3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

[Behemot]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

You're not going to make a fortune on them...

Anyway, lot of people did not want to invest in them because of the price before. Now I could provide e. g. half the price which could be reasonable even for more crappy PSUs. So I think I may actually get some sales in the long term

Yes, a lot of PSUs have 16V 3300uF caps in 10mm, but how many of them are actually on the 12v rail? Of those PSUs, how many of them can you not squeeze in a 12.5mm cap? Not many.

I've re-capped some Fortrons with 10V 3300uF caps in 10mm, so far, I've used all Panasonic FK 6.3V 3300uF caps and they have a better rating than the Teapos and the RS. Heck, even Teapo SC is rated better than Samxon RS. If I can get UCC KY for 0.70 a piece, that's still a lot better than Panasonic FK, which go from 85 cents to over a dollar.

You are omitting several critical facts in here:

1. it is usually not designed for ultra-low ESR and using them can cause great deal of troubles; FK are much closer to ultra-low
2. RS have longer rated lifetime
3. show me FK in 3300 uF for 16 V

And no, you are not right. There are tens of PSUs (mostly mainstream and high-end units) where you won't squeeze D12,5 caps. Or maybe you squeeze one, but definitelly not six. I don't like pushing it inside like maniac, because quite often two things can happen:

1. you will rip the whole cap from the board
2. you will pull electrode out of the cap, effectivelly destroying it as it looses impermeability

Not mentioning those bloody modern Fortrons that have D8 caps and you even have troubles squeezing D10 caps inside!

It may be reasonable before, but now, when we are getting RS for less than 0,2 USD, why make things complicated when you can make them easy?

[mockingbird]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

it is usually not designed for ultra-low ESR and using them can cause great deal of troubles; FK are much closer to ultra-low

Here are the two FK series I often use in Fortron repairs:
6.3 3300uF 10x30 2140 0.025
16v 2200uF 10x30 2140 0.025

The 10mm RS have a 4000 hour load life, the Panasonic FK have 4000 hours. Not that I think it really means anything.

There's no 10mm 16v part.

I'll tell you why: I don't trust Man Yue. I've never had a problem with their stuff so far, but it should be noted that all of their other series so far besides GA/GC/GD and RS are unreliable.

The KY is appealing to me because it's a very reliable part from a trusted manufacturer, and it's an excellent series in terms of ripple rating and ESR. I don't think 0.02x is too low for a pi filter. So far I've never had a problem with that kind of ESR.

Why don't you contact Farnell and see if Nichicon is willing to make a custom HE series (HE is KY equivalent) in 10mm. Farnell has far better prices for equivalent Nichicon parts than Digikey.

[Behemot]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

The 10mm RS have a 4000 hour load life

Nope, it has 5000 hours rated life.

I'll tell you why: I don't trust Man Yue. I've never had a problem with their stuff so far, but it should be noted that all of their other series so far besides GA/GC/GD and RS are unreliable.

I never got problem with GT and RT as well, all are low-esr long-life products. Actually, to be honest, I have seen only GF failed and heard about some old 400/450 V cap of unspecified series failing. Nothing else. What I know, they may have had problems many years ago, but for some 8 years now at minimum they should produce good caps only (besides GF; on the other hand, Chemi-Con KZG, familiar?). And the X-CON caps are leading caps on the market in terms of capacity (up to 4 times higher in the same can than competitive polymers).

Why don't you contact Farnell and see if Nichicon is willing to make a custom HE series (HE is KY equivalent) in 10mm. Farnell has far better prices for equivalent Nichicon parts than Digikey.

Why don't you? To be honest, it never even came to my mind. Whatever I have been looking for elsewhere than Digi-Key has been more expensive every time (ir I haven't been able to find it, their e-shop is terible). For that reason, I am not even visiting the other e-shops for some time now.

[Behemot]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

Just to not let it die, I have money in some 939 Opterons ATM, but as soon as I will dig them back, I will order the Samxons, don't wory

Would be good if Topcat would join us. Anyway, who from the ppl interested has no import taxes/VAT from Hong Kong and/or China? Or at least lowest one? I have 21 % VAT.

Would be good if the initial shipment would be overtaken by somebody who will not have to pay any extra on that and than he will resend it to the rest of people interested…

[trodas]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

RS Samxon cap is a basic cap model, not really meant to serve in switching PSUs. That is the reason for the lower price.
As far, as the PSU recapping goes, d10 caps for 16V was always a tough problem. Looks like there is a possible solution Just gather enough guys.

[Behemot]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

Been waiting when you'll pop up actually

I don't know what's your definition of basic, but mine is general purpose and RS is far in front of that. Compared to NCC KY, RS have generaly aprox. 14 % lower ripple current. That is very acceptable I think, considering the fact that if KY is present, than only in 2200 uF capacity. With RS on the same place, you have very much the same ripple current, but better capacity…

As was stated here, in future, I will also aim for KYA in 3300 uF. But for now, since I have nothing but rising pile of PSUs to recap, and people asking me to recap, I need ANYTHING and RSs are very good for me.

If I won't find anybody willing to order it to his country, I will just order it myself and than you guys will buy it from me, I don't see problem in that I have made some investments so when the money comes back, I can order the whole 4800pcs package alone.

