HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

[captainKKK]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

OP is apparently claiming that 250GB WD drive has similar problems. I'd hold off on tossing a 3T drive until I was pretty sure the problem wasn't pebcak or related!

LOL pebcak, I learned some new 20 something slang to use on my customers....

Hey Curious.George, mind sharing the name of your testing SW for hard drives? After reading this forum I am gonna have to say, have you tried formatting these offending hard drives ON A DIFFERENT COMPATIBLE HOST?

[Behemot]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

So far I got success with the 250gig 2,5" drive, bypassing the damaged space there is 140GB usable partition good for data and 50GB partition good even for OS for some ages old, slow and cheap system (like this HP 530, for example).

The 2TB green seems to also work this way, currently in the process of formatting 655GB partition, next to already working 1200GB partition…so I'll pretty much use almost the whole capacity, not bad

[Behemot]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

I think you should talk about it to some specialist. Just take it easy, all right?

[Curious.George]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Kinda difficult when they already are (s)crapped mr. clever! Besides, I really see no reason to differentiate brands and models when clearly DIFFERENT drives from different series and even generations are affected, and yet too many of them to consider that coincidence are affected.

Besides, keeping about 2 TB from 3TB drives is way too much of candy (and movies and other pr0n) to let go just like that…

For example, I've had nothing but bad luck with WD Green drives. So much so that the three 2TB Greens that I pulled from this latest server will go straight to the scrapper WITHOUT being tested (why waste 3 hours on each drive only to discover problems??)

And, if every drive was failing at sector XXXX, then I'd look hard at driver and MB related issues. Saying "2/3" doesn't mean sh*t. Is it ACTUALLY 2/3? Or, 35/52? Maybe 95/141?? Or, is that just the limit of your arithmetic skills? I'd wager that it wasn't "2/3" and that the fraction you experienced on the 250G drive was different than on the 3TB drive -- yet you only offer up one figure: "2/3".

I sure hope no one ever asks you to design a bridge or anything where details actually MATTER! (I suspect you're a "board swapper"... as that limits you to just a few diagnostic choices when faced with any technical problem: it's either board A, B or C!)

[Behemot]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Kinda difficult when they already are (s)crapped mr. clever! Besides, I really see no reason to differentiate brands and models when clearly DIFFERENT drives from different series and even generations are affected, and yet too many of them to consider that coincidence are affected.

Besides, keeping about 2 TB from 3TB drives is way too much of candy (and movies and other pr0n) to let go just like that…

[Sparkey55]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

maybe, just maybe, you know, like... Provide real data in your reports!

I don't think it is too hard to say:

"make/model drive failed when running program xxx reporting ok until sector yyy was accessed, then went offline. Attempts to talk to drive controller resulted in ____. Device not seen as verified by _____. Experiment repeated (after cooldown -- or not!) with results that were identical/different in the following ways... Then tried the same experiment with another make/model that showed similar problems: X, y and z. And, yet another comparable drive that showed no problems (to help rule out a problem in your setup)"



think better of us and provide hard data that you can see but are too lazy to report to us, in detail.

My disk wiper logs the details of every failure so i don't risk folks discarding drives only to discover there is a problem in the test rig, software or test procedure. I'll trust my own wetware to see if there is any pattern in the "failed" drives before pronouncing them "defective". I won't expect an operator/user to have those sorts of observation skills!

I ran a batch of 22 assorted drives through it last week and found two that were clearly defective. But, also noted that another was performing at such an abysmal rate that it is either destined for failure or is simply too crappy to justify keeping. I know that only because the software takes lots of notes throughout the process (retries, remaps, data rate, etc.) to notice aberrant behaviors -- things that a casual (likely unmotivated) observer wouldn't notice!

+10,000

[Curious.George]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Yeah, guess what, I am claiming multiple different drives from different series of different manufacturers seem to suffer from this problem:

Maybe, just maybe, you know, like…do your reading…again?

Maybe, just maybe, you know, like... PROVIDE REAL DATA IN YOUR REPORTS!

