Sanyo fake caps?

[Lunatz]

Hi Badcaps users,

I'm new and I've just discovered this forum ! I've read lots of topics, and discovered that even capacitors can be faked, and most of the eBay-sold caps are fake !

Several days ago, I have received 5 Sanyo capacitors, bought at a (very) cheap on eBay...

Even that I think these are surely fake, I would like your confirmation, and if it is recommanded to use them to replace SamXon dead caps into my old 19" 930BF samsung screen. Is there a risk of damaging my screen?

I've tried to open one of them, to see if the Sanyo capacitor have an other capacitor inside, but cannot finally open it (the rubber is hard to "remove").

Thank you !
Attached to this post : 3 pictures of the caps.

[mockingbird]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

I have never seen that type of vent style before... It looks like the machine that stamps the + on the vent is out of alignment...

The vent style for Sanyo is a type of "k". That is a fake... They're definately trying to hide it because they're trying to use more genuine-looking bunges.

[mariushm]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

I don't think it was an alignment issue for the top.

The http://capacitor.web.fc2.com/ website shows lots of manufacturers using that top, among them Canicon and Choyo used that type of top for example... there's even a picture on Wikipedia showing Teapo with a similar top:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Badcaps-choyo.jpg



But yeah, they're probably not Sanyo.

[mockingbird]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

No...

That's not the same type of vent (Though it is somewhat of a hybrid between the two)...

That "Teapo" shown is not a Teapo, it's a Hermei... That's Hermei's vent style, found on many brands, all resleeved, but ultimately manufactured by Hermei.

[ben7]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

Interesting, I have seen sanyo caps with the 'K' vent and this type of vent too.

I think the difference between the sanyo and hermei is that the single line in the middle, is much shorter on the sanyo caps.

-Ben

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

I've seen that vent on very old Sanyo caps. (P2 and P3 boards.)
They were Sanyo WX Series and were also missing the series mark [as those are...]
I think they are legit - but really old.
Talking like 10+ years old probably.
.
I'm talking about the one in Post#1 with the short center bar.
The green one in Post#3 is a fake if it says Sanyo.
.

[Scenic]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

The green one in Post#3 is a fake if it says Sanyo.
.

Says Teapo.. you can clearly see it in the full-res pic after playing with the image a bit. Odd vent for a Teapo though. I've only ever seen those with the "mercedes with dots" style. Looks more like Hermei than anything else..

As for the OP.. They look OK, but very old. What does the datecode say exactly? It's the line that starts with S.E. ....
Also from what I've read, if there's no proper series marking (like for example "WG", which is missing on yours), they're (old?) WX series. Those probably won't be good enough for PSU use (?)

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

Date code looks like Dec 1995.
(I really don't think they used that vent in 2005.)
.
S.E.(Y)(M)
.
Months go: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,O,N,D
.
.
Probably a good idea to reform them if they will see more than 12v.
.

[mockingbird]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

Aren't Sanyos with gold letters and no series label always WG?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

Nope.
WX uses those colors too.
.
I think I have a board full of them that included the series marking in a junk box.
If it's still around I'll take some pics.
[Old Gateway NLX board, not worth anything...]
.
.
[Total guess here]
I suspect that early on WX was Sanyo's only low ESR series and the gold meant Low ESR.
Since they only had one low ESR series and the gold ID'ed them they didn't feel the need to mark them with WX too.
Later when WG came out they had to start marking the WX too.
- Like I said, that's speculation..
.

[Lunatz]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

The ones on the photo are SE 5D.

The one I've tried to open was SE 64.

So, you said those are (seems to be) legit but very old!

Is it safe to use them into a 19' LCD screen that require preferably low ESR caps?

Thanks!

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

Is it safe to use them into a 19' LCD screen that require preferably low ESR caps?

