics,
the result was just a bit of power but never payed out as solution.
It was all that they could do but it was not enough.

You and over 1 million hardcore overclockers like me, we crashed all in this wall, not even one make it to jump over it.
And so we jumped too to the next socket and we morn our cash about spending so much on something which is not worth it.
Yes I have gained the experience to write down those lines today, and it was fun trying to jump that high, but in the end it is a waste of time and money.

[Tomcatciller]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

Hm, CR2032 still not here, waiting for arrival.

But Kiriakos GR post to psu problems bring me to the idea to check my Enermax Liberty EWT500ALT. And yes there is one, or maybee 2 bad caps.

I dont know which voltage rail they belong, but to increase stability this must be fixed. Maybe this cause these "all of the sudden pc turn offs" with all my 4 P4C800E dlx boards. It was random, most time when I connect a usb device the pc turns immediately off and sometimes dont turn one for some time. Unplug the power cable of the psu and wait for 10 minutes solved the problem the most time.

I never thought this was a psu problem because I thought Enermax was a very good psu manufacturer. I thought this was the common known "USB latchup" problem with or in the southbridge.

Well I will try to make a complete recap of the psu and try it again later. I will ask the questions relating to this topic in another thread.

Greets from Germany

TCC

[Tomcatciller]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

Ok guys, I just repaired my Enermax Liberty psu and put a new bios battery on the board. I checked the new battery before, it has 3,3 V. The old one had 2,87 V.

But all this don´t fix the problem. The board still boots with "new CPU installed" message. Any ideas?

Meanwhile OC ability get a little bit better due to the psu recapping.
Mostly the 12V and 3,3 V line got more stable and stay stable under heavy load, but also in idle or Bios.

The only problem now is the "new CPU installed" issue. Can anybody help?

Edit:

I turn off the pc ans switched the psu off, after 2 min psu on and boot. All bios setups were gone. Wtf, I just put a new 3,3V Bat on it... SpeedFan say Vbat = 0,0 V....

Edit2:

I put the new 3,3 V bat out of the board and measured it. It has 3,21 V.... Where gone 0,09 V in 2 minutes....

Greets from Germany

TCC

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

1) This CPU is unknown to your BIOS_ AUTO Save does not work.

2) Settings does not saved by auto detection? Save them by your self in the BIOS screen.

3) Battery voltage issue? If date & time stays correct ..There is NO such issue.

4) END of the story.

[Tomcatciller]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

1) This CPU is unknown to your BIOS_ AUTO Save does not work.

CPU is well supported since BIOS 1016. click Never had such problems with 3 P4C800E Dlx Boards before...

2) Settings does not saved by auto detection? Save them by your self in the BIOS screen.

I don´t use auto detection. I am overclocking my CPU. So every entry in Bios is set up by myself. Even beside CPU settings. I use successfully this bios settings for 3 other P4C800E dlx Boards, and this is the first time I got this failure! This is a Motherboard fail!

3) Battery voltage issue? If date & time stays correct ..There is NO such issue.

-> If I take power away form system (psu off, cable unpluged), all bios settings go away. Including date & time and ALL other settings. "New CPU installed" message occurs too.

-> If I just turn the pc off, but leave the psu on standby, the error occurs. Message see picture 1. If I press F1 key I go in the bios and and found all bios settings in the condition I set them up before except the FSB. See picture 2. It goes back to 200 Mhz every time.

But don´t think this is a oc failure. When I leave 200 FSB, the "New CPU installed" message occurs too! The Board don´t boot without this message, except I reboot from DOS environment.

4) END of the story.

Not true. AGAIN: I have 3 other P4C800E dlx Boards and this error occurs the first time! There is also a possible reason for this failure, the user kc8adu posted it before:

also i had a few with leaky diodes that would kill the battery fast.

I just wrote him a pm to get more information on this.

Greets

TCC

[Tomcatciller]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

I just switched to a P4 C 2600 Northwood and my old Zalman CNPS7000 cooler with Intel retention module...

