I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

[dood]

I didn't want to stink up any of the other PSU threads with my problems...

Basically, my new system is power hungry, and none of the PSUs I have are sufficient.

Here's the specs-

MSI 870A-G46 Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 970 Black Edition (3.5ghz)
2x 4gb DDR3
MSI N460GTX Hawk
750gb Western Digital Black 7200RPM
2tb Seagate Green 5900RPM

As I've stated before, my 420w PC Power And Cooling PSU wasn't enough to keep the system stable. I substituted a Logisys "560w" PSU, which was running okay 'til today. System rebooted in-game, and now will get to various levels of booting up before spontaneously rebooting (no BSOD).

The PCP&C supply is rated higher on +12v than the Logisys, but lower on 3.3 and 5v. The Logisys has stable voltage on 3.3 and 5v, but the 12v line drops to 11.67 under load. So, I need something beefy on all accounts.

Obviously, I'm not going to run out and buy a 1kw PSU, because that'd just be overkill. What I'm looking for is modular, decent build quality, and under $100. It needs to support 8pin aux connector and at least 2 6pin PCIe connectors.

I was looking at this - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703035 , but I don't really like the color, since I have a black case.

Any suggestions?

[dood]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

Here are the specs of the two PSUs I currently have-

PC Power and Cooling Silencer 420 ATX

+3.3V - 20A
+5V - 20A
+12v - 30A
-12V - 0.8A
+5Vs - 2.5A

Max on +3.3 and +5 combined - 130w

Logisys PS575XBK (575w max, 450 continuous)

+3.3V - 38A
+5V - 40A
+12V - 25A
-5V - 0.5A
-12V - 0.8A
+5VSB - 2.0A

Max +3.3 and +5 Combined - 250W

[mariushm]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

Oh man, you substituted a decent psu with a SHITTY power supply.

The Logisys power supplies are very, very old designs, from the times of Pentium 3 and equivalents, and LIE about their capability.

You had at best 150w on 3.3v+5v and about 150-250w on 12v, and probably the reason why you had so little on 12v is because the voltage is controlled by the amount of load on 3.3v and 5v. There's very little load on 3.3v and 5v so the 12v never gets a chance to go up to the right value.

Now your system probably uses about 80-100 watts when idle, in windows, or when watching a movie and at most about 220-250 watts in games or when doing something serious. This is before efficiency losses inside the psu, so with about 80% efficiency, you must get at least a 350 watt power supply.

The modern systems use 12v a lot - both the cpu and video card rely on 12v to run, so you need a modern psu design, with good amps on 12v and less 3.3v and 5v - you can see the old design of the logisys in the fact that it advertises 40 amps on 5v - it's pointless on modern systems.

The new pc power and cooling power supplies are no longer made in US or custom nice designs, they were bought by OCZ and they're OK, decent, designs but standard OEM ones from HIGH POWER, FSP, Seasonic etc - what I'm trying to say is that you're just paying extra for the brand name and you get the same insides as power supplies from the original OEM manufacturers.

For example, the 600w version of the Silencer MKIII is based on the Seasonic S12II Bronze platform and it's reviewed here: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory4&reid=263

The equivalent from Seasonic for your 500w is 60$ : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151094 - you get almost the SAME psu for 20$ less.

If you want to go cheap, these one will really be enough:

40 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139026
50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104954
50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371023
62 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104132
60 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151094 (I'd go for this one for your system)
80 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151095 (beefier, partially modular)


etc

later edit: dmill89 is TOTALLY WRONG, you don't need 650-850w, even 430w is enough. The video card will use at most about 180 watts and the cpu would probably suck about 100-150 watts, so in the unrealistic case both would be loaded to the maximum a total of about 300 watts on 12v (25a) - even the 430w corsair has 28A on 12v. And it can actually handle more, just will slightly go out of specs - not even as much out as that logisys with 11.65v.

[dmill89]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

With what I came up with on extreme PSU calculator your system draws around 500w under full load (everything at 100%) so I wouldn't recommend anything less than a good 650w and preferably a 750w or 850w to give some overhead for future upgrades.

Here are some recommendations:
CORSAIR Professional Series HX650 (CMPSU-650HX) 650W = $110 ($90 after rebate) (seasonic built, UCC caps) [modular]
Antec High Current Gamer Series HCG-750 750W = $100 (nice Delta built unit, according to the review on jonnyguru caps are all UCC and Rubycon)
PC Power and Cooling Silencer 760W = $120 ($100 after rebate) (Like all silencers it's a Seasonic built unit, all UCC caps )
ENERMAX NAXN 82+ ENM750AWT 750W = $120 (Caps are a combination of Panasonic, UCC, and Samaxon) [modular]
Seasonic SS-850HT 850W = $125
Antec High Current Gamer Series HCG-900 900W = $130 (the HCG750's big brother should you need the extra power.)

Any of these should do much better and last much longer than that gutless wonder Logisys "575w". I know you wanted modular but that does add to the price (I markeed the PSUs that are moduylar with "[modular]) so not all the ones listed are.

[ratdude747]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

be careful with antec... they like to make revision 1 of a product a nice version to send for reviews and make revision 2 a piece of crap that they sell to everybody else..

[dmill89]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

later edit: dmill89 is TOTALLY WRONG, you don't need 650-850w, even 430w is enough. The video card will use at most about 180 watts and the cpu would probably suck about 100-150 watts, so in the unrealistic case both would be loaded to the maximum a total of about 300 watts on 12v (25a) - even the 430w corsair has 28A on 12v. And it can actually handle more, just will slightly go out of specs - not even as much out as that logisys with 11.65v.

