Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

[Uranium-235]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

now, the part about "giving your CPU too much juice"... that's going to be in the power supply. those caps will be used as hold-up caps... if there's a drop in input voltage, these caps will let a little "juice" out to keep the output voltage at nominal.

unless its BAD. One thing you can get from a bad cap (depending on what kind of circuit its in) is too much voltage bleed. dosen't necessarily apply to vrm caps since most of them are in parallel

[JarettM]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

in a way it CAN be true. If you have a bad cap giving your CPU too much juice and causing it to run hotter...some motherboard are set to downthrottle if the CPU gets hot. so in SOME instances it can increase performance...by fixing a larger problem

a majority of the caps on a motherboard aren't working the way you think they're working.

capacitors work as storage with DC, but can act as a short to AC. most of the caps on a motherboard that you're seeing are used as filtering, i.e. taking out noise, voltage spikes, etc. from the different signals running around a motherboard. the traces are so close together, "noise on the lines" is highly probable. we don't want that, because those spikes or noise can be seen as data, or it can throw a frequency off by quite a bit, causing instability.

now, the part about "giving your CPU too much juice"... that's going to be in the power supply. those caps will be used as hold-up caps... if there's a drop in input voltage, these caps will let a little "juice" out to keep the output voltage at nominal.

[ben7]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

No... but it prevents your board from dying entirely. However, if you were experiencing random crashes, replacing the blown caps should fix that.

Almost a year ago my Moms computer started to get unstable, and randomly crash. Also, a year before we had put more ram into the computer to help speed it up, but it had gotten slow again. So then i found out there were 4 bad Nichicon HN caps right on the cpu power bus, no wonder why it would crash so much! Replaced with KZE and all is well again! Of course then I looked into the bad capacitor stuff on the web, and found this site!

-Ben

[cufarmer]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Zat right.
I'm a Retired Electronics Tech. My specialty was electronic control systems for Nuclear Power plants.
I was also a Certified Nuclear Reactor Operator and I retired as a QA Inspector.
Did PC's on the side since '95 and since retiring [10 years ago] I've been doing actual -component- level repair on motherboards.
I got into it because it's easy compared to what I used to do.
-
You come off like a typical 'board swapper' tech. That's fine but that's not what we do here.
We actually fix the boards. That's our 'thing'.
-
If you actually think a A cool heatsink is a -definite- indication that the cooling fan is doing its job then we have teenagers here you should be listening to because they know more at component level than you do.
.

Thats nice. I'm a plumber and I have an AA in IT. I have not been doing this very long at all, and yes, I am a "board swapper".

I dont think it takes nuclear science degrees and reactor experience to work on these things, but I do value yalls experience. If some one's journey in the computer industry (even 25 years worth) never takes them in this direction, it does not mean thier education and experience is worth less than another's as a whole (in my opinion).

Interesting topic though.

[dumpystig]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Hahahaha
That was in the 70's...
.

Yeah, you really are old...

Wierd thing is I only read the thread where you posted the popcorn thingy about an hour before I read this thread....

[Uranium-235]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

in a way it CAN be true. If you have a bad cap giving your CPU too much juice and causing it to run hotter...some motherboard are set to downthrottle if the CPU gets hot. so in SOME instances it can increase performance...by fixing a larger problem

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Hahahaha
That was in the 70's...
.

[dumpystig]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Yes please. Multi-coloured for me if you still have any...

I also cross pollinated Indian corn and pop corn to get multi-colored pop corn.
That takes two growing seasons to get the end product.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Popcorn anyone?

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Also, a dead giveaway of poor thermal transfer is high variation between idle and load temps and fast temperature changes, if the processor goes up or down 20 degrees suddenly then it's very likely that the thermal transfer is poor... I've actually had a chip where the thermal material inside the CPU itself, under the IHS was the cause.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

I'm no novice to this computer game.
I built my first PC in ~1983 and I've been building them professionally ever since.
I lost count of how many systems I've built and run over the years, since that first system.

I use nothing but AMD processors and usually the OEM heatsink and fan.
Experience tells me that the OEM cooler is more than sufficient to keep the CPU chip running nice and cool, as long as the heatsink and fan are kept clean. (AMD CPU's run cooler than Intel CPU's anyway)

A cool heatsink indicates that the cooling fan is doing its job, not that the heat transfer between the cpu and heatsink is failing. As a professional, I would know the difference.