Problems gone!

Now I go back to my old rig setup step by step and try to find the error!

Greets

TCC

[Tomcatciller]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

Ok, problem solved. It was the Cooler "Scythe Mugen 2 Rev B."

The cooler Backplate to be precise. It may be the exact thing posted in the 5th post in this thread:

Some came with a backplate that would cut traces and solder points on the motherboards back side and cause issues because of the pressure over time of the CPU-heatsink being clamped down.

The original backplate of the "Scythe Mugen 2 Rev B." has different shape compared to original Intel Retention module.

It covers several pins of caps. The 7 caps above the CPU socket to be precise. Normally the Mugen 2 backplate has some sort of soft isolation material on the back. But over the time these material gets penetrated by the pins of the caps. So maybe the pins where shortened.

Now I use a Intel Retention module backplate and it works fine. No more "New cpu installed" message. No more Bios loss on power off conditions.

Problem solved. Thx to the badcap community for help.

Now just some words for my future plans. The P4C800E dlx I have fixed now will stay untouched as my secondary rig. Maybe it will go to my mother as internet and office computer for daily use.

Now I have 3 other PC800E dlx Boards here. I will try to make a "3 to 1 repair" action to get one of the remaining boards running. Maybe complete poly mod recapping. Then I will try to make the Vdrop mod again to make it a good over-clocking device. Right now a Asus CT479 Adapter arrived. My intention is to buy a Pentium M 780 and pull it up to 2,8-3 Ghz.

Greetings from Germany

TCC

[brethin]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

Ok, problem solved. It was the Cooler "Scythe Mugen 2 Rev B."

The cooler Backplate to be precise. It may be the exact thing posted in the 5th post in this thread:

The original backplate of the "Scythe Mugen 2 Rev B." has different shape compared to original Intel Retention module.

It covers several pins of caps. The 7 caps above the CPU socket to be precise. Normally the Mugen 2 backplate has some sort of soft isolation material on the back. But over the time these material gets penetrated by the pins of the caps. So maybe the pins where shortened.

Now I use a Intel Retention module backplate and it works fine. No more "New cpu installed" message. No more Bios loss on power off conditions.
]Problem solved. Thx to the badcap community for help.

Now just some words for my future plans. The P4C800E dlx I have fixed now will stay untouched as my secondary rig. Maybe it will go to my mother as internet and office computer for daily use.

Now I have 3 other PC800E dlx Boards here. I will try to make a "3 to 1 repair" action to get one of the remaining boards running. Maybe complete poly mod recapping. Then I will try to make the Vdrop mod again to make it a good over-clocking device. Right now a Asus CT479 Adapter arrived. My intention is to buy a Pentium M 780 and pull it up to 2,8-3 Ghz.

Greetings from Germany

TCC

That is not a common known issue with these boards and one that took me some time to discover but served me well when buying bad boards to repair and resell back in the high dollar days of the P4C800E Deluxe, thought I would share it now considering I am no longer in that market.

I know a few other tips about these and other ASUS boards I may share sometime later.

Folks here seem to hate ASUS and hate XFX, the 2 companies I like the most and have most of my knowledge in as far repairing them so I just keep it to myself.

I would take ASUS over any other board considering all the factors.

[TELVM]

Re: Tried to "Vdrop mod" my P4C800E Deluxe - destroyed it

You don't need risky soldering to keep vdroop at bay, you just need a pencil .

"... as the resistance needed to be added is very low, graphite can be substituted in place of a variable or fixed resistor(s).
Simply use a pacer (mechanical pencil with a thin tip) and 2H - 2B graphite, and lightly shade between legs 17 and 18 of the ADP 3180 chip. Check vdroop, add more graphite if droop still unsatisfactory, or if vcore rises under load, remove some graphite with a paintbrush or cotton tip ..."

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...cil-Vdroop-mod

This is as ghetto as they come but works like a charm, after some penciling the max Vdroop is ~0.02 V .