Reform them.
That means to put them on a DC voltage starting at like 1 or 2 volts and slowing raise it to the rated 25v over an hour to an hour and a half [for caps that old].
They usually say to use a resistor [forget what size] but I don't think that's really needed when you start at under 2v and step manually.
.
When caps sit around the oxide layer on the aluminum gets thin by dissolving into the electrolyte.
The oxide layer is the actual dielectric - it's not the paper separator as some think.
If it's too thin and you apply full voltage the DC Leakage Current can be high enough to short the cap.
By raising the voltage slowly there won't be enough current to short the cap [even with a thin dielectric] and the electrolyte has time to replace the oxide layer by what amounts to electrolysis.
[Basically the layer is getting thicker as you raise the voltage.]
On the highest voltage you are going to use leave it for 1 minute per month of age. [After you've stepped up to that voltage.]
.
When you are done it will be nearly as good as a brand new factory fresh cap.
.
If it's going on a low voltage circuit [like 12v or less] you can usually skip it and let it reform in circuit but those appear to be REALLY old so reforming just to be safe wouldn't be a bad idea.
.
Also they are 25v caps.
If you KNOW they are going on 12v then you really don't need to reform them to 25v, you can stop at 12v. But you still need to do it slowly over about an hour. [The oxide ions have to have time to move through the liquid and paper from wherever they settled.]
.

[Lunatz]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

Thanks for explaining the caps "reforming" process PCBONEZ, I was just reading some results from Google, trying to understand.

Unfortunately, I have not the stuff to do such a process !


Anyway,

I have to replace 2x 16V 1000uF caps, and 2x 25V 1000uF caps.

I've just ordered Rubycon ZLH 35V 1000uF (I bought higher voltage, It's OK right? Thanks for confirming me this... since I have only a very basic knowledge before reading some of the topics on here).

Better wait for them to arrive?

Thanks!

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

In a pinch you can use an ATX PSU for a ghetto reformer as so:

3.3v & 5v => 1.7v
Ground & 3.3v => 3.3v
Ground & 5v => 5v
5v & 12v => 7v
3.3v & 12v => 8.7v
Ground & 12v => 12v
.
Leave it on each one for about 10 minutes.
On 12v leave it for 10 minutes + 1 minute per month of age.
[Adjust accordingly for caps rated for less than 12v.]
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

I have to replace 2x 16V 1000uF caps, and 2x 25V 1000uF caps.

I've just ordered Rubycon ZLH 35V 1000uF (I bought higher voltage, It's OK right? Thanks for confirming me this... since I have only a very basic knowledge before reading some of the topics on here).

Higher voltage is fine but as I dunno what the old caps were I can't say if ZLH or WX specs are good enough for ESR or Ripple.
.
In a screen they typically would be good enough, but not always.
The very first screen I ever did had a few caps rated more like MBZ.
Found since that that is unusual, but it happens.
.

[Lunatz]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

The originals caps are:

2x Samxon GF 1000uF 16V 10x20
2x Samxon GF 1000uF 25V 10x20
1x Samxon GF 470uF 25v

Actually, It is the exact same problem I found here :
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5781

Besides, and according to the Samxon GF series datasheet, the bad caps specs are :

Samxon GF 1000uF 16V 10x20
Impedance : 0.060
Ripple current : 1210

Samxon GF 1000uF 25V 10x20
Impedance : 0.046
Ripple current : 1400

Samxon GF 470uF 25v
Impedance : 0.080
Ripple current : 865

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

Oh, THOSE.
.
As long as:
- the ESR is the same or less.
- the Ripple is the same or more.
You'll be fine.

It looks like you already know how to check.
.

[Lunatz]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

Haha !

Have I to change the "small" 470 uF 25V one (and the huge 450V one?), or just the four 1000 uF?
It is recommanded to recap all old Samxon (craps)?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

There are two or three older Samxon series that are notorious for being junk.
Most commonly used in LCD screens and TV's.
GF is one of them that shows up a lot.
Also GL and I think GS, but that might be a brain fart.
.
Their GA, GC, GD, and RS series are fine.
I basically never see any of their others so I dunno about those.
.

[Lunatz]

Re: Sanyo fake caps?

Yes, I've read that those are not very reliable.
I will try to change them all.

It's weird to see that most of the famous brands of TV and LCD's are using "cheap" capacitors. As far as I remember, I've never seen "cheap" capacitors on famous brands of computer PSU's and motherboards...