Right now, after the PC has been on for about six hours, 'Speedfan" tells me that my CPU core temp is 47°C.

Cheers Mates!
The Doctor

Zat right.
I'm a Retired Electronics Tech. My specialty was electronic control systems for Nuclear Power plants.
I was also a Certified Nuclear Reactor Operator and I retired as a QA Inspector.
Did PC's on the side since '95 and since retiring [10 years ago] I've been doing actual -component- level repair on motherboards.
I got into it because it's easy compared to what I used to do.
-
You come off like a typical 'board swapper' tech. That's fine but that's not what we do here.
We actually fix the boards. That's our 'thing'.
-
If you actually think a A cool heatsink is a -definite- indication that the cooling fan is doing its job then we have teenagers here you should be listening to because they know more at component level than you do.
.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Experience tells me that the OEM cooler is more than sufficient to keep the CPU chip running nice and cool, as long as the heatsink and fan are kept clean.

But never trust customers to keep them clean.

A cool heatsink indicates that the cooling fan is doing its job, not that the heat transfer between the cpu and heatsink is failing.

A cool heatsink with 70C core temps means the heat transfer is indeed poor.

Right now, after the PC has been on for about six hours, 'Speedfan" tells me that my CPU core temp is 47°C.

SpeedFan isn't accurate on modern hardware. It worked in the P4/AXP days, but no longer. Try CoreTemp. And also, idle temps are irrelevant. Load temps are what counts... is it more likely for your system to crash doing nothing, or is it more likely to crash when you're running heavy software?

[ThePCDoctor]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

I'm no novice to this computer game.
I built my first PC in ~1983 and I've been building them professionally ever since.
I lost count of how many systems I've built and run over the years, since that first system.

I use nothing but AMD processors and usually the OEM heatsink and fan.
Experience tells me that the OEM cooler is more than sufficient to keep the CPU chip running nice and cool, as long as the heatsink and fan are kept clean. (AMD CPU's run cooler than Intel CPU's anyway)

A cool heatsink indicates that the cooling fan is doing its job, not that the heat transfer between the cpu and heatsink is failing. As a professional, I would know the difference.

Right now, after the PC has been on for about six hours, 'Speedfan" tells me that my CPU core temp is 47°C.

Cheers Mates!
The Doctor

[mariushm]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Correct.

Cold heatsinks means either mean either it's incorrectly mounted (so cpu heat isn't transferred to the fins) or the heatsink+fan is oversized for the cpu.

When I'm not overclocking, I actually prefer to keep my computer more silent by lowering the rpm of the fans.

From the cpu's point of view, it makes no difference if it runs at 30-35c (85-95F) or 50c - most modern cpus throttle themselves down if they reach about 60-62C or power off the system. I'd rather be able to sleep at night with the computer running than keep the cpu pointlessly cold.

The only thing that people have to pay attention to when they make such decisions is protection of the surrounding vrm circuitry and capacitors. Some motherboards assume the air pushed down by the stock cpu fans will move over the vrm and keep it reasonably cool. With modern heatsinks with lots of heatpipes and fans blowing air horizontally through the fins, the vrm may overheat when overclocking.



just to show what i mean, i have this exact cooler, Zerotherm FZ120. Without airflow from the other fans in the case and on a cheaper motherboard without heatpipes on it, the vrm may overheat with such cooler.

PS. I've had about 5 different systems in my life - the only one I was really concerned about heat was one with an Asus P5ND2-SLI motherboard:



Without overclocking, when playing games the red heatsink would reach temperatures close to 70c... by design, they assumed fans would blow air down on the board and automatically cool down that heatsink as well. Even online reviews mentioned this at the time that it's a bad idea to run it without fan.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Twice, when I've needed to Recap a mobo, I've written to "BadCaps.net" and requested the right caps for the job. I trust that I am always sent the proper caps for the job.
So far, so good. None of my replaced caps has ever failed (yet).

Maybe it's due to the new caps I just put in my own computer (with MSI mobo) or the fact that I gave the entire inside of my computer a very GOOD cleaning, but my CPU is running cooler, the fan is running quieter and the whole system just seems to have perked up. I did clean my CPU heatsink and fan and I installed new thermal compound to the CPU chip. That had not been done since I built this computer, several years ago now.
The best part is that I don't get BSOD's or crashes any more.