I don't think it is too hard to say:

"Make/Model drive failed when running program XXX reporting OK until sector YYY was accessed, then went offline. Attempts to talk to drive controller resulted in ____. Device not seen as verified by _____. Experiment repeated (after cooldown -- or not!) with results that were identical/different in the following ways... Then tried the same experiment with another make/model that showed similar problems: x, y and Z. And, yet another COMPARABLE drive that showed NO problems (to help rule out a problem in your setup)"

Some of the drives were tested hooked to two or three different controllers each under different OS. I think that obviously if I have not ruled such thing already and I was not seeing that for wayyyy different drives, I would not be asking here about such stuff, right? C'mon, dude! I am no frelling beginner in this, think better of me will ya

Think better of US and provide hard data that you can see but are too lazy to report to us, in detail.

My disk wiper logs the DETAILS of every failure so I don't risk folks discarding drives only to discover there is a problem in the test rig, software or test procedure. I'll trust my own wetware to see if there is any pattern in the "failed" drives before pronouncing them "defective". I won't expect an operator/user to have those sorts of observation skills!

I ran a batch of 22 assorted drives through it last week and found two that were clearly defective. But, also noted that another was performing at such an abysmal rate that it is either destined for failure or is simply too crappy to justify keeping. I know that only because the software takes lots of notes throughout the process (retries, remaps, data rate, etc.) to notice aberrant behaviors -- things that a casual (likely unmotivated) observer wouldn't notice!

[Behemot]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Yeah, guess what, I am claiming multiple different drives from different series of different manufacturers seem to suffer from this problem:

…Basically especially large-size drives (2+ TB, but also seen that for 250GB 2.5" drive too)…

Maybe, just maybe, you know, like…do your reading…again?

Some of the drives were tested hooked to two or three different controllers each under different OS. I think that obviously if I have not ruled such thing already and I was not seeing that for wayyyy different drives, I would not be asking here about such stuff, right? C'mon, dude! I am no frelling beginner in this, think better of me will ya

Plus I have no idea where that talk about platters not spinning came from. I clearly stated the drives SHUT DOWN. They go dead. Disappear from device manager. Until power cycled again. Maybe you'll understand it said in this way better?

It has nothing in common with any overheating, it depends always no matter what the internal or external temperature is. One of the affected drives is 2TB WD Green, cut down to some 1200 gigs, I've already put gazillion of TV series on it, runs 24/7 for several weeks now just fine. That's while working ONLY on the first 1200GBs, not further.

There's simply SOMETHING screwed up between the platters/heads-electronics-firmware. Since WD claims there is no new FW for at least this particular drive, guess we can rule FW out, at least the general part, maybe drive-specific (service) data are bad, but nobody here sees inside this thing I guess. The problem also appears to develope over time, and does NOT happen anywhere else on the surface, so I expect it is not connected with the heads rather then the particular SECTORS, aka SURFACE.

That happening to multiple drives from WD or Seagate makes mi kinda wonder WHAT the heck exactly is bad inside them that it results in same same behavior, instead the usual reallocation of sectors when it does behave strange when you try to WRITE over it.

[Curious.George]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Seagate 3TB HDD's have a high failure rate anyway. I'd stay away from these.

OP is apparently claiming that 250GB WD drive has similar problems. I'd hold off on tossing a 3T drive until I was pretty sure the problem wasn't pebcak or related!

[CapLeaker]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Seagate 3TB HDD's have a high failure rate anyway. I'd stay away from these.

[Curious.George]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Guess you must have ACCIDENTALLY missed posts #10 and #12.

It's unclear what you are claiming in #12. What exactly did you do? Which drive (the original? or "the small WD"?) Are you now claiming a 250GB 2.5" drive is ALSO failing at "2/3" (which is now a completely different LBA number)?

Do you really think different drives (and sizes) all have a problem at 2/3 offset?

You've obviously ruled out the common aspect in each of these cases: the PC!? (and whatever software you are using)

[Behemot]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Guess you must have ACCIDENTALLY missed posts #10 and #12.

[Curious.George]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Did you read the thread before posting this, at all?

Yes.

when writing to it, at aprox. 2/3 the surface, likely after reaching a particular sector, they just shut down

Cuting the rotten space off by partition and using only the first 2/3rds of the total capacity appears to work.

Note that "reaching a particular sector" doesn't have to mean that there is a surface defect. Rather, it can mean that the software is processing a certain LBA number (and has a bug). Or, the head assembly is being tasked with displacing a certain amount INTO the surface. Or, ...?