I'll admit my numbers are slightly inflated (it is very rare that all components are at 100% simultaneously). However they were obtained via a commercial PSU calculator given the specs dood listed. If a 430w would actually handle this system why couldn't the PCP&C 420w handle it. PCP&C does not overrate their PSUs and most of them are actually underrated. I don't protest that a 500w PSU could handle this system and a really good 450w might as well but I never like to cut it that close with PSUs personally and unless the budget is really tight it is beneficial to go a little on the high side to allow for future upgrades. Also PSUs produce less power as the electrolytics age so while a PSU that just meets minimum requirements can run the system today it may have trouble doing so in a year or two.

[mariushm]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

He never said that PC P&C 420w was not enough, just that it was unstable.
That could be explained by bad capacitors for example, overheating etc. These review pictures show them with OST RLS capacitors, which are known to be somewhat bad.

Even in the case that it was perfectly fine, it's still a slightly older design. Newer designs are better, and even the Corsair 430w is slightly rated below what it can do, to achieve that 80+ bronze spec - it will actually do more than 430w before it shuts down.

[dood]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

Well, here's the deal. The reason I swapped in the logisys was because I was having some crashes and general stability issues with the PCP&C supply. As soon as I swapped in the logisys, those issues went away, until today. So, I put the PCP&C back in place, and guess what? No issues. Been playing Train Simulator 2012 (which loads both CPU and GPU to about 80%) and it's been stable, for the last hour or so. I don't know what the issue was with it the first time around... And, guess what? Under that heavy load, the +12v rail only dips to 11.96V (with no audible drop in fan RPM like was heard with the Logisys).

I'm really baffled why I had problems with the PCP&C supply the first time around. I know it's a better supply, but my experience originally showed it to be unstable.

I'd still like to upgrade, though, to get some breathing room. Also, I need to get my Kill-A-Watt back from my brother so I can see what the draw is under load.

[mariushm]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

Open it up and check the capacitors - you don't have any warranty on it anymore so you don't risk anything.

[dood]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

Open it up and check the capacitors - you don't have any warranty on it anymore so you don't risk anything.

Already did... they're all OST, none visibly failed, but that doesn't mean anything.

[dood]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

Alright, here's the Kill-A-Watt readings

Idle - 146W
Load - 309W

This is at ~122 volts

Load was 86% CPU usage, 97% GPU usage.

[c_hegge]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

ENERMAX NAXN 82+ ENM750AWT 750W = $120 (Caps are a combination of Panasonic, UCC, and Samaxon) [modular]

It only uses Panny and CC on the primary. Secondaries are all Samxon GF series. Avoid.

[Scenic]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151095 ?

For some weird reason, the 520W version costs the same

Oh and if you want to really torture your graphics card and CPU (maximum load), get furmark and coredamage

Take the warnings seriously though.. Furmark is the only tool I've tested that managed to get my graphics card way over 90°C with the fan on full blast.
Similar story on Core Damage.. The only tool that managed to push my Q6600 to 70°C and beyond with the fan going berserk. No other benchmark or game got it that high before.. was pretty scary

I'd recommend not to try any of those 2 programs while the Logicrap is in your system.. unless you like fireworks and buying new hardware

edit: for accurate temperature readings (at least for the CPU): http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/
It directly reads the digital thermal sensors in the CPU, instead of relying on (or deliberately using) motherboard sensors

[dood]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

That one looks like a winner, Scenic. I'm not a fan of multiple 12v rails, but I would assume since the major 12v draws are from CPU and PCIe connectors, they'd have them balanced well internally.

[dmill89]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

I'd definitely second the recommendation of the SeaSonic M12II 620. It is a very solid PSU. Every Multi rail PSU I've seen recently does a pretty good job of splitting the rails evenly. Some SeaSonics aren't actually multi rail for example the S12II is actual a single rail PSU but is advertised as a multi rail. As long as you aren't planning any major upgrades a 620w is more than sufficient for that system.

[dood]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

I'm not planning anything major, since this is what I upgraded to at Christmas. I think this system will be in this configuration (barring any hardware failures) for at least a year or two.

Since the PCP&C supply seems to be doing fine for now, I'll keep running it until payday and then order the Seasonic unit.

Thanks all

[Scenic]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

according to the HardOCP review, this is actually one of those single-rail models labelled as a dual rail unit.

It'll do 620W if needed, but it's pushing it a bit far for my liking (from what I've seen in that review).
Then again.. that's on 120V.. over here on 230-240V, things might look a bit different.

[ratdude747]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

AFAIK PSUs do worse on 120v...

[Scenic]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

That's what I meant. On 120V in the review, ~603W is pushing it pretty hard.. complete with efficiency nosedive (83.something%) and well over 60°C exhaust air temps..

Results would be probably a lot better on 230/240V.. but then again that's nitpicking in this case, as dood's system won't come anywhere near that amount of load in the current config (and possibly also with some upgrades down the road)

I've just looked up what a GTX460 pulls (roughly).. seems to be around 160W for the reference model. Combined with a Quadcore and not too much else in the system, that PSU would be quite overkill.

I'm currently running a good ol' overclocked Core 2 Quad Q6600 with a HD6870, which pulls ~151W. Combined with the overclocked CPU that should kinda end up in the same load... and I'm running this system off of a Seasonic S12II 430W (the older non-bronze version)

Haven't had any problems so far, and the same PSU happily powered my previous graphics card (GTX260 .. roughly 180W) with no problems.

[mariushm]

Re: I need a new PSU! (yes, another PSU thread)

Yeah, the efficiency is lower on 120v and the pfc is also different.

There's also the issue of your house wiring, which must be thicker for 120v... 220-240v is simply better.