[SIDMX]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

Count me in with $100 usd worth of RS's

%VAT from HK or China is a big NO NO in my country, i think the best option would be someone in USA.

[momaka]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

Cool, but when is this all planned for?
I think I may be able to contribute with $50 to $100.

[Behemot]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

I may have some funding soon, ATM I am waiting for reply to my questions regarding payment methods and such.

What are your import taxes/VAT from China momaka?

[momaka]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

What are your import taxes/VAT from China momaka?

Never had to ship anything (considerable) from abroad, so I have absolutely no idea.

[Behemot]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

Would you mind looking/asking around?

[Behemot]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

I have all required informations to order the caps now. I have asked Chris whether he is interested and what are his import terms to US. That means whether he would be willing to take the big package and distribute to us if it would be the cheapest option for all of us.

[Behemot]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

Ufff, I'd never think such a deal may mean that much work, it's much more complicated than buying stuff at eBay Anyway, as nobody else was interested, Chris is not responding as well and they are taking it seriously at Man Yue and want all the stuff like my byz registration and such, I think I will take it here to CZech republic, process and than send to you guys.

Prepare yourself to 21 % increase in price because of VAT and some stuff for shipping and so. Whoever showed interest up to now gets this price with no other increase than VAT, shipping and such expenses. Whoever is gonna show interest after this post will pay higher price including my margin.

[SIDMX]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

Cool, hope they honor their word about 6-week lead time.

[mockingbird]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

Just thought I'd give you a heads up,

Mouser seems to be stocking a 16V 3300uF cap in 10mm x 40mm. It's UCC KMG series, a general series cap, but judging from the height and the spec sheet, it may be on par with the equivalent Samxon RS.

661-EKMGG160ELL332MJ

[Behemot]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

It's not a thousand miles close.

KMG 3300 uF D12,5x25: 1170 mA
vs
RS 3300 uD D12,5x35: 2406 mA

Thats more than twice as much with 40 % larger can. KMG is no way close to low-ESR. Also they have only 1000 hours endurance, don't you think that is way too low? RS have 5000 hours in D10.

[mockingbird]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

You have the spec wrong.

....Manyue confirms their rating at 1675 ripple, 0.041 ESR

Seeing as how the KMG series cap is 10x40mm, it probably has an equal ripple rating to the Samxon RS cap, seeing as how the 16V 3300uF 12.5x25 KMG cap's ripple is 1170. I don't know about the ESR, but I'm pretty sure the cap would work just fine in a pinch for the 12V rail pi filter. All in all, both the RS series and the KMG series cap are otherwise unremarkable except for their miniaturization.

As for endurance, assuming the KMG cap is 2000 hours, that is more than adequate for the application.

Now you understand why I backed out of the order once you switched to Samxon RS?

[SIDMX]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

...Mouser seems to be stocking a 16V 3300uF cap in 10mm x 40mm. It's UCC KMG series, a general series cap, but judging from the height and the spec sheet, it may be on par with the equivalent Samxon RS.
661-EKMGG160ELL332MJ

Looking at the KMG datasheet I see two caps with same can size but totally different RC, so don't think it is possible to make an "educated guess" but I believe (as you) that they should be pretty close or equal.

It's not a thousand miles close..

Looking at RS datasheet the "confirmed" RC of 1675mA makes sense to me, RS 10x20=1228, 10x25=1447 so every 5mm increase = 200+ mA increase.

...Seeing as how the KMG series cap is 10x40mm, it probably has an equal ripple rating to the Samxon RS cap, seeing as how the 16V 3300uF 12.5x25 KMG cap's ripple is 1170. I don't know about the ESR, but I'm pretty sure the cap would work just fine in a pinch for the 12V rail pi filter. All in all, both the RS series and the KMG series cap are otherwise unremarkable except for their miniaturization

Agreed in fact I believe it is the same guessing both ways, because even if we know RS's ESR, most of the time will be used to replace GP caps like Capxon KM/Fuhjyyu TN/OST RLG, etc.. whose ESR ratings are unknown and the same applies to KMG, so unless you need to replace a cap that match RS rating i think theres no other advantage over the KMGs (except for prices ) ...don't you think?

edit: RS's endurance is better too.

[mockingbird]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

The money wasn't an issue for me if I'm getting UCC KY class caps, even if the quantity was far less than RS. I just don't like the idea of re-capping everything in the PSU with very high-class caps, and then using near-GP quality Samxon caps for the 12V rail. They'll *probably* work a treat, but to be honest, they're nowhere near as capable as the premium caps.

I should be getting some info about the ESR and ripple spec for the custom KMG cap in the near future.

[SIDMX]

Re: 3300uF low-ESR caps suitable to PSUs in D10mm - may be possible!!

The money wasn't an issue for me if I'm getting UCC KY class caps, even if the quantity was far less than RS. I just don't like the idea of re-capping everything in the PSU with very high-class caps, and then using near-GP quality Samxon caps for the 12V rail

Agreed on the quality differences but are they really that bad?
I haven't used samxon caps, but willing to try because I read here that are ok when replacing GP caps.

I should be getting some info about the ESR and ripple spec for the custom KMG cap in the near future.

That would be good