If you're always "getting there" from the start of the volume, then a certain amount of elapsed time (at high duty cycle) has passed.

[I had a DSL modem that would drop connections after a fixed amount of traffic -- regardless of the nature of the traffic. An internal counter would overflow and it would drop the connection. Try again. And again. And again. Nope!]

To remove the apparent physical configuration of the drive at the time of failure (that "spot") from the equation, you need a way to seek to that point WITHOUT having to "start from 0" each time (to rule out a duty-cycle related problem).

If, instead, you started your test in that general vicinity, then a problem with that "spot" on the media (whether it is surface, head assembly or whatever) should manifest VERY QUICKLY! If, instead, the process continues to a point that is obviously BEYOND the original hangup location, then you can rule out that part of the surface and the other related electronic and mechanical aspects of accessing that "spot" -- cuz you were able to do so by starting from a different location/offset!

E.g., assume there are 100 sectors on the volume and that it's crapping out at sector #66. If you cut the drive into two partitions -- [0,49] and [50,99] -- then you would expect to be able to wipe the first partition non-stop, all day long (i.e., not thermal related, either!)... IF the problem was related to "66" in some way (electrically, mechanically, software, etc.)

OTOH, if you tried to wipe the second partition, you would expect the failure to manifest VERY QUICKLY... after just "~16" sectors. But, if the process continues to completion for the entire second partition -- [50,99] -- then it's hard to argue that there is something physically/electrically/mechanically wrong with "66"!

I see nothing in the thread to suggest that you've tried "skipping the first half of the volume" (in my example). Rather, you've assumed that skipping the last THIRD of the volume "fixes" the problem:

Cuting the rotten space off by partition and using only the first 2/3rds of the total capacity appears to work.

This doesn't eliminate "66" from the list of possible causes. OTOH, if you repartition the drive with the values I suggested (by way of example), then you should be able to endlessly write the first (non-66) partition OR the last partition without any problem IF it is unrelated to "66".

[Behemot]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Regardless, its trivial to TEST if this is indeed the case -- and not a consequence of run-time, etc. -- just by deliberately positioning at that place (vicinity) at the START of your test (instead of waiting a long time to get to that place "eventually")

Did you read the thread before posting this, at all?

[stj]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

clicky-click - yes, most drives will just seek forever!!
only drives intended for raids will quit and send a fail message instantly.

[Curious.George]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

Even if that is the case I don't believe the HDD will spin down for that either. It just wouldn't read and the heads go back and forth.

Do you really think the controller (in the disk) will sit there tweaking the head assembly (in and out) FOREVER without taking some sort of action?

(I may drag out a discardable disk to test this -- pull the covers off and cram a Q-tip in the head assembly to prevent it from moving beyond a certain point just to see what it does...)

[CapLeaker]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

No, but the head assembly may be encountering some problem trying to extend across the media to that point.)

Even if that is the case I don't believe the HDD will spin down for that either. It just wouldn't read and the heads go back and forth.

[Curious.George]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

I don't think that a "bad surface" makes the HDD spin down.

No, but the head assembly may be encountering some problem trying to extend across the media to that point.

Regardless, its trivial to TEST if this is indeed the case -- and not a consequence of run-time, etc. -- just by deliberately positioning at that place (vicinity) at the START of your test (instead of waiting a long time to get to that place "eventually")

[CapLeaker]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

I don't think that a "bad surface" makes the HDD spin down. That one would be the first doing that. In extreme cases the platter looked like one had sanded it and fine metal particles inside the HDD while opening. So the HDD had actually seized because of the fine metal dust.
What you are describing is different. I don't think it is anything mechanical either, because it takes quite a bit of force to make the HDD stop spinning. Never the less, I wouldn't trust that HDD and throw it out.

[Behemot]

Re: HDDs shutting down at 2/3 of the surface when writing on them?

No joy, shuts down in the very same manner. It also couldn't be anything like that mysterious supermagnetism as this bloody 250gig 2.5" drive is way too old with too low capacity per square unit (unlike the 3TB drives). I think that they just started screwing up big time, after only 30 years of making hard drives. What other explanation there could be? What could be so bad on the surface that it makes the electronics go crazy and shut down instead of just marking the area bad and reallocating the sectors?