Now if I lay my Digital Temperature gauge, (my index finger) on top of my CPU heatsink, I detect almost no heat at all.
There is NO component inside any PC, that should run too hot to touch. It something makes you say "Ouch!!!" then it's too hot.
I could go on and on about how I eliminate heat from my PC components, but this is not the forum for that.

Cheers Mates!
The Doctor

Actually heatsinks get warm because they are removing heat from something.
A cold one -can- mean the heatsink isn't removing heat from the chip.
.

[ThePCDoctor]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

Twice, when I've needed to Recap a mobo, I've written to "BadCaps.net" and requested the right caps for the job. I trust that I am always sent the proper caps for the job.
So far, so good. None of my replaced caps has ever failed (yet).

Maybe it's due to the new caps I just put in my own computer (with MSI mobo) or the fact that I gave the entire inside of my computer a very GOOD cleaning, but my CPU is running cooler, the fan is running quieter and the whole system just seems to have perked up. I did clean my CPU heatsink and fan and I installed new thermal compound to the CPU chip. That had not been done since I built this computer, several years ago now.
The best part is that I don't get BSOD's or crashes any more.

Now if I lay my Digital Temperature gauge, (my index finger) on top of my CPU heatsink, I detect almost no heat at all.
There is NO component inside any PC, that should run too hot to touch. It something makes you say "Ouch!!!" then it's too hot.
I could go on and on about how I eliminate heat from my PC components, but this is not the forum for that.

Cheers Mates!
The Doctor

[Phaihn]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

well im a bit strapped for cash right now so i can only do so much as for the other board not the P4 the celeron with the big caps i installed windows on it and it only has a 8 mb video adaptor lol uhg whats the biggest pci vid card you can get?

oh and about those caps i put on there i had ordered rubycon caps but the caps that are on there is what they gave me i wasnt happy about it.

[Phaihn]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

That's a P4 board. Those are VRM capacitors. Likely Nichicon HM. Your replacements are Chemicon KMG, and are inadequate for use as VRM capacitors.

Let's take a look at specifications.

Nichicon HM 6.3V 3300uF has the following specifications:

ESR: 0.012 ohms
Ripple limit: 2800 mA @ 100kHz

KMG has the following specifications:
ESR: 0.038 ohms
Ripple limit: 907 mA @ 100kHz (840 mA at 120kHz)

When selecting a replacement, you generally want the same or less ESR, the same or more ripple. The KMG handles less than a third of the ripple that HM can handle, and has over 3 times the ESR.

Good replacements for HM include newer HM (there was a manufacturing defect with older batches), Rubycon MBZ/MCZ (discontinued), Sanyo/Suncon WG, Panasonic FL/FJ.

I would also replace all of the HM capacitors, not just the failed ones. Just because they haven't visibly failed doesn't mean they aren't on their way.

well im a bit strapped for cash right now so i can only do so much as for the other board not the P4 the celeron with the big caps i installed windows on it and it only has a 8 mb video adaptor lol uhg whats the biggest pci vid card you can get?

[yyonline]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

pictures.

That's a P4 board. Those are VRM capacitors. Likely Nichicon HM. Your replacements are Chemicon KMG, and are inadequate for use as VRM capacitors.

Let's take a look at specifications.

Nichicon HM 6.3V 3300uF has the following specifications:

ESR: 0.012 ohms
Ripple limit: 2800 mA @ 100kHz

KMG has the following specifications:
ESR: 0.038 ohms
Ripple limit: 907 mA @ 100kHz (840 mA at 120kHz)

When selecting a replacement, you generally want the same or less ESR, the same or more ripple. The KMG handles less than a third of the ripple that HM can handle, and has over 3 times the ESR.

Good replacements for HM include newer HM (there was a manufacturing defect with older batches), Rubycon MBZ/MCZ (discontinued), Sanyo/Suncon WG, Panasonic FL/FJ.

I would also replace all of the HM capacitors, not just the failed ones. Just because they haven't visibly failed doesn't mean they aren't on their way.

[Phaihn]

Re: Does replacing bad cap give much of a performance boost?

ok thanks and those pictures are of my first 2 motherboard recaps.
im going to go pick up 5 more caps for the first board one of the old caps went if i were to replace the rest that would be 21 more caps to replace so i am just going to do the ones cloaser to the cpu and hope for the best